The fact that Romo never won the big one

[kskboys]

List of Cowboys Hall of Fame QBs that won titles with defenses ranked as badly as those teams by points allowed:

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No he wasn't. Or more precisely, not with this team. That's the crux of the whole issue.

The problem is one of unrealistic expectations. Romo doesn't meet unrealistic expectations and is hated. But like I said, the expectations were unrealistic in the first place, because the organization was a mess the whole time from Jerry, Wade and/or Garrett on down, making the whole thing psychotic.

Romo was a good player. He had a lot of positives.

Romo was NOT NOT NOT a historically great, Hall of Fame tier player.

This is a super duper simple statement, but I feel like people somehow can't process the idea of a QB being really good but not great - the guy has to be either elite or a total bum as far as fans are concerned. But this is an insane way of looking at things.

Think about it: people are asking why Romo wasn't able to match the performance of QBs everyone agrees were historically great Hall of Famers, while playing with much worse defenses, and much worse coaches, even though we all agree that he wasn't a Hall of Famer. None of that makes any sense. The answer is right there.

Very well done.

 

[kskboys]

Who hates Romo? What are you talking about?
I think he gets undue love from the fan base and ownership. At the end of the day he made over 100 million dollars and gave us two playoff wins.
Having said that I’m not saying my previous statement then saying but... it’s an and. He saved our team’s *** for a while. His athleticism and escapability was amazing. Put up great stats, played through some crazy injuries. He is honestly remembered more for his losses and close misses. Seriously how many times did we lose to the Giants on Sunday night, how many times did we lose weeks 16&17 to not make the playoffs. How many boneheaded int’s did he have? He was Phillip Rivers lite. At least Rivers has more wins, more playoff success, more durability.

Rivers is a great QB and should make the HOF.

 

[Jake]

Don't care now. He's hanging with Danny White, a talented QB with nothing substantial to show for it.

I think both could've won something, but neither did (although not entirely a fault of their own).

 

[DandyDon1722]

Here are the defenses ranked by points allowed that past Cowboys Hall of Famers needed to win titles:

7 (1971)
8 (1977)
5 (1992)
2 (1993)
3 (1995)

Essentially we're arguing that Romo should have needed LESS help than Staubach and Aikman to win titles.. because he was better than them? Wait, what?

I purposely stayed away from this thread because I am simply worn out embarrassing the 5%ers on their Romo takes. In fact, I feel sorry for them. But I peaked in at the end of the thread and saw your posts.

Excellent work!

You're picking up the mantle for Percy Howard who is a savant when it comes to breaking down how team attributes relate to success. He doesn't post much but when he does it's very compelling and he used to stop Romo haters in their tracks - they wouldn't even respond to him. One thing I'd like to point out to you in your research that has always stuck with me and I learned this from Percy.

The most correlative statistic to offensive success in pro football is PPD or Points Per Drive. Our offenses with Romo were almost always top ten during his career.

The most correlative statistic to defensive success in pro football is Defensive Pass Rating. Our defenses with Romo were almost always bottom five during his career.

How much does this stat correlate to success?

Here are the leaders in Defensive Pass Rating in 2017.

1. Jacksonville
2. Minnesota
3. Los Angeles Chargers
4. Denver Broncos
5. Pittsburgh Stealers

Bottom Five in 2017

28. Indianapolis
29. Kansas City
30. New England
31. New York Giants
32 Tampa Bay

It's no fluke and it's not luck.

Is it possible to have a good season with a bottom ten DPR - Yes, you can outscore teams and have success in the regular season.
Is it possible to win playoff games - Very rare.
Super Bowls - virtually impossible.

You have to have an all time great to even get to the Super Bowl with a bad pass defense because you usually have to beat the 3 or 4 best QB's in your playoff runs and your quarterback has to carry you and be flawless. There is no margin for error. Brady is the outlier and he did it last year but you also have to take into consideration he plays for the greater coach in the history of the game.

In fact, there is only one QB in the history of the National Football League to win a Super Bowl with a bottom 5 DPR--

Aaron Rodgers.

I'm with you that Tony was never that guy. He wasn't Brady or Manning or Rodgers. I would also say he wasn't quite Jim Kelly or Warren Moon or Marino. But he sure as hell was light years ahead of Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien and Joe Flacco. You can also add Eli to that list who was the benefactor of two of the greatest defensive runs in NFL playoff history after average defensive regular seasons (15 PPG).

Staubach, Aikman, Parcells, Scott Pioli, Bill Polian and Sean Payton have all said Romo absolutely could win multiple Super Bowls, but not with the dysfunction of our organization. Yet there are geniuses in here who know more than them.

Finally, I saw an interview with Jerry and Forbes magazine yesterday and his biggest regret off the filed was handling the Tom Landry firing. His biggest on field regret was not taking advantage of Romo's career to win a Super Bowl and we as fans in the midst of a 25 year drought paid the price.

 

[Redball Express]

The fact that Romo never won a Superbowl? I find it hard to fault him for that, there are plenty of big time QBs who never won a Superbowl.

The fact he never got to a Superbowl?

The fact he never got to a NFC Championship game?

The fact that he only won 2 playoff games in 10 years?

He owns some of that.

Fran Tarkenton went 4 times..

lost them all.

Does not mean its his fault they lost.

But he had a hand in getting them there..

and in losing it.

same for Romo.

 

[Eddie]

Jerry Jones' fault. Solely !!!

 

[Whyjerry]

Some Romo. Mostly Jerry. I think the split is 90/10 Jerry.

Jerry did Romo no favors with coaches, the OL, bad trades, no defense and terrible drafts. That is the old Drunk’s legacy. He had a QB that could win and he gave him no help. Tony had a few bad plays along the way but he was good enough. Jerry ruined him.

 

[Big_D]

Coaching matters in the NFL, Romo had all the talent in the word but no real coach to show him the way.

It's unfortunate that Jerry brought in a couple clowns when the team could've really made a serious run for a few years at least.

 

[Big_D]

Some Romo. Mostly Jerry. I think the split is 90/10 Jerry.

Jerry did Romo no favors with coaches, the OL, bad trades, no defense and terrible drafts. That is the old Drunk’s legacy. He had a QB that could win and he gave him no help. Tony had a few bad plays along the way but he was good enough. Jerry ruined him.

That's the truth. You don't bring in a no experience OC??? Every single decision he made after Parcells left stunk and really screwed this team.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

No I don't fault Romo for that. He did his best, but he never had the front office invest in the trenches until the twilight years of his career.

 

[Diehardblues]

Here are the defenses ranked by points allowed that past Cowboys Hall of Famers needed to win titles:

7 (1971)
8 (1977)
5 (1992)
2 (1993)
3 (1995)

Essentially we're arguing that Romo should have needed LESS help than Staubach and Aikman to win titles.. because he was better than them? Wait, what?

Nicely done

 

[Diehardblues]

List of Cowboys Hall of Fame QBs that won titles with defenses ranked as badly as those teams by points allowed:

Error: file not found



No he wasn't. Or more precisely, not with this team. That's the crux of the whole issue.

The problem is one of unrealistic expectations. Romo doesn't meet unrealistic expectations and is hated. But like I said, the expectations were unrealistic in the first place, because the organization was a mess the whole time from Jerry, Wade and/or Garrett on down, making the whole thing psychotic.

Romo was a good player. He had a lot of positives.

Romo was NOT NOT NOT a historically great, Hall of Fame tier player.

This is a super duper simple statement, but I feel like people somehow can't process the idea of a QB being really good but not great - the guy has to be either elite or a total bum as far as fans are concerned. But this is an insane way of looking at things.

Think about it: people are asking why Romo wasn't able to match the performance of QBs everyone agrees were historically great Hall of Famers, while playing with much worse defenses, and much worse coaches, even though we all agree that he wasn't a Hall of Famer. None of that makes any sense. The answer is right there.

Well done Sean!!

 

[Diehardblues]

whats Marino,Kelly,Tarkenton and Moon's excuse.
Dan Fouts,Ken Anderson,John Hadl, Testaverde, McNabb, Kreig, Jim Hart, Esiason, Cunningham, Roman Gabriel. All chokers.

Yea it’s really sad how some fans characterize really good QB’s.

It’s like if they don’t win championships they’re all Bums. Very sad.

This list you provided Romo could very well fall into which is a respectable group with a few HOFamers.

It’s like how can they be great without playing for or winning a championship? Wait what..Thank goodness these fans aren’t voting for HOF inductees.

 

[DoctorChicken]

Was chatting on a Patriots forum yesterday talking about 4th qtr comebacks. One of them mentioned Romo and said he was the most underrated QB of all time. Other Pats fans started chiming in and agreeing.

But what do Patriots fans know about good QB play!?!?

 

[Big_D]

Here are the defenses ranked by points allowed that past Cowboys Hall of Famers needed to win titles:

7 (1971)
8 (1977)
5 (1992)
2 (1993)
3 (1995)

Essentially we're arguing that Romo should have needed LESS help than Staubach and Aikman to win titles.. because he was better than them? Wait, what?

Some seem under the impression that you can take a QB like Brady or Staubach etc., hand them Jerry and Garrett and they would still be winning titles? Something wrong with that. It definitely takes more than a QB. I have no doubt Romo could've won a championship or more if he played for a smart organization. But Jerry was a complete dumbazz.

 

[Diehardblues]

Some seem under the impression that you can take a QB like Brady or Staubach etc., hand them Jerry and Garrett and they would still be winning titles? Something wrong with that. It definitely takes more than a QB. I have no doubt Romo could've won a championship or more if he played for a smart organization. But Jerry was a complete dumbazz.

He just needed a better team for a period of time. He had IMO only two years with a formidable team in 2007 and 2014. It would have been nice to have had some consistency with the team for several years.

I thought the 2014 team was primed to contend for several years. But we never fielded that awesome trio on offense again with that OL.

 

[Diehardblues]

For years I always wanted a greater QB which I thought might could have overcome the dysfunctional situation we had but in a more normal situation Romo probably would have been enough. He propped up our franchise for several years from the moment he took over in 2006.

Those blunders were like Seinfeld’s episode of picking his nose Often a first impression sticks with you not representing the complete body of work.

I always said history would better reflect on Romo’s career than our current emotions.

 

[Big_D]

He just needed a better team for a period of time. He had IMO only two years with a formidable team in 2007 and 2014. It would have been nice to have had some consistency with the team for several years.

I thought the 2014 team was primed to contend for several years. But we never fielded that awesome trio on offense again with that OL.

consistency is the key. It didn't really exist. We consistently had a passing offense. Tough to just point to 2 random years where we think they had a shot. I still in 12 years have seen nothing that tells me the coaching is capable.

Take the Packers for example.

Since 2006, 9 trips to the playoffs. played in 4 championship games, 18 playoff games, had 10 postseason wins, a berth 8 years in a row from 2009 to 2016 and still only 1 championship. That's pretty consistent. As great as Rodgers is it obviously takes more.

 

[Big_D]

For years I always wanted a greater QB which I thought might could have overcome the dysfunctional situation we had but in a more normal situation Romo probably would have been enough. He propped up our franchise for several years from the moment he took over in 2006.

Those blunders were like Seinfeld’s episode of picking his nose Often a first impression sticks with you not representing the complete body of work.

I always said history would better reflect on Romo’s career than our current emotions.

He made his share of mistakes, but they pretty much stem from a front office that never really made a smart decision. A team that was constantly pressing because of poor coaching hires, trades, drafts etc… it's a long list.

 

[Captain43Crash]

When he had the offensive players, he never had a defense. When the defense got built up, he had no offensive weapons.
But yet Shula was never blamed. Not that I remember.

Shula won Superbowls without Marino. I do think Shula was a little overrated. Though still an excellent coach.