Twitter: The Fan Draft Board - Broaddus, Cavanaugh, Turner (By Position)

[Trouty]

I watched Gregory a lot in college as we were badly in need of DE help and he was considered one of the best.


But I agree with you that by year 3 or 4 he could be really, really good.
And I was glad we got him where did in the draft which was more in line with his talent then the R1 pick where he was projected.

And this is what it's all about, J. We got him in the second, and, with the added weight, he's a true 4-3 (rare) DE. We have to pray that he stays away from the herb. He has the best pure talent of any of our ends. Easily. Not close.

His run D wasn't as bad as others make it, but J, with you saying you watched a lot of Gregory, I won't be able to convince you. The video shows how often he shed single and double teams to the B gap, as well as exploded the C/outside run lane.

I suggest you watch it. You may not like it/call it cherry picking (and that's fine; understandable for a highlight vid), but it's well-made and gives a good arguement for critics, such as yourself, to contemplate.

With respect, brother.

 

[Sydla]

I am trying to be a calmer, more reasonable poster but stuff like this tests me....
Wilcox was a WR, slot back, RB, kick RETURNER, Safety and more in college.
SOUND FAMILIAR??

He tested yes, SLIGHTLY worse than Peppers in almost an IDENTICAL frame.

Well that proves it.

Peppers is Wilcox.

 

[jterrell]

And this is what it's all about, J. We got him in the second, and, with the added weight, he's a true 4-3 (rare) DE. We have to pray that he stays away from the herb. He has the best pure talent of any of our ends. Easily. Not close.

His run D wasn't as bad as others make it, but J, with you saying you watched a lot of Gregory, I won't be able to convince you. The video shows how often he shed single and double teams to the B gap, as well as exploded the C/outside run lane.

I suggest you watch it. You may not like it/call it cherry picking (and that's fine; understandable for a highlight vid), but it's well-made and gives a good argument for critics, such as yourself, to contemplate.

With respect, brother.

First appreciate the respectful posts even if we disagree. Love civil discussions that are fact based and there's little to discuss if everyone agrees.

We have NFL playing time now for Gregory so really going back isn't required.
But if I do I prefer http://draftbreakdown.com/players/randy-gregory/
If you look at the Wisconsin game I actually watched live at the time you'll see Gregory just slowly but surely disappear after dominating early.
He's single blocked a lot in the run game where Melvin Gordon goes bananas.

As a rookie Gregory was really poor versus the run. Really poor.
Last year he flashed much more ability in the bigger body.
His potential is enormous so we are on the same page there.
But you could easily see on tape in college that he took plays off, was wildly inconsistent and need to add both strength and stamina.
Those concerns made him a round 2 type guy with some top of the draft explosiveness.
Now he's a much bigger guy with added strength. We haven't seen his motor or consistency yet because he's been out but hopefully we do get to.

 

[jterrell]

Well that proves it.

Peppers is Wilcox.

Sydla, you tell me who Peppers most closely resembles coming out of college?

 

[Sydla]

Sydla, you tell me who Peppers most closely resembles coming out of college?

I don't typically make comparisons to other players.

But what I do know is that Peppers is getting much higher grades than Wilcox got in his draft. Peppers played in a P5 conference against better competition than Wilcox did. Peppers tested out as a better athlete than Wilcox did. Wilcox was slotted as a 4th-5th round type guy in his draft. Peppers is considered a 1st, 2nd round guy.

I don't think there is any comparison between the two.

 

[Trouty]

First appreciate the respectful posts even if we disagree. Love civil discussions that are fact based and there's little to discuss if everyone agrees.

We have NFL playing time now for Gregory so really going back isn't required.
But if I do I prefer http://draftbreakdown.com/players/randy-gregory/
If you look at the Wisconsin game I actually watched live at the time you'll see Gregory just slowly but surely disappear after dominating early.
He's single blocked a lot in the run game where Melvin Gordon goes bananas.

As a rookie Gregory was really poor versus the run. Really poor.
Last year he flashed much more ability in the bigger body.
His potential is enormous so we are on the same page there.
But you could easily see on tape in college that he took plays off, was wildly inconsistent and need to add both strength and stamina.
Those concerns made him a round 2 type guy with some top of the draft explosiveness.
Now he's a much bigger guy with added strength. We haven't seen his motor or consistency yet because he's been out but hopefully we do get to.

Well here's to hoping/praying we get him back after his suspension with a load on his shoulders to prove It will only benefit our beloved Boys. With more added weight (around 265-280-ish) and, hopefully, all this time off practicing, eating, conditioning.

I'm so hopeful for his reinstatement, even if my hopes are burned. So be it!

 

[Trouty]

I don't typically make comparisons to other players.

But what I do know is that Peppers is getting much higher grades than Wilcox got in his draft. Peppers played in a P5 conference against better competition than Wilcox did. Peppers tested out as a better athlete than Wilcox did. Wilcox was slotted as a 4th-5th round type guy in his draft. Peppers is considered a 1st, 2nd round guy.

I don't think there is any comparison between the two.

Peppers is flying up the draft charts. This whole conversation might be moot. I just saw him going at 11 (I believe) by Kiper on ESPN.

Gosh, I want this guy.

 

[CATCH17]

Gareon Conley tier 2?

I hope the NFL thinks that and he slides to 28.

 

[jterrell]

I don't typically make comparisons to other players.

But what I do know is that Peppers is getting much higher grades than Wilcox got in his draft. Peppers played in a P5 conference against better competition than Wilcox did. Peppers tested out as a better athlete than Wilcox did. Wilcox was slotted as a 4th-5th round type guy in his draft. Peppers is considered a 1st, 2nd round guy.

I don't think there is any comparison between the two.

No offense but it is hard to respect a take like this.
If you are going to question a comparison you pretty much have to make them.

Reality is of the last decade there's probably not a better comparison at SS to Peppers than Wilcox.

You are correct he played better comp and he tested SLIGHTLY better. So he's going to be rated slightly better.
Wilcox was actually a 3rd rounder on most educated boards which is where Dallas actually drafted him.

Given Peppers slightly better athleticism but similar frame and experience I'd suggest he is about a mid round 2 guy and that's where I expect him to be drafted.
In Cowboys terms if he is there at 28 select someone else or trade down to about 45 for him, if he is there at 60 celebrate.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I'll weigh in here to say the Wilcox comparison, in my view, is pretty apt. That's not to say he and Peppers are the same player or the talent level is equal. But I don't think it's a stretch to say you hope Peppers can be a richer man's version of what they hoped Wilcox could be. I'm troubled by the lack of generated turnovers on Peppers' part. I'm also troubled by inconsistencies in his play. If I thought he could be a great safety, I'd be all for drafting him. I doubt he will be. My guess is he becomes -- in time -- a fair to good safety who offers some excitement on jet sweeps, returns, etc. But given the NFL's increasing efforts to limit injuries, I wouldn't draft anyone with the return game much in mind. Likely there won't be kickoffs sometime in the next few years, and punt returns will be under the microscope at some point. That's not to say punt returns will be eliminated, but I could imagine a scenario where it becomes even more difficult to make a big play.

 

[CATCH17]

I'll weigh in here to say the Wilcox comparison, in my view, is pretty apt. That's not to say he and Peppers are the same player or the talent level is equal. But I don't think it's a stretch to say you hope Peppers can be a richer man's version of what they hoped Wilcox could be. I'm troubled by the lack of generated turnovers on Peppers' part. I'm also troubled by inconsistencies in his play. If I thought he could be a great safety, I'd be all for drafting him. I doubt he will be. My guess is he becomes -- in time -- a fair to good safety who offers some excitement on jet sweeps, returns, etc. But given the NFL's increasing efforts to limit injuries, I wouldn't draft anyone with the return game much in mind. Likely there won't be kickoffs sometime in the next few years, and punt returns will be under the microscope at some point. That's not to say punt returns will be eliminated, but I could imagine a scenario where it becomes even more difficult to make a big play.

I think Peppers is just a good football player and that's all there is to it. He's going to be good.

The question will be is he just a good player or is he an actual impact player at safety? Im not sure.

 

[Sydla]

No offense but it is hard to respect a take like this.
If you are going to question a comparison you pretty much have to make them.

Reality is of the last decade there's probably not a better comparison at SS to Peppers than Wilcox.

You are correct he played better comp and he tested SLIGHTLY better. So he's going to be rated slightly better.
Wilcox was actually a 3rd rounder on most educated boards which is where Dallas actually drafted him.

Given Peppers slightly better athleticism but similar frame and experience I'd suggest he is about a mid round 2 guy and that's where I expect him to be drafted.
In Cowboys terms if he is there at 28 select someone else or trade down to about 45 for him, if he is there at 60 celebrate.

Actually you don't have to make a comparison to question a comparison. That's some bizarre logic there.

In other words, a poster could say Deshone Kizer's comparison is Big Ben. Using your logic, if someone said that's an insane comparison, they'd be wrong because they didn't make their own comparison. Wut?

I suspect Peppers is gone in the first round............ possibly to us (although we have not scheduled an official visit with him and typically our first rounder has been an official visitor).

 

[Sydla]

I'll weigh in here to say the Wilcox comparison, in my view, is pretty apt. That's not to say he and Peppers are the same player or the talent level is equal. But I don't think it's a stretch to say you hope Peppers can be a richer man's version of what they hoped Wilcox could be. I'm troubled by the lack of generated turnovers on Peppers' part. I'm also troubled by inconsistencies in his play. If I thought he could be a great safety, I'd be all for drafting him. I doubt he will be. My guess is he becomes -- in time -- a fair to good safety who offers some excitement on jet sweeps, returns, etc. But given the NFL's increasing efforts to limit injuries, I wouldn't draft anyone with the return game much in mind. Likely there won't be kickoffs sometime in the next few years, and punt returns will be under the microscope at some point. That's not to say punt returns will be eliminated, but I could imagine a scenario where it becomes even more difficult to make a big play.

Again, Peppers was asked to play a variety of positions at Michigan that would and could lead to lower interceptions totals, consistent play, etc.

My gut tells me if he had stayed a safety and played safety throughout college, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Todd McShay doesn't like peppers much. Hope we don't get him in the first rd. I would be opposed to the late second or beyond. There's lots of controversy about him as far position.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Again, Peppers was asked to play a variety of positions at Michigan that would and could lead to lower interceptions totals, consistent play, etc.

My gut tells me if he had stayed a safety and played safety throughout college, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Oh you could be absolutely right. If he were a pass rusher with similar questions, I'd probably be right in your corner. I don't have much gambler in me when it comes to an in-the-box safety. Now that could be a mistake on my part. This is a different game than it was even a decade ago. But if I have to gamble, I'm going to Vegas for a QB, a pass rusher, an OT or a CB, in that order. I will say this -- the Cowboys have earned some trust where the first round is concerned. If Peppers is the choice, I'm going to be enthusiastic until proven otherwise. Again I'm just concerned that a player with his physical ability wasn't in the right place at the right time more often.

 

[Trouty]

Again, Peppers was asked to play a variety of positions at Michigan that would and could lead to lower interceptions totals, consistent play, etc.

My gut tells me if he had stayed a safety and played safety throughout college, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

He's also not a daggon FS, so ballhawking isn't as necessary for his position. Hell, Woody, our best SS in the last two decades had 4 seasons of 1 INT and 2 with zero.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

He's also not a daggon FS, so ballhawking isn't as necessary for his position. Hell, Woody, our best SS in the last two decades had 4 seasons of 1 INT and 2 with zero.

That is true, and he was also a conversion, albeit from OLB in college. He was also a 2nd round pick. The Cowboys' pick is essentially in Round 2, at least given how many players teams typically give a Round 1 grade. Fair point.

 

[Trouty]

That is true, and he was also a conversion, albeit from OLB in college. He was also a 2nd round pick. The Cowboys' pick is essentially in Round 2, at least given how many players teams typically give a Round 1 grade. Fair point.

Thanks, brother. And thanks for adding more to it

I, also, completely concur with your above post that if we select Peppers, or whomever, with the recent history of our (specifically first round) picks, we should stand by it. As our guys (McClay, Vital, et al) have been on point, Shake.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Thanks, brother. And thanks for adding more to it

I also completely concur with your above post that if we select Peppers, or whomever, with the recent history of our (specifically first round) picks, we should stand by it. As our guys (McClay, Vital, et al) have been on point, Shake.

Been the best in the league in Round 1 for some time, the Claiborne pick aside. Some of their late player meetings (McDowell, Rivers, Humphrey) add a little intrigue. There is an interesting question... if you are gambling, at least to some extent, do you roll the dice on McDowell or on Peppers? It's roulette versus blackjack -- different games. McDowell's questions are more about football character, Peppers' more about being a man who might not have a clear position. If you bet on absolute upside, you'd take McDowell every time. Huge upside. If you bet on the higher floor, you'd take Peppers every time. At the least, he is almost certain to be a valuable jack-of-all-trades. The ante is the same, unless you trade up or down to get one of them. You like the big upside or the small downside?

 

[Trouty]

Been the best in the league in Round 1 for some time, the Claiborne pick aside. Some of their late player meetings (McDowell, Rivers, Humphrey) add a little intrigue. There is an interesting question... if you are gambling, at least to some extent, do you roll the dice on McDowell or on Peppers? It's roulette versus blackjack -- different games. McDowell's questions are more about football character, Peppers' more about being a man who might not have a clear position. If you bet on absolute upside, you'd take McDowell every time. Huge upside. If you bet on the higher floor, you'd take Peppers every time. At the least, he is almost certain to be a valuable jack-of-all-trades. The ante is the same, unless you trade up or down to get one of them. You like the big upside or the small downside?

Personally, for me Shake, if the scouts get it right (easy to say that, I know), I go for higher ceiling every time with a late first round pick. What was Fred's ceiling when we drafted him? Conversely, to make your point, what was Byron's (he seems to have a very solid floor but limited ceiling, whereas Fred is the best C in the game)?

I like Peppers' tenacity, fight, athleticism, and the fact that when he was slotted as a SS he did pretty damn good. He has position flex which hurt him some. That video posted by @FuzzyLumpkins is awesome (2 or so pages back). It shows what this youngster can do in his limited starts at the position. I actually think his ceiling is quite high.

Question, did Wilcox ever play SS in college? Or was he converted once he hit our camp?