CCBoy
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The Lance trade was the best Jerry move of all time
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buybuydandavis
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Yep. A very Jerry proposition.
That's one thing I like about Jerry as GM. We take flyers like this high upside players. A normal GM has a shorter time horizon.
CowboysFaninHouston
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high ceiling? hmmm, not any longer. after couple of years in the league, somebody lowered that ceiling.
I thought the Herschel Walker trade was better. but people give Jimmy the credit for that one.
Whirlwin
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Yes
Whirlwin
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Agree. But not forever.
Chasing6
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Herschel Walker Trade.
Whirlwin
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Herschel Walker trade. Has Jerry and Jimmy , not Jerry and Stephen.
Adreme
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True but whoever gives him that shot will not the Cowboys. Right now he is a QB not good enough to beat out Sam Darnold for a backup QB spot. That means he is likely not top 40 at his position. He will not play this year and will likely not play next year. If someone gives him a shot in 3 seasons it will have been 6 seasons since he was a starter on ANY level for more than 2 games. I do not know who is going to do that but it will likely not be a team who already has a top 10 QB on the roster, or I guess in 2 years they will be resigning him for probably a record deal.
I suspect Jerry thinks that the threat of a QB who will have not started in 6 years on any level will somehow give him leverage in these negotiations but it really will not.
Whirlwin
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Everything you said is nothing but speculation. It was the perfect time to pull the trigger on the potential side. Do you have to take the opportunity when it presents itself. Absolutely
Whirlwin
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And he still only be 26 years old. There is nothing to complain about. Leverage for a contract. You really think jerry gives a crap about leverage.
Whyjerry
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Jimmy
CCBoy
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In his book, Greatest Team Ever: The Dallas Cowboys Dynasty of the 1990s, author Norm Hitzges chronicled the Herschel Walker trade.[3] Four games into the 1989 season, Jimmy Johnson, then the new head coach of the Dallas Cowboys (having taken over for Tom Landry that season), came up with the idea to trade Walker while on a morning jog with his staff. Johnson felt the Cowboys' poor performance could only be remedied by a blockbuster trade. He briefly considered trading wide receiver Michael Irvin to the Los Angeles Raiders, but Raiders owner Al Davis essentially talked Johnson out of the trade by saying, "You sure you want to do that? Who is going to catch passes for you?" Johnson felt that Walker was the only remaining bargaining chip they had.
A number of teams contacted the Cowboys when they announced that they would trade Walker. The New York Giants were among the first teams to express interest. Walker had started his professional career at the Meadowlands with the New Jersey Generals during the United States Football League's three-year run and was amenable to a return to Giants Stadium; however, the trade would have been unfavorable for Dallas since both teams were in the NFC East division. The Atlanta Falcons entered into negotiations, but eventually pulled out over fear of Walker's future contract demands. The most serious offer came from the Cleveland Browns.
Johnson stated, "[The Browns] offered us a player, a couple of future number one draft picks and three number two draft picks." The Cowboys felt this was a favorable offer, but they also felt that if another team were to enter the discussion, then they could generate a bidding war and thereby get even more compensation. Jimmy Johnson and team owner Jerry Jones decided to contact other clubs to generate buzz and create leverage. Johnson contacted Minnesota Vikings general manager Mike Lynn. Johnson told Lynn that he was going to trade Walker to Cleveland that afternoon, and that if Minnesota would like to trade for Walker, then it would cost them "players, draft picks, conditional picks, and provisions", giving Lynn a deadline of 6:30 p.m.
The Vikings were trying to make their first Super Bowl appearance since Super Bowl XI. In the previous two years, the Vikings lost to the Washington Commanders in the 1988 NFC Championship Game and lost to the San Francisco 49ers in the Divisional Playoffs in the 1988–89 NFL playoffs. Lynn, feeling a star running back like Walker was the missing piece to a Super Bowl run, faxed Johnson that he was interested, and soon after negotiations ensued. In order to get Walker to agree to a trade, the Cowboys paid him a $1.25 million "exit bonus".[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade
Al Davis had been talking with Jerry for quite a while before purchase...
Jimmy wasn't exactly forging the environment but learning on the fly and assisted by several participants in accomplishing this franchise turning event.
Adreme
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Its not speculation its math based on how time works.
He is not competing to be the starter this year. He is competing to be the backup. He could beat out Sam Darnold for a backup spot, he is nowhere near ready to compete with someone who when you ask scouts, GMs, and coaches has in the top 10. Sam Darnold is not in the top 30 and likely borderline top 40.
Its not speculation that after this year it will have been 5 years since he was a starter on any level for more than 2 games, of which he only finished 1. That is an unquestionable fact.
Now it is speculation that they are not going to start a guy who has not been a starter in 5 years, who just 1 year ago failed to overtake Sam Darnold, over a top 10 QB, but that is fairly safe speculation.
CCBoy
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The Vikings' biggest mistake from the trade process was wrongly assuming that the Cowboys of 1989 would only keep the three picks they got from Minnesota for the 1990 Draft and (because Dallas had the worst roster in the league and needed upgrades desperately) would retain the players they'd received instead of cutting or trading them and getting the many 1991 and 1992 contingent Vikings choices. Minnesota therefore felt at first that they got the better end of the deal, not knowing at the time that head coach Jimmy Johnson was interested only in the draft picks and not the players. At a press conference after the trade, Johnson bragged that he committed "The Great Train Robbery” but was criticized by various sports writers such as Randy Galloway of The Dallas Morning News.[4]
Johnson waived Stewart in November 1989, then told his coaches to not start Solomon, Howard or Holt, signaling to the rest of the league his intention to claim the draft picks. Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn eventually made another deal, letting the Cowboys keep the three players and all the conditional picks.[4]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Herschel Walker trade was the largest player trade in the history of the National Football League (NFL).[1] This deal on October 12, 1989, centered on sending running back Herschel Walker from the Dallas Cowboys to the Minnesota Vikings. Including Walker and a transaction involving the San Diego Chargers, the trade eventually involved 18 players and draft picks.[2] At the time of the deal, the Cowboys were one of the worst teams in the league (the team finished the 1989 season with its worst post-merger record, 1–15), trading away their best player, while the Vikings believed that Walker was the missing piece they needed to make a Super Bowl run. Thus, Minnesota originally felt that they got the better end of the deal. Instead, the Cowboys used the draft picks acquired in this trade to get the players they needed to help them win three Super Bowls in the 1990s. Meanwhile, the Vikings did not make a Super Bowl appearance with Walker.
A number of teams contacted the Cowboys when they announced that they would trade Walker. The New York Giants were among the first teams to express interest. Walker had started his professional career at the Meadowlands with the New Jersey Generals during the United States Football League's three-year run and was amenable to a return to Giants Stadium; however, the trade would have been unfavorable for Dallas since both teams were in the NFC East division. The Atlanta Falcons entered into negotiations, but eventually pulled out over fear of Walker's future contract demands. The most serious offer came from the Cleveland Browns.
Johnson stated, "[The Browns] offered us a player, a couple of future number one draft picks and three number two draft picks." The Cowboys felt this was a favorable offer, but they also felt that if another team were to enter the discussion, then they could generate a bidding war and thereby get even more compensation. Jimmy Johnson and team owner Jerry Jones decided to contact other clubs to generate buzz and create leverage. Johnson contacted Minnesota Vikings general manager Mike Lynn. Johnson told Lynn that he was going to trade Walker to Cleveland that afternoon, and that if Minnesota would like to trade for Walker, then it would cost them "players, draft picks, conditional picks, and provisions", giving Lynn a deadline of 6:30 p.m.
The Vikings were trying to make their first Super Bowl appearance since Super Bowl XI. In the previous two years, the Vikings lost to the Washington Commanders in the 1988 NFC Championship Game and lost to the San Francisco 49ers in the Divisional Playoffs in the 1988–89 NFL playoffs. Lynn, feeling a star running back like Walker was the missing piece to a Super Bowl run, faxed Johnson that he was interested, and soon after negotiations ensued. In order to get Walker to agree to a trade, the Cowboys paid him a $1.25 million "exit bonus".[3]
One of those players that Minnesota agreed to send to Dallas, Darrin Nelson, refused to report to the Cowboys. Dallas then agreed to trade Nelson to the San Diego Chargers for their fifth-round pick in 1990, which the Cowboys promptly sent to the Vikings. In total, this revised trade involved 18 players and draft picks (with the revised transactions involving San Diego in bold):[2]
The Vikings' biggest mistake from the trade process was wrongly assuming that the Cowboys of 1989 would only keep the three picks they got from Minnesota for the 1990 Draft and (because Dallas had the worst roster in the league and needed upgrades desperately) would retain the players they'd received instead of cutting or trading them and getting the many 1991 and 1992 contingent Vikings choices. Minnesota therefore felt at first that they got the better end of the deal, not knowing at the time that head coach Jimmy Johnson was interested only in the draft picks and not the players. At a press conference after the trade, Johnson bragged that he committed "The Great Train Robbery” but was criticized by various sports writers such as Randy Galloway of The Dallas Morning News.[4]
Johnson waived Stewart in November 1989, then told his coaches to not start Solomon, Howard or Holt, signaling to the rest of the league his intention to claim the draft picks. Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn eventually made another deal, letting the Cowboys keep the three players and all the conditional picks.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade
Johnson waived Stewart in November 1989, then told his coaches to not start Solomon, Howard or Holt, signaling to the rest of the league his intention to claim the draft picks. Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn eventually made another deal, letting the Cowboys keep the three players and all the conditional picks.[4]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Herschel Walker trade was the largest player trade in the history of the National Football League (NFL).[1] This deal on October 12, 1989, centered on sending running back Herschel Walker from the Dallas Cowboys to the Minnesota Vikings. Including Walker and a transaction involving the San Diego Chargers, the trade eventually involved 18 players and draft picks.[2] At the time of the deal, the Cowboys were one of the worst teams in the league (the team finished the 1989 season with its worst post-merger record, 1–15), trading away their best player, while the Vikings believed that Walker was the missing piece they needed to make a Super Bowl run. Thus, Minnesota originally felt that they got the better end of the deal. Instead, the Cowboys used the draft picks acquired in this trade to get the players they needed to help them win three Super Bowls in the 1990s. Meanwhile, the Vikings did not make a Super Bowl appearance with Walker.
Background[edit]
In his book, Greatest Team Ever: The Dallas Cowboys Dynasty of the 1990s, author Norm Hitzges chronicled the Herschel Walker trade.[3] Four games into the 1989 season, Jimmy Johnson, then the new head coach of the Dallas Cowboys (having taken over for Tom Landry that season), came up with the idea to trade Walker while on a morning jog with his staff. Johnson felt the Cowboys' poor performance could only be remedied by a blockbuster trade. He briefly considered trading wide receiver Michael Irvin to the Los Angeles Raiders, but Raiders owner Al Davis essentially talked Johnson out of the trade by saying, "You sure you want to do that? Who is going to catch passes for you?" Johnson felt that Walker was the only remaining bargaining chip they had.A number of teams contacted the Cowboys when they announced that they would trade Walker. The New York Giants were among the first teams to express interest. Walker had started his professional career at the Meadowlands with the New Jersey Generals during the United States Football League's three-year run and was amenable to a return to Giants Stadium; however, the trade would have been unfavorable for Dallas since both teams were in the NFC East division. The Atlanta Falcons entered into negotiations, but eventually pulled out over fear of Walker's future contract demands. The most serious offer came from the Cleveland Browns.
Johnson stated, "[The Browns] offered us a player, a couple of future number one draft picks and three number two draft picks." The Cowboys felt this was a favorable offer, but they also felt that if another team were to enter the discussion, then they could generate a bidding war and thereby get even more compensation. Jimmy Johnson and team owner Jerry Jones decided to contact other clubs to generate buzz and create leverage. Johnson contacted Minnesota Vikings general manager Mike Lynn. Johnson told Lynn that he was going to trade Walker to Cleveland that afternoon, and that if Minnesota would like to trade for Walker, then it would cost them "players, draft picks, conditional picks, and provisions", giving Lynn a deadline of 6:30 p.m.
The Vikings were trying to make their first Super Bowl appearance since Super Bowl XI. In the previous two years, the Vikings lost to the Washington Commanders in the 1988 NFC Championship Game and lost to the San Francisco 49ers in the Divisional Playoffs in the 1988–89 NFL playoffs. Lynn, feeling a star running back like Walker was the missing piece to a Super Bowl run, faxed Johnson that he was interested, and soon after negotiations ensued. In order to get Walker to agree to a trade, the Cowboys paid him a $1.25 million "exit bonus".[3]
Timeline[edit]
In the original proposal, Dallas agreed to give Herschel Walker and three draft picks to Minnesota. In exchange, the Cowboys would get from the Vikings five players, three draft picks, and conditional picks attached to each of those five players should they be cut by Dallas before February 1, 1990:[4]One of those players that Minnesota agreed to send to Dallas, Darrin Nelson, refused to report to the Cowboys. Dallas then agreed to trade Nelson to the San Diego Chargers for their fifth-round pick in 1990, which the Cowboys promptly sent to the Vikings. In total, this revised trade involved 18 players and draft picks (with the revised transactions involving San Diego in bold):[2]
| To Dallas Cowboys | To Minnesota Vikings | To San Diego Chargers |
|---|---|---|
|
|
The Vikings' biggest mistake from the trade process was wrongly assuming that the Cowboys of 1989 would only keep the three picks they got from Minnesota for the 1990 Draft and (because Dallas had the worst roster in the league and needed upgrades desperately) would retain the players they'd received instead of cutting or trading them and getting the many 1991 and 1992 contingent Vikings choices. Minnesota therefore felt at first that they got the better end of the deal, not knowing at the time that head coach Jimmy Johnson was interested only in the draft picks and not the players. At a press conference after the trade, Johnson bragged that he committed "The Great Train Robbery” but was criticized by various sports writers such as Randy Galloway of The Dallas Morning News.[4]
Johnson waived Stewart in November 1989, then told his coaches to not start Solomon, Howard or Holt, signaling to the rest of the league his intention to claim the draft picks. Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn eventually made another deal, letting the Cowboys keep the three players and all the conditional picks.[4]
Aftermath and legacy[edit]
Dallas used Minnesota's picks over the succeeding years to make trades with other teams around the NFL. The picks acquired in those were then used to draft players such as Emmitt Smith, Darren Woodson, and Russell Maryland. These players would help the Cowboys win multiple Super Bowls. In other words, the trade of Walker to the Vikings contributed largely to the Cowboys' success in the early 1990s. For this reason, it has been called one of the most lopsided trades in sports history.[5]| Pick acquired by Dallas | Dallas's subsequent transactions (partial list)[1] |
|---|---|
| Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 |
|
| Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 |
|
| Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 |
|
| Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 |
|
| Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 |
|
| Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 |
|
| Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 |
|
| Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 |
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade
Whirlwin
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You don’t know what speculation is, obviously. It’s just your opinion nothing more. You keep saying he failed to overtake Sam Donald. If you’re injured, I guess that’s true. But it wasn’t because of talent.
Motorola
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I repeat --- " the best Jerry move of all time" -purchasing the Dallas Cowboys.
Jones paid then-owner H.R. "Bum" Bright $140 million dollars for the team in February 1989.
34 and a half years later ---- August 2023 - the value of the franchise is $9.2 BILLION dollars.
CT Dal Fan
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People also ignore how much more football Darnold has played, going back to college, than Lance has. Of course Darnold moved ahead of him on the depth chart.
CowboyFrog
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Shanny has a "injury" full stop now.. when it happened again last year he is now in full "has this guy ever been injured" mode
Whyjerry
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Jimmy’s trade
Adreme
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I am genuinely getting concerned that you do not know what speculation actually means. Unless you think units of time are speculation, and while there is something to that there is no way you are talking about that, then everything I was referring was fact based things that have already happened. Time flows in one direction so referring to things that have already happened is not speculation, but fact.
He was not injured this offseason. He played and was not good. Brock Purdy was hurt this offseason but Trey Lance participated and was beat out, straight up by Sam Darnold. The fact that the coaches picked Darnold is not speculation. That word does not mean what you think it means. Since 2019 he has not started more than 2 games (and not started and finished more than 1). That is also not speculation. That is again a fact. You can look it up and confirm the truth of it.
Nothing I have said is speculation unless you genuinely do not know what that word means.