The Evolution of Jerry Jones The Cowboys GM In The Red Garrett Era

[perrykemp]

Good post X. I also believe we have seen some progress, but the "Jerrry Sux" Club wont acknowledge it. What makes it hard for some to see, or accept, is that the PROCESS has been slow and the trainee HC factor make it seem pretty much a non existent.

Personally, I think Red _ should be gone after this year if we dont see significant improvement. I like the good things he's done, but it still comes down to wins, and 4 1/2 yrs will have been long enough to see if we have actually turned a corner. Jerry prob keeps Red no matter the outcome of the season, but at some point the bottom line has to factor in.

I agree it seems like there has been progress, however, are we just talking semantics?

At the end of the day the team hasn't broken .500 since 2009 -- going on 5 years now.

The results on the field are the ultimate true sign of progress.

I guess I can console myself that Jerry has been failing less spectacularly than before.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I agree it seems like there has been progress, however, are we just talking semantics?

At the end of the day the team hasn't broken .500 since 2009 -- going on 5 years now.

The results on the field are the ultimate true sign of progress.

I guess I can console myself that Jerry has been failing less spectacularly than before.

Hence my reference to "wins" and the "bottom line."

 

[slomoxn]

Good post X. I also believe we have seen some progress, but the "Jerrry Sux" Club wont acknowledge it. What makes it hard for some to see, or accept, is that the PROCESS has been slow and the trainee HC factor make it seem pretty much a non existent.

Personally, I think Red _ should be gone after this year if we dont see significant improvement. I like the good things he's done, but it still comes down to wins, and 4 1/2 yrs will have been long enough to see if we have actually turned a corner. Jerry prob keeps Red no matter the outcome of the season, but at some point the bottom line has to factor in.

Both of you seem to have the right idea on what is going on and what should happen moving forward if Garrett is unable to start actually winning; unfortunately Jerry will do what he wants in the end.

 

[xwalker]

Good post X. I also believe we have seen some progress, but the "Jerrry Sux" Club wont acknowledge it. What makes it hard for some to see, or accept, is that the PROCESS has been slow and the trainee HC factor make it seem pretty much a non existent.

Personally, I think Red _ should be gone after this year if we dont see significant improvement. I like the good things he's done, but it still comes down to wins, and 4 1/2 yrs will have been long enough to see if we have actually turned a corner. Jerry prob keeps Red no matter the outcome of the season, but at some point the bottom line has to factor in.

To me, this season and off-season is about taking an intentional step back in order to eventually take 2 steps forward. If they wanted to go all-in with an attempt to win as many games as possible in 2014, then they probably would have kept Ware and possibly re-signed Hatcher; however, common sense indicates that they were unlikely to be Super Bowl contenders even if they retained those players and maxed out the cap.

The focus in 2014 needs to be on building the roster and building some stability in the schemes, especially on defense. They need to set themselves up to peak in 2015. I'm not saying give up in 2014, but progress should be evaluated by the success of individual players within the schemes. The roster needs to progress such that at this time next year they are truly 1 or 2 players away from being legit contenders for the Super Bowl. They can then use money that they saved this year to get a top free agent or two and then top it off with another draft. Unlike many past years, they should just be adding talent and not having to replace aging or overpriced players.

The issue with Garrett is that they were under water when he became the Head Coach. It would have been easier to start new with an expansion team than the rebuild while under water with the salary cap. It has taken years to rectify the cap issues from players like Roy Williams, Barber, Gurode, Bigg, Sensabaugh, Newman and later from Ratliff, Ware, Spencer, Austin etc..

Even if everything does not come together in terms of wins in 2014, they should be in position at this time next year with some stability on the roster and within the schemes. That, IMO, would be the worst time to make changes to the coaching staff. I don't want to start over with another offensive or defensive scheme which would inevitably happen if they hire a new Head Coach.

 

[xwalker]

I agree it seems like there has been progress, however, are we just talking semantics?

At the end of the day the team hasn't broken .500 since 2009 -- going on 5 years now.

The results on the field are the ultimate true sign of progress.

I guess I can console myself that Jerry has been failing less spectacularly than before.

It see it like stock market investing. The past is only relevant in terms of learning from it; however, just because you are up or down in a stock is not really relevant to making a good decision in terms of buying or selling in the future. You buy or sell based on the future outlook, not what happened in the past.

 

[CyberB0b]

It see it like stock market investing. The past is only relevant in terms of learning from it; however, just because you are up or down in a stock is not really relevant to making a good decision in terms of buying or selling in the future. You buy or sell based on the future outlook, not what happened in the past.

The past is relevant as a trader to see if you are successful. It's easy for guys like you to look at the future and see hope, because it's an unknown quantity. Looking at the recent past is known failure, so you knowingly chose to disregard it.

 

[Aurican]

The thing is that when other gms take the blame they lose their jobs.

Real easy to take the blame when there are no consequences

 

[visionary]

Good post X. I also believe we have seen some progress, but the "Jerrry Sux" Club wont acknowledge it. What makes it hard for some to see, or accept, is that the PROCESS has been slow and the trainee HC factor make it seem pretty much a non existent.

Personally, I think Red _ should be gone after this year if we dont see significant improvement. I like the good things he's done, but it still comes down to wins, and 4 1/2 yrs will have been long enough to see if we have actually turned a corner. Jerry prob keeps Red no matter the outcome of the season, but at some point the bottom line has to factor in.

do you have something in your mind regarding what these phrases actually mean in tangible terms to you?
how many more wins?
playoffs?
playoff wins?

i am done with garretts talking
i want at least 1 playoff win to even start to think that garret can be a halfway decent HC (of course i would prefer NFC CG but baby steps)

 

[xwalker]

The past is relevant as a trader to see if you are successful. It's easy for guys like you to look at the future and see hope, because it's an unknown quantity. Looking at the recent past is known failure, so you knowingly chose to disregard it.

You either didn't read all of my post are you are unable to comprehend it.

 

[burmafrd]

To me, this season and off-season is about taking an intentional step back in order to eventually take 2 steps forward. If they wanted to go all-in with an attempt to win as many games as possible in 2014, then they probably would have kept Ware and possibly re-signed Hatcher; however, common sense indicates that they were unlikely to be Super Bowl contenders even if they retained those players and maxed out the cap.

The focus in 2014 needs to be on building the roster and building some stability in the schemes, especially on defense. They need to set themselves up to peak in 2015. I'm not saying give up in 2014, but progress should be evaluated by the success of individual players within the schemes. The roster needs to progress such that at this time next year they are truly 1 or 2 players away from being legit contenders for the Super Bowl. They can then use money that they saved this year to get a top free agent or two and then top it off with another draft. Unlike many past years, they should just be adding talent and not having to replace aging or overpriced players.

The issue with Garrett is that they were under water when he became the Head Coach. It would have been easier to start new with an expansion team than the rebuild while under water with the salary cap. It has taken years to rectify the cap issues from players like Roy Williams, Barber, Gurode, Bigg, Sensabaugh, Newman and later from Ratliff, Ware, Spencer, Austin etc..

Even if everything does not come together in terms of wins in 2014, they should be in position at this time next year with some stability on the roster and within the schemes. That, IMO, would be the worst time to make changes to the coaching staff. I don't want to start over with another offensive or defensive scheme which would inevitably happen if they hire a new Head Coach.

Expansion Team? wow you really are out to lunch there

 

[burmafrd]

I will believe Jerruh has changed after several years of not doing stupid things. Has not happened yet.

 

[iceberg]

do you have something in your mind regarding what these phrases actually mean in tangible terms to you?
how many more wins?
playoffs?
playoff wins?

i am done with garretts talking
i want at least 1 playoff win to even start to think that garret can be a halfway decent HC (of course i would prefer NFC CG but baby steps)

what exactly does this statement mean?

when he talks are you going to:
1. ignore it and never comment?
2. continue as you've done and keep on complaining about what he says?

in my experience when people say they're DONE with something, it's a useless statement cause they will continue on as they have before. taking things to the extreme, and staying there. statements like this are meaningless cause you'll do the same as you've always done.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

do you have something in your mind regarding what these phrases actually mean in tangible terms to you?
how many more wins?
playoffs?
playoff wins?

i am done with garretts talking
i want at least 1 playoff win to even start to think that garret can be a halfway decent HC (of course i would prefer NFC CG but baby steps)

I think it goes beyond numbers and wins at this point. See what XWalker posted about where we are this coming year and where we should be going into 2015.

I dont really have a problem with what he stated. However, while I generally like Red _ I think his in game issues are not necessarily something that are just rookie/trainee issues. This guy has lived football. He played college ball. He played in the NFL. He has coached at numerous levels in the NFL. The knucklehead stuff is inexcusable IMO. I think he does a good job of handling Jerry. A good job with the RKG stuff. A good job with the draft. Good organizational stuff.

Having said all that, I dont think he has been good as a game day HC. And this is something that I think a coach either has, or doesnt have. My gut says that if he hasnt shown he has IT by now, after 3 1/2 yrs, he most likely doesnt have IT. Its why I thot he should have been canned at the end of the season. The injuries were only a part of the problem IMO.

Now, if there really is good reason to believe that Red _ has things working to build a long term successful overall structure and roster it makes sense to stick with him this year rather than bring in a new HC and start the process all over again. And as XWalker said, even into 2015.

Now the problem with that is that if we are still floundering around with the process after this 2014 season you are set back still and a new HC could have already been putting something in place. My gut says this will be the most likely scenario because Red _ hasnt shown he has IT.

It would have been much better to can Red _ at the end of the season IMO and start over with a new HC in this roster cleanse/rebuild state we are in. Maybe things work out with Red, but I have serious doubts. There is just too much flux and stuff up in the air to really latch onto anything tangible as a hit or miss at this point. All one can do is watch and see how and why things unfold the way they do and then try to make a reasoned judgment.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Edited to add: Does anyone know why Marvin Lewis still has a job after all these years in Cincy? As Long as Marvin has had to build with his process he should have a perennial contender already and into the future. Patience there by the owner with the PROCESS has been a long wait of futility. Im afraid we'll have the same in Dallas with Red _ . A few good things here and there, but not in the overall program. And the Red _ apologists (the few) hang onto this solid foundation being built for the long term dream - primarily because they want to believe it, and its the only real hope in sight.

 

[CyberB0b]

You either didn't read all of my post are you are unable to comprehend it.

I understood it perfectly and responded in kind. Perhaps your stock market analogy was poor.

 

[xwalker]

I understood it perfectly and responded in kind. Perhaps your stock market analogy was poor.

You completely missed the part about learning from the past.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I understood it perfectly and responded in kind. Perhaps your stock market analogy was poor.

I think the stock market analogy is fine. The real question has to do with whether or not Red _ from this point on is a better option than starting over w/ a new HC. If Red _'s plan works and things fall into place then it will have been the best option for sooner results most likely. A new HC is a bigger gamble in some ways since he will be changing everything and most likley long term success will take longer. Its a gamble, just like stocks.

 

[jobberone]

Civility is your friend.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

As far as the stock market comparison... Say you decide to entrust your hard-earned million dollars to a hedge fund manager. Do you really choose an average performer who has made numerous blatant management mistakes over another manager with a proven track record of success?

Others can choose the middle-of-the-pack guy and hope he learns from his mistakes. I'll choose guy who has put the results on paper.

And to something WPB said... Maybe it was true at one time that hiring a new coach meant years of building and teaching before you could expect any success. I don't think that's true anymore. Look at Harbaugh in SF.

 

[jobberone]

There are no guarantees hiring a big football name helps you. Belichek was a failure before going to NE. Plenty of examples.

You either wait for it to develop or u keep firing one general for another.

When u hire ur new guy how long do u wait for it to develop.

There is no single answer to these questions.