The NFL's Official Change to What Is A Catch: Dez Bryant play rule rewritten *merge*

[nathanlt]

If one leaves his feet to make a catch and lands, in order on his knee, hip, arm, and then torso............if the force of any of those hitting the ground for the first time (initial contact) causes the ball to squirt away, it is an incomplete pass.

No, NO, NO!!

Initial contact is only the first time ANY part of your body touches the ground. That's usually your foot. Whichever part of the body hits the ground first is the initial contact. Whatever hits the ground after initial contact is precisely secondary contact. You are twisting what was written to introduce a concept that is not mentioned in the existing or previous language.

Newsflash, Dez caught that ball, according to the 2014-15 rulebook and the 2015-2016 rulebook.

 

[nathanlt]

My interpretation of item 1 is that all 3 A,B, and C have to be met before "going to the ground" A,B, & C are the act of catching a pass, are they not?

There is nothing written saying only A&B are the act of catching a pass, so the logical road is that all 3 are indeed the act of catching a pass. One has not completed the pass until all 3 are completed by rule 8-3.So anything short of that and item 1 applies.

Item 1, AS WRITTEN, means DEZ CAUGHT THE BALL.

 

[nathanlt]

LOL, Blandino says that as long as all 3 points are met it is a catch. There is not one word that says it has to happen before a player starts to go to the ground.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-strikes-again

1:15 mark clear as day, falling becomes relevant only if one of the 3 does not happen. Which is exactly what the rule book said in 2014, that is if you understand what the hell you are talking about.

Did you notice that IN THE VIDEO EXAMPLE, Calvin Johnson actually got two feet down, reached for the goal line, and got an elbow down a split second before the ball came out?

So even Blandino's example of what a catch is, was playing right behind him, while he pretended that it wasn't actually happening, and therefore wasn't a catch.

He literally cannot see what happens on the replays. Wow.

 

[DogFace]

Suppose a receiver leaves his feet to catch a pass and lands on his stomach, the landing spot being in the end zone. If the ball squirts far away from him because of the force of hitting the ground, C never had a chance to happen and thus it is an incomplete pass, even if his two feet hit the ground first!

Now, suppose a receiver catches a pass on the sidelines on his tippy toes in bounds and falls out of bounds on his stomach. Again the ball squirts out due to the force of hitting the ground. Two feet down inbounds, but it is still no catch because C never had a chance to happen.

Then watch the Grisham play in the Bengals chargers playoff game and you'll see this very example ruled a catch.

I believe he actually lost it before he even hit.

 

[DogFace]

8-3-item 1 says all 3 have to happen before he starts going to the ground.

Once again (a third time)why did they look for another move after he was falling?

As others have stated. The fall has NOTHING to do with the three step process unless one of the three parts wasn't fulfilled ANYTIME during the entire process.

 

[Joefrl]

The original does not define a new concept of what going to the ground means. Therefore, the only NFL defined concept applies. DOWN BY CONTACT.

What DOESN'T "work that way" is assigning a new concept without describing it with the written word. Without a precise definition, you default to known concepts in the rule book. And that's how it really works. So "through the contact with the ground" means, "Through getting an elbow or knee down". If the NFL meant something else, they would have written it.

That is, if their Comedian of Officiating was competent enough to write a rule that was adequate.

Through contact with the ground means the rule applies until one is DONE contacting the ground. Until one is through contacting the ground.

 

[Joefrl]

Item 1, AS WRITTEN, means DEZ CAUGHT THE BALL.

Item 1 , as written, says since he dropped the ball due to the force of his arms hitting the ground, it is an incomplete pass. Same as a straight out dive, no different.

 

[Joefrl]

Then watch the Grisham play in the Bengals chargers playoff game and you'll see this very example ruled a catch.

I believe he actually lost it before he even hit.

Refs are not perfect.

 

[Joefrl]

Once again (a third time)why did they look for another move after he was falling?

As others have stated. The fall has NOTHING to do with the three step process unless one of the three parts wasn't fulfilled ANYTIME during the entire process.

My interpretation of item 1 is that all 3 A,B, and C have to be met before "going to the ground" A,B, & C are the act of catching a pass, are they not?

There is nothing written saying only A&B are the act of catching a pass, so the logical road is that all 3 are indeed the act of catching a pass. One has not completed the pass (and become a runner) until all 3 are completed by rule 8-3.So anything short of that and item 1 applies.

 

[percyhoward]

Item 1 , as written, says since he dropped the ball due to the force of his arms hitting the ground, it is an incomplete pass. Same as a straight out dive, no different.

Wrong, and this is the crux of it. In a dive, the player doesn't have time to complete the catch process. So THAT is an example of when Item 1 is normally applied -- when he is still in the act of catching a pass. The replay official looks for the three requirements of a catch to be met. When they aren't, and the player is falling, he applies item 1. This describes a diving catch perfectly. Dez, of course, did not dive for the ball, and DID complete the catch process, so item 1 isn't needed.

It can't be stressed enough that there is no speculation necessary, because the official explanation of why the catch was overturned is a matter of public record. He needed to "reach with two hands or extend the ball toward the goal line."

 

[percyhoward]

Refs are not perfect.

And if you know the rules, you can tell which calls are examples of this imperfection.

 

[percyhoward]

My interpretation of item 1 is that all 3 A,B, and C have to be met before "going to the ground" A,B, & C are the act of catching a pass, are they not?

There is nothing written saying only A&B are the act of catching a pass, so the logical road is that all 3 are indeed the act of catching a pass. One has not completed the pass (and become a runner) until all 3 are completed by rule 8-3.So anything short of that and item 1 applies.

Your 2nd paragraph is dead on perfect. The only thing you're misunderstanding is that item 1 is for players going to the ground in the act of catching a pass -- NOT for players starting to fall. The football move only has to happen before you go down to the ground. It does not have to happen before you start falling. If you read the official explanations, you know from Blandino that players can make a football move while falling.

If you haven't looked into the official explanations of these plays, then you're just guessing unnecessarily.

 

[IAmLegend]

 

[Joefrl]

Your 2nd paragraph is dead on perfect. The only thing you're misunderstanding is that item 1 is for players going to the ground in the act of catching a pass -- NOT for players starting to fall. The football move only has to happen before you go down to the ground. It does not have to happen before you start falling. If you read the official explanations, you know from Blandino that players can make a football move while falling.

If you haven't looked into the official explanations of these plays, then you're just guessing unnecessarily.

8-3-item 1 is called "GOING" to the ground. It is not called Already GONE to the ground. One is GOING to the ground when they start to fall.

 

[Joefrl]

Wrong, and this is the crux of it. In a dive, the player doesn't have time to complete the catch process. So THAT is an example of when Item 1 is normally applied -- when he is still in the act of catching a pass. The replay official looks for the three requirements of a catch to be met. When they aren't, and the player is falling, he applies item 1. This describes a diving catch perfectly. Dez, of course, did not dive for the ball, and DID complete the catch process, so item 1 isn't needed.

It can't be stressed enough that there is no speculation necessary, because the official explanation of why the catch was overturned is a matter of public record. He needed to "reach with two hands or extend the ball toward the goal line."

When one starts to fall they are "going to the ground". At that point, if the process is not complete yet, item 1 applies.

In other words, in a basic play, once the tackler makes contact with the receiver, if the receiver has not already completed the process (A,B,&C) and thus become a runner, he better still be holding on to the ball after the tackle is over!

 

[blindzebra]

8-3-item 1 is called "GOING" to the ground. It is not called Already GONE to the ground. One is GOING to the ground when they start to fall.

It says a receiver in the act of catching the ball going to the ground, as in one or more of A-C has not happened then they must hold onto the ball through contact with the ground. The key word is RECEIVER. Nowhere in that rule does it say that A-C must be completed before the player begins going to the ground, but it must happen before they contact the ground. Once all 3 occur they are not a receiver they are a runner and the receiver going to the ground no longer matters.

Regardless of all that Dez completed all 3 when he turned and took a step and that was when contact with Shields started the going to the ground.

The upright long enough was not a part of the 2014 rule and was never intended to be applied, it is added now to justify a misapplied rule in GB. The Blandino video from 2013 clearly says as much.

 

[Joefrl]

It says a receiver in the act of catching the ball going to the ground, as in one or more of A-C has not happened then they must hold onto the ball through contact with the ground. The key word is RECEIVER. Nowhere in that rule does it say that A-C must be completed before the player begins going to the ground, but it must happen before they contact the ground. Once all 3 occur they are not a receiver they are a runner and the receiver going to the ground no longer matters.

Regardless of all that Dez completed all 3 when he turned and took a step and that was when contact with Shields started the going to the ground.

The upright long enough was not a part of the 2014 rule and was never intended to be applied, it is added now to justify a misapplied rule in GB. The Blandino video from 2013 clearly says as much.

"Upright long enough" now, is the same as "must have time to make a football move" then. Two ways to say the same thing.
The "must have time to make a football move" thing has always been something that has to happen before the tackler makes contact, before starting "going to the ground", unless the recevier breaks the tackle and regains balance.
Dez never turned nor took a step after two feet were down, he didn't have time for any of that. The only solid argument you might have is that he might have avoided being tripped up and wasn't touched at all until after becoming a runner. Then, Blandino's comment would make sense: "Not enough of a football move". Yes, I bet they ruled Sheilds did not trip him at all, he just didn't make enough of a football move!
I think you are partly correct! C can happen after one begins to fall.........But only if there is no defensive contact!

 

[percyhoward]

When one starts to fall they are "going to the ground". At that point, if the process is not complete yet, item 1 applies.

In other words, in a basic play, once the tackler makes contact with the receiver, if the receiver has not already completed the process (A,B,&C) and thus become a runner, he better still be holding on to the ball after the tackle is over!

Of course, we already know what is meant by going to the ground, so again, there is no reason to speculate. If you really want to understand these plays, look into the league's official explanations. Catch up with the rest of us information-wise. You'll be better able to address the points being made, and you won't be at such a disadvantage in the debate.

 

[percyhoward]

"Upright long enough" now, is the same as "must have time to make a football move" then. Two ways to say the same thing.
The "must have time to make a football move" thing has always been something that has to happen before the tackler makes contact, before starting "going to the ground", unless the recevier breaks the tackle and regains balance.
Dez never turned nor took a step after two feet were down, he didn't have time for any of that. The only solid argument you might have is that he might have avoided being tripped up and wasn't touched at all until after becoming a runner. Then, Blandino's comment would make sense: "Not enough of a football move". Yes, I bet they ruled Sheilds did not trip him at all, he just didn't make enough of a football move!
I think you are partly correct! C can happen after one begins to fall.........But only if there is no defensive contact!

Now let me be at least the second person in this thread to refer you to the Gresham catch in the 2013 playoffs. All the information we need is out there.

 

[nathanlt]

"Upright long enough" now, is the same as "must have time to make a football move" then. Two ways to say the same thing.
The "must have time to make a football move" thing has always been something that has to happen before the tackler makes contact, before starting "going to the ground", unless the recevier breaks the tackle and regains balance.
Dez never turned nor took a step after two feet were down, he didn't have time for any of that. The only solid argument you might have is that he might have avoided being tripped up and wasn't touched at all until after becoming a runner. Then, Blandino's comment would make sense: "Not enough of a football move". Yes, I bet they ruled Sheilds did not trip him at all, he just didn't make enough of a football move!
I think you are partly correct! C can happen after one begins to fall.........But only if there is no defensive contact!

Dez turned his body more than 90 degrees to sheild off the defender.
Dez performed 7 football moves.
Dez had time enough to make a football move.
Dez got each elbow down before the ball came loose.
Dez caught the ball TEN different ways, not just one.

Watch the play.
Read the rules, ignore the speeches.
Don't discuss next years rule with Dez 's CATCH.