The NFL's Official Change to What Is A Catch: Dez Bryant play rule rewritten *merge*

[blindzebra]

Falling is falling. That's what you guys don't get. Football move has ALWAYS been intended to mean that the player is not falling. That the player can cut, run, progress be in control. NOT FALLING.

You can do many cool and athletic things while falling. Dez was able to do things while falling that many cant. Could of he pitched the ball? Probably. Can someone tackle someone while falling? Sure. Can you stumble and reach and flip over while falling? Yes. But you are still FALLING.

It is clear as day, to me anyway, that in the second that the play took, Dez was falling to the ground after the ball touched his hands. Since he is going to the ground it doesn't matter what else he can or can not do with the ball. He has to maintain control through the act of contacting the ground.

Yep keep ignoring the case book play where a move common to the game completes the A-C process while falling.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

 

[BlindFaith]

Yep keep ignoring the case book play where a move common to the game completes the A-C process while falling. he braces himself

So define brace. I saw a pretty good definition of it in this very thread. Dez did not brace himself. Bracing would mean firmly controlling himself, recovering/impeding the fall. He did not do that. He did lunge, but it was not done simultaneously to a brace, because the brace never occurred.

Brace - To support or hold steady with or as if with a brace

Dez did not support himself or hold himself steady during the fall.

Are the rules written well? No.

 

[TwentyOne]

Tweets combined from Mike Pereira on the rule change:

Dez Bryant play..rule rewritten. New word like "initial" contact with ground. Football move is gone. Bottom line its clearly incomplete Here is the rule. it will take a few tweets.

"A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough...to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass(with or without contact by an opponent),he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the End zone. If he loses control of the ball and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."

There you have it. Now are you less confused?

My take:

So they changed the ambiguous move common to the game to an extremely vague upright long enough to fix it. What a load of crap. They took away everything that made it a catch and replaced it with a ridiculous term that has no clear cut boundaries. Clearly this show without any doubt that Blandino, because of the heat he got from the Detroit game and the re-surfacing of the party bus, had no intentions of having any reviews go for Dallas in that GB game. It was rigged and they changed a poorly written rule into a more confusing one, just so the rule fits the overturn.

I never understood why some said it was a catch.

The
-> "2 steps" rule to make it a completion and the rule
-> that you have maintain control over the ball all the time when you're going to the ground in the process of making a catch

are two seperate rules for two completly different situations. You cant use them both in the same situation (like some wanted to do with the Dez-Catch).

 

[blindzebra]

So define brace. I saw a pretty good definition of it in this very thread. Dez did not brace himself. Bracing would mean firmly controlling himself, recovering/impeding the fall. He did not do that. He did lunge, but it was not done simultaneously to a brace, because the brace never occurred.

Brace - To support or hold steady with or as if with a brace

Dez did not support himself or hold himself steady during the fall.

Are the rules written well? No.

Oh, brother the length you go to dodge the facts is amazing.

After he caught it and landed on two feet he turned, stepped, changed the ball from one hand to two, put down his right hand to brace while pushing off his left foot, and extended the ball. Any one of which completed the A-C process. Explain this to me on the brace and lunge...if Dez was just falling why did his left leg go from bent at the knee to straight? Why did this take place in sync with his right arm contacting the ground? Why would he move the ball from two hands to one if he was not attempting to reach the end zone?

 

[blindzebra]

I never understood why some said it was a catch.

The
-> "2 steps" rule to make it a completion and the rule
-> that you have maintain control over the ball all the time when you're going to the ground in the process of making a catch

are two seperate rules for two completly different situations. You cant use them both in the same situation (like some wanted to do with the Dez-Catch).

Hmmm, yes you can.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

 

[BlindFaith]

Yep keep ignoring the case book play where a move common to the game completes the A-C process while falling.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

And I think you are looking at the old rules. I see no mention of this in the current rule book.

 

[blindzebra]

And I think you are looking at the old rules. I see no mention of this in the current rule book.

That is from the last OFFICIAL NFL CASE BOOK there were no rule or point of emphasis changes in the catch rules since that case book came out...that is the smoking gun in this debate, and completely fits in the comments made by Seratore and Blandino after the game where they commented on a football move.

 

[BlindFaith]

Oh, brother the length you go to dodge the facts is amazing.

After he caught it and landed on two feet he turned, stepped, changed the ball from one hand to two, put down his right hand to brace while pushing off his left foot, and extended the ball. Any one of which completed the A-C process. Explain this to me on the brace and lunge...if Dez was just falling why did his left leg go from bent at the knee to straight? Why did this take place in sync with his right arm contacting the ground? Why would he move the ball from two hands to one if he was not attempting to reach the end zone?

Seriously? You are fighting a position that is in the minority, at best. The individuals who wright the actual rules to the game completely disagree with you. And yet I'm dodging facts?

See the problem is, he never caught the ball. So there is never a "after he caught it". The ball was in his hands. Yes. But while the ball hits him in the hands he is falling. End of story.

I don't care what you think he did or didn't do while falling. I don't care about knees, or elbows. I don't care if they were straight or bent. I don't care about reaches, or lunges or any of it Why? Because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because he was FALLING.

If he would have ever regained/braced/established himself as a runner, then everything you said would be applicable. But he didn't.

 

[BlindFaith]

That is from the last OFFICIAL NFL CASE BOOK there were no rule or point of emphasis changes in the catch rules since that case book came out...that is the smoking gun in this debate, and completely fits in the comments made by Seratore and Blandino after the game where they commented on a football move.

Well, I don't see any "case book" for 2013, 2014 or 2015. Just the rule book. Which doesn't mention your example at all.

And it doesn't really matter anyway. Dez didn't brace himself.

 

[blindzebra]

And where was the language about being upright long enough in 2014? The people that right the rules are covering their *** and changed the rule to fit the overturn.

 

[blindzebra]

Well, I don't see any "case book" for 2013, 2014 or 2015. Just the rule book. Which doesn't mention your example at all.

And it doesn't really matter anyway. Dez didn't brace himself.

Ridiculous. They don't print case books every year. That case play was current in 2014 and did show that A-C trumps going to the ground. And the fact that Blandino replaced part C with something that was never in the rules before with upright long enough proves beyond any doubt that the call had nothing to do with the rules and everything to do with the heat Blandino got all week from the DET game and the party bus scandal.

 

[BlindFaith]

And where was the language about being upright long enough in 2014? The people that right the rules are covering their *** and changed the rule to fit the overturn.

There was - maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

You are simply trying to distort what the intent of the rule was to have meant. I tried explaining this to you in the other thread. Act Common to the Game. But again, it doesn't really matter because he was FALLING while in the act of catching the pass.

If he were to be able to position and undo the laws of gravity in order to do what we all understand to be an Act Common to the Game, it would have been a catch. You are lumping up falling and all the things he did while falling. You cant do both. You're falling, you're not falling or you stop yourself from falling. Dez fell and never stopped himself from falling.

 

[BlindFaith]

Ridiculous. They don't print case books every year. That case play was current in 2014 and did show that A-C trumps going to the ground. And the fact that Blandino replaced part C with something that was never in the rules before with upright long enough proves beyond any doubt that the call had nothing to do with the rules and everything to do with the heat Blandino got all week from the DET game and the party bus scandal.

Wow, you're giving Blandino a whole lot of power. I'd put more stock into Jeff Fisher and the NFL Competition committee having the say as to how it should be worded.

 

[blindzebra]

Well, I don't see any "case book" for 2013, 2014 or 2015. Just the rule book. Which doesn't mention your example at all.

And it doesn't really matter anyway. Dez didn't brace himself.

There was - maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

You are simply trying to distort what the intent of the rule was to have meant. I tried explaining this to you in the other thread. Act Common to the Game. But again, it doesn't really matter because he was FALLING while in the act of catching the pass.

If he were to be able to position and undo the laws of gravity in order to do what we all understand to be an Act Common to the Game, it would have been a catch. You are lumping up falling and all the things he did while falling. You cant do both. You're falling, you're not falling or you stop yourself from falling. Dez fell and never stopped himself from falling.

I am distorting what the intent of the rule is, that is rich.

 

[BlindFaith]

I am distorting what the intent of the rule is, that is rich.

Just the fact. Ok, I'm done with this. I was just bored.

 

[blindzebra]

Wow, you're giving Blandino a whole lot of power. I'd put more stock into Jeff Fisher and the NFL Competition committee having the say as to how it should be worded.

And what is clear cut about upright long enough? How is that more clear than a move common to the game?

By your interpretation a player can jump, catch, land on two feet, take 20 stumbling steps and fall and it would be incomplete.

 

[Joefrl]

Yep keep ignoring the case book play where a move common to the game completes the A-C process while falling.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

Keep ignoring the fact that that is not in the 2013 or 2014 books. It was taken out for a reason.

 

[Joefrl]

And what is clear cut about upright long enough? How is that more clear than a move common to the game?

By your interpretation a player can jump, catch, land on two feet, take 20 stumbling steps and fall and it would be incomplete.

It is simple to me, When did he lose balance? Was he a runner yet at that point? If not, yes it is incomplete.

 

[blindzebra]

Keep ignoring the fact that that is not in the 2013 or 2014 books. It was taken out for a reason.

You do know the difference between a rule book and a case book right, old rules master?

Blindfaith leaves and his parrot returns...hmmmmm

 

[blindzebra]

It is simple to me, When did he lose balance? Was he a runner yet at that point? If not, yes it is incomplete.

After he turned and took a 3rd step and was tripped by Shields.