The NFL's Official Change to What Is A Catch: Dez Bryant play rule rewritten *merge*

[blindzebra]

LOL, Blandino says that as long as all 3 points are met it is a catch. There is not one word that says it has to happen before a player starts to go to the ground.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-strikes-again

1:15 mark clear as day, falling becomes relevant only if one of the 3 does not happen. Which is exactly what the rule book said in 2014, that is if you understand what the hell you are talking about.

 

[percyhoward]

I think it was one of those, making the right call for the wrong reason or just giving the wrong reason, miscommunication? I seem to remember a World Series game ending obstruction call. That was the right call, but the reasoning after the game was terrible.

We're not talking about some heat-of-the-moment comment. Steratore's official explanation to the pool reporter is consistent with all of the interviews given by Blandino since then regarding the procedure that was followed, with the only exception being that Steratore mentioned a "reach," and Blandino cleaned that up by saying it wasn't an obvious enough reach. (If they say they saw a reach, that completes the catch process and makes Dez a runner, which means it's a catch.)

 

[blindzebra]

We're not talking about some heat-of-the-moment comment. Steratore's official explanation to the pool reporter is consistent with all of the interviews given by Blandino since then regarding the procedure that was followed, with the only exception being that Steratore mentioned a "reach," and Blandino cleaned that up by saying it wasn't an obvious enough reach. (If they say they saw a reach, that completes the catch process and makes Dez a runner, which means it's a catch.)

DET calls + Party Bus = Dallas gets screwed is the real 3 step process in all of this.

 

[percyhoward]

LOL, Blandino says that as long as all 3 points are met it is a catch. There is not one word that says it has to happen before a player starts to go to the ground.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-strikes-again

1:15 mark clear as day, falling becomes relevant only if one of the 3 does not happen. Which is exactly what the rule book said in 2014, that is if you understand what the hell you are talking about.

Plus, the two players in those videos are clearly both already going to the ground as the play is still being dissected and the differences between them explained.

 

[Joefrl]

Oh wow. Whether you think the football move applied, OR Rule 8-3 item 1 applied, DEZ caught the BALL!!

Player Going to the Ground.
If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact
by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control,the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

The bolded portion IS IDENTICAL TO DOWN BY CONTACT. It introduces NO NEW CONCEPTS, NO NEW DEFINITIONS!

Dez must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of down by contact. The NFL did not give a precise explanation of what throughout the process of contacting the ground means, so..... DOWN BY CONTACT APPLIES. There's even a case to be made that Dez's first step contacting the ground was enough to meet the language of what I bolded.

Bottom line: No language in the rulebook supported taking away Dez's catch, which was a CATCH NINE TIMES OVER, according to the written rules. Blandino's podium speeches are irrelevant. Twitter referees are irrelevant. What was written is all that matters.

Rule 7-2-1 There are four situations where "down by contact" apply. 3 are with a RUNNER and the other is with a QB. So first, Dez the receiver must become Dez the runner before he can be "down by contact".

And by the way, you can't just insert another rule, when the original is inadequate. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Joefrl]

LOL, Blandino says that as long as all 3 points are met it is a catch. There is not one word that says it has to happen before a player starts to go to the ground.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-strikes-again

1:15 mark clear as day, falling becomes relevant only if one of the 3 does not happen. Which is exactly what the rule book said in 2014, that is if you understand what the hell you are talking about.

falling becomes relevant only if one of the 3 does not happen........................You typed it, and it is correct.

 

[Joefrl]

We're not talking about some heat-of-the-moment comment. Steratore's official explanation to the pool reporter is consistent with all of the interviews given by Blandino since then regarding the procedure that was followed, with the only exception being that Steratore mentioned a "reach," and Blandino cleaned that up by saying it wasn't an obvious enough reach. (If they say they saw a reach, that completes the catch process and makes Dez a runner, which means it's a catch.)

And that confuses me because that reasoning violates 8-3-item 1. And what about Item 4? IF the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided that the player continues to maintain control. Dez did not continue to maintain control.

 

[percyhoward]

falling becomes relevant only if one of the 3 does not happen........................You typed it, and it is correct.

So why was Thomas' reach a football move and Dez's wasn't?

 

[blindzebra]

falling becomes relevant only if one of the 3 does not happen........................You typed it, and it is correct.

Which contradicts all the crap you have posted in this thread.

 

[percyhoward]

And that confuses me because that reasoning violates 8-3-item 1. And what about Item 4? IF the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided that the player continues to maintain control. Dez did not continue to maintain control.

As has been repeated ad nauseum, item 1 only applies to a player who is still in the act of catching the pass. Use 8-3 to see if he caught it. If he hasn't, AND he's going to the ground, that's when item 1 kicks in.

 

[Joefrl]

And that confuses me because that reasoning violates 8-3-item 1. And what about Item 4? IF the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided that the player continues to maintain control. Dez did not continue to maintain control.

So why was Thomas' reach a football move and Dez's wasn't?

In my opinion it was because Dez was already going to the ground or falling before lunging or reaching. Thomas was standing up straight, two feet down, when he lunged or reached.

Also, the rule book defines a football move as a lateral, dive, running, avoiding a tackler, etc. Did he have time to lateral? No. Did he have time to run?
I don't think so. Did he have time to dive? Maybe. Did he have time to avoid a tackler? No. I am still leaning towards incomplete.

 

[Joefrl]

As has been repeated ad nauseum, item 1 only applies to a player who is still in the act of catching the pass. Use 8-3 to see if he caught it. If he hasn't, AND he's going to the ground, that's when item 1 kicks in.

My interpretation of item 1 is that all 3 A,B, and C have to be met before "going to the ground" A,B, & C are the act of catching a pass, are they not?

There is nothing written saying only A&B are the act of catching a pass, so the logical road is that all 3 are indeed the act of catching a pass. One has not completed the pass until all 3 are completed by rule 8-3.So anything short of that and item 1 applies.

 

[blindzebra]

Rules 101:

The rule says to go from a receiver (the act of catching) to a runner you must get A) Control B) 2 feet in bounds C) Have time to or make a move common to the game

The falling exception comes into play when a player can't (going OOB) or won't (in the end zone) complete part C. It can also happen like in the Calvin Johnson diving play, in percyhoward's video, where B also did not occur. This exception ends whenever all 3 of the above occur. It does not have to be before the fall, that is not in the rule book. Once all 3 happen you no longer have a receiver you have a runner.

 

[percyhoward]

In my opinion it was because Dez was already going to the ground or falling before lunging or reaching. Thomas was standing up straight, two feet down, when he lunged or reached.

Also, the rule book defines a football move as a lateral, dive, running, avoiding a tackler, etc. Did he have time to lateral? No. Did he have time to run?
I don't think so. Did he have time to dive? Maybe. Did he have time to avoid a tackler? No. I am still leaning towards incomplete.

Like I said, as interesting as they may be, our opinions don't explain these calls. The official explanation was that Dez's reach needed to be "more obvious...extending the ball for the goal line, or reaching with two hands." Nothing about upright vs falling, did you notice? The football move is what proved (in 2014) that a player had been upright long enough to make a...wait for it... football move. As incredibly obvious as that sounds, it is now out of the rule book.

Anyway, the point is he told us why the reach wasn't a football move. Even though 1) Dez had to keep his elbow bent in order for the ball to point in the direction of the goal line, and 2) there has never been a rule that you need to use two hands to break the plane of the goal line.

All of that awkwardness could have been avoided if Steratore hadn't officially said that he saw a reach, and could have been easily explained with a "there was no football move."

 

[Joefrl]

Rules 101:

The rule says to go from a receiver (the act of catching) to a runner you must get A) Control B) 2 feet in bounds C) Have time to or make a move common to the game

The falling exception comes into play when a player can't (going OOB) or won't (in the end zone) complete part C. It can also happen like in the Calvin Johnson diving play, in percyhoward's video, where B also did not occur. This exception ends whenever all 3 of the above occur. It does not have to be before the fall, that is not in the rule book. Once all 3 happen you no longer have a receiver you have a runner.

My interpretation of item 1 is that all 3 A,B, and C have to be met before "going to the ground" A,B, & C are the act of catching a pass, are they not?

There is nothing written saying only A&B are the act of catching a pass, so the logical road is that all 3 are indeed the act of catching a pass. One has not completed the pass until all 3 are completed by rule 8-3.So anything short of that and item 1 applies.

 

[Joefrl]

I see going to the ground as actually hitting the ground so that a player would be down by contact. A football move prior to that fulfills part C. That is how the NFL has applied it in the past as well.

In both football and baseball, if one is falling when they catch the ball, land on their stomach and the force of hitting the ground causes the ball to squirt out, it has always been no catch.

 

[Joefrl]

So then, under the new rule, with the "initial contact with the ground", his 3rd step would complete the catch.

If one leaves his feet to make a catch and lands, in order on his knee, hip, arm, and then torso............if the force of any of those hitting the ground for the first time (initial contact) causes the ball to squirt away, it is an incomplete pass.

 

[blindzebra]

My interpretation of item 1 is that all 3 A,B, and C have to be met before "going to the ground" A,B, & C are the act of catching a pass, are they not?

There is nothing written saying only A&B are the act of catching a pass, so the logical road is that all 3 are indeed the act of catching a pass. One has not completed the pass until all 3 are completed by rule 8-3.So anything short of that and item 1 applies.

Dez met all 3 before he went to the ground.

 

[blindzebra]

In both football and baseball, if one is falling when they catch the ball, land on their stomach and the force of hitting the ground causes the ball to squirt out, it has always been no catch.

Dez did not dive he landed on 2 feet.

 

[nathanlt]

Rule 7-2-1 There are four situations where "down by contact" apply. 3 are with a RUNNER and the other is with a QB. So first, Dez the receiver must become Dez the runner before he can be "down by contact".

And by the way, you can't just insert another rule, when the original is inadequate. It doesn't work that way.

The original does not define a new concept of what going to the ground means. Therefore, the only NFL defined concept applies. DOWN BY CONTACT.

What DOESN'T "work that way" is assigning a new concept without describing it with the written word. Without a precise definition, you default to known concepts in the rule book. And that's how it really works. So "through the contact with the ground" means, "Through getting an elbow or knee down". If the NFL meant something else, they would have written it.

That is, if their Comedian of Officiating was competent enough to write a rule that was adequate.