The fictional “Elite Quarterback” label

[keysersoze]

Thanks. Good stuff!!!

 

[keysersoze]

Omg. Not to say I know what she went through. My wife had microvascular decompression brain surgery. With an acoustic neuroma tumor that was removed. I’m so happy for you

Thank you. Wow! Your wife is a true survivor. That’s a lot to go through. Especially all at once. Salute to you both.

 

[Qcard]

Moderator Edit: https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/mailbag-can-tony-pollard-play-in-the-slot

Here’s what DallasCowboys.com writers David Helman and Jonny Auping have to say about those who toss that term about around here. And I fully agree.


What is the difference between an elite quarterback and a good quarterback? Does it come down to having a signature win like a Super Bowl win? What must Dak Prescott do to move from a good quarterback to an elite quarterback? Are their specific skills that he must develop, or does he simply need to lead the Dallas Cowboys to a Super Bowl win?— MARTY MONFORTE/ENDICOTT, NY

David: If I could become the tzar of football for a day, the first thing I'd do is outlaw the word "elite" from football conversations. It's a completely subjective, borderline meaningless word that people throw around to win arguments without using facts. The truth of the matter is that quarterbacks from all over the spectrum have helped their teams win Super Bowls — and for a variety of different reasons. For all his talent and accolades, Aaron Rodgers has as many Super Bowl wins as Joe Flacco. Peyton Manning has the same number of championship rings as his little brother, and I think we'd all agree that Peyton was the much better player than Eli. Dak is a top-tier NFL quarterback, and all evidence indicates that his arrow is still pointing upward. Who on Earth can say if he'll actually deliver the championship Cowboys fans have been waiting for, but he's done enough to deserve a new contract in my opinion.

Jonny: Honestly, there are a lot of hard rules to the game of football, but anybody with a definitive list of who is or isn't "elite" just wants to sound like an expert. The line between "really good" and "elite" is thin. I don't think Patrick Mahomes became elite when he won the Super Bowl. But ultimately quarterbacks are judged by wins. I certainly wouldn't put last season's 8-8 record on Dak, but the best quarterbacks tend to manage to overcome a lot of their teammates' mistakes and pull out wins. That said, many of them acquired that attribute after some tough losses. Dak isn't on Mahomes level, and maybe he never will be. But there aren't many quarterbacks I'd confidently say could be the highest paid player on a Super Bowl team. I think Dak is that guy.

"Are you finished?...Well!!...allow me to retort!"

If you think this is a disguised Dak Love thread...you are a Dak Hater!

Tiny jim aka David and Jonny are 1000% correct. The word "Elite" in football conversations is completely subjective and thrown around by fans who want to sound smart.

Elite in most understandings means the best of the best. If Patrick Mahomes is our Elite QB standard then by definition Mahomes has only been First Team All Pro (Elite)ONCE in 2018.

I am not down grading Mahomes greatness but Andy Reid streamlined talent and offense around Mahomes. Superbowl win came in Mahomes very good season NOT his Elite season (2018).

In context Zach Martin has been First Team All Pro (Elite) 4 out of 6 seasons in his career.

Elite is not an ongoing state. Matt Ryan was Elite in 2016. Elite also doesn't equal championship ask Mahomes in 2018...

Denying Dak a market value top 5 tier QB Contract is complete and adulterated HATE!

Dak Hater's worst enemy is technology...this is not the 20th Century

 

[keysersoze]

"Are you finished?...Well!!...allow me to retort!"

If you think this is a disguised Dak Love thread...you are a Dak Hater!

Tiny jim aka David and Jonny are 1000% correct. The word "Elite" in football conversations is completely subjective and thrown around by fans who want to sound smart.

Elite in most understandings means the best of the best. If Patrick Mahomes is our Elite QB standard then by definition Mahomes has only been First Team All Pro (Elite)ONCE in 2018.

I am not down grading Mahomes greatness but Andy Reid streamlined talent and offense around Mahomes. Superbowl win came in Mahomes very good season NOT his Elite season (2018).

In context Zach Martin has been First Team All Pro (Elite) 4 out of 6 seasons in his career.

Elite is not an ongoing state. Matt Ryan was Elite in 2016. Elite also doesn't equal championship ask Mahomes in 2018...

Denying Dak a market value top 5 tier QB Contract is complete and adulterated HATE!

Dak Hater's worst enemy is technology...this is not the 20th Century

BRAVO!!!! Excellent post Sir. 100% factually unbiased.

 

[Johnny23]

There is no such thing as ELITE. Mahomes is a very good quarterback with a strong arm and athleticism. He also has a great coach, a great TE, and some speedsters at WR that go get the deep passes. But in all honesty SF shut the whole show down until Shannahan made the worst decisions of his career and tried to make Jimmy G look ELITE.. The rest is history.

Haha this bogus hot take makes me laugh.
Michael Jordan was an "elite" athlete. Say he struggles for 3 quarters and then explodes down the stretch in the 4th and proves his worth. And doesn't have a 4 quarter domination game it doesn't disprove his elite talent it reinforces it.

Mahomes did what other elite quarterbacks do when the chips are down. While Jimmy G imploded when he had to rise up. That's the definition of elite. It's rising to the occasion when your numbers is called and being the guy. He had running game but he also scrambled for much needed yards and made throws to win.

If everyone is great no one is great.

This is a bad hot take.

 

[silvernblu]

Moderator Edit: https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/mailbag-can-tony-pollard-play-in-the-slot

Here’s what DallasCowboys.com writers David Helman and Jonny Auping have to say about those who toss that term about around here. And I fully agree.


What is the difference between an elite quarterback and a good quarterback? Does it come down to having a signature win like a Super Bowl win? What must Dak Prescott do to move from a good quarterback to an elite quarterback? Are their specific skills that he must develop, or does he simply need to lead the Dallas Cowboys to a Super Bowl win?— MARTY MONFORTE/ENDICOTT, NY

David: If I could become the tzar of football for a day, the first thing I'd do is outlaw the word "elite" from football conversations. It's a completely subjective, borderline meaningless word that people throw around to win arguments without using facts. The truth of the matter is that quarterbacks from all over the spectrum have helped their teams win Super Bowls — and for a variety of different reasons. For all his talent and accolades, Aaron Rodgers has as many Super Bowl wins as Joe Flacco. Peyton Manning has the same number of championship rings as his little brother, and I think we'd all agree that Peyton was the much better player than Eli. Dak is a top-tier NFL quarterback, and all evidence indicates that his arrow is still pointing upward. Who on Earth can say if he'll actually deliver the championship Cowboys fans have been waiting for, but he's done enough to deserve a new contract in my opinion.

Jonny: Honestly, there are a lot of hard rules to the game of football, but anybody with a definitive list of who is or isn't "elite" just wants to sound like an expert. The line between "really good" and "elite" is thin. I don't think Patrick Mahomes became elite when he won the Super Bowl. But ultimately quarterbacks are judged by wins. I certainly wouldn't put last season's 8-8 record on Dak, but the best quarterbacks tend to manage to overcome a lot of their teammates' mistakes and pull out wins. That said, many of them acquired that attribute after some tough losses. Dak isn't on Mahomes level, and maybe he never will be. But there aren't many quarterbacks I'd confidently say could be the highest paid player on a Super Bowl team. I think Dak is that guy.

For staters he can improve his accuracy from the bottom tier current levels.

 

[jnday]

Dallas doesn’t have an elite QB, neither does most NFL teams. The problem is that they have stopped looking and have settled for what they have.

 

[Swagger]

Elite relates to a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group.

So a quarterback that is able to, at times and when necessary, carry a team to win is elite according to the above definition. I.e. overcome adversity and/or weaknesses in other areas of the team. The likes of Rodgers, Wilson and more recently Mahomes are all obvious examples. Brady and Manning have done of course as well. People love to hate him but Wentz performed to an elite level during the last four games of the season. The Eagles had to win every game with the season on the line with an injury ravaged roster.

As discussed Prescott has only achieved this once over four years in a meaningless dead rubber versus the mighty Giants in 2018 - he isn't elite and given what we have seen, is highly unlikely to ever be.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Dak Prescott is an elite quarterback.

There was exactly one QB in the league last year who was top-5 in accuracy, and top-5 in air yards. Give you one guess who it is.

By definition, wouldn't there always be 5 quarterbacks in the league who are top-5 in accuracy?

 

[sean10mm]

By definition, wouldn't there always be 5 quarterbacks in the league who are top-5 in accuracy?

He's saying top 5 in both categories at once, not just 1 of them.

 

[Qcard]

Elite relates to a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group.

So a quarterback that is able to, at times and when necessary, carry a team to win is elite according to the above definition. I.e. overcome adversity and/or weaknesses in other areas of the team. The likes of Rodgers, Wilson and more recently Mahomes are all obvious examples. Brady and Manning have done of course as well. People love to hate him but Wentz performed to an elite level during the last four games of the season. The Eagles had to win every game with the season on the line with an injury ravaged roster.

As discussed Prescott has only achieved this once over four years in a meaningless dead rubber versus the mighty Giants in 2018 - he isn't elite and given what we have seen, is highly unlikely to ever be.

Great post @Swagger !

Though I somewhat disagree you've stated your point clearly and concisely by first defining your interpretation of "Elite" in Football terms.

I disagree because the only way we can equally and fairly judge Elitness based on "ability or qualities" is by looking at production and accomplishments.
Clearly you've downgraded Dak's 2018 performance, completely ignored PFWA ROY 2016 season and dismissed any semblance of progress from Dak.
Dak is in a lose lose situation based on your opinion.
Dak has proven he's worthy of a market value top tier QB Contract, if because that is worth more or equal to "Elite QBs" (by your definition) current contracts then your blame should be with the CBA not Prescott.

QBs never carry teams....it is another 20th Century Football term that is completely subjective and used by people to sound smart! It is actually dumb...if you've played any level of team sports you should know QB is most dependent position in sports...

Leave Wentz out of the conversation...2020 will be the first time Dak doesn't have an anchor ( Garrett). Both HC are Superbowl Caliber whom have coached at an Elite level.

Let's ssee...which team wins!

 

[Reverend Conehead]

He's saying top 5 in both categories at once, not just 1 of them.

Oh, got it. Thanks.

 

[Proof]

Be honest here Pippen would’ve been basic if not for playing with MJ. It took 2-3 guys to even attempt to slow MJ down. Pippen benefitted from being an open slasher because of that. MJ would’ve beat Bird eventually as he matured and refined his game. Now that’s elite. Barkley wasn’t elite. He was a force and a freak of nature. But didn’t have what it took to get the jewelry.

Pippen took the Bulls to 55 wins while mike was “retired”. He was also the best defender on the team. Let’s give him a bit more credit than that

 

[Doomsday101]

I put very few into the category of elite. To me elite in any sport is someone who plays to an extreme high level of play over a period of time. Not 1 or 2 season but over the span of their career.

 

[TexasHillbilly]

we have a good young QB we can win with now who continues to get better.
pay the man.

Another 12 pages please. I didn't see this already had so many posts. It's Monday. What can I say?

 

[PAPPYDOG]

This "Non-Elite" QB wants top 5 QB monies......you be the judge if he is Elite?

 

[DenCWBY]

Dallas doesn’t have an elite QB, neither does most NFL teams. The problem is that they have stopped looking and have settled for what they have.

This. Dak can win a SB but he's going to have to have a top 5 defense and a top 5 OL to do it. Coaching can help put the right players and strategy around Dak for him to be more effective (and limit mistakes). Let's just hope that is the direction we're heading with this new staff and draft.

 

[Playmaker247]

This "Non-Elite" QB wants top 5 QB monies......you be the judge if he is Elite?

He was hurt but glad we are taking 1 game out of a 64 game sample size.

 

[McKDaddy]

So are all other evaluations fictional as well? Like "bust"? Average? Exceptional?
Of course there is some subjectivity, it's a performance. Doesn't mean it's fictional.

 

[kskboys]

This "Non-Elite" QB wants top 5 QB monies......you be the judge if he is Elite?

Hey, those are very similar stats to Brady's in the super bowl vs the Rams. In fact, Brady's rating was even lower at 71.4. So, you're saying Dak is great?