The NFL's Official Change to What Is A Catch: Dez Bryant play rule rewritten *merge*

[DogFace]

No, I am one of those "indisputable means indisputable" guys. 99% indisputable isn't good enough for me, it has to be 100% indisputable, before I reverse a call. Sometimes mistakes can't be fixed. The Dez play should not have been reversed regardless of the call on the field. It was one of those that should not have been fixed.
8-3-item 1 and item 2, 8-4-note and Example A.R. 8.9 all support my case 100% that he needed to satisfy the definition of a catch before he began to fall.
Whether he did that IS disputable if he was NOT tripped up by Shields. If Dez was tripped up, it is a incomplete pass without any doubt because of everything I mentioned above.
Whether he was tripped or not was inconclusive as well. That's where 8-4-note comes into play.

The examples you give aren't like the Dez play.

 

[Joefrl]

The bottom line is in the Blind zebra post and has been in several posts. You keep changing the subject and not confronting this fact: Nohwere in the rules does it say the 3 parts of the catch process has to be completed before one stops falling. You've been given examples with video links and pictures showing you this. You've provided exactly **** in the form of evidence backing up your dumb assumptions. Besides some vague recollection of a play that happened 20 years ago or whenever.

You've lost this debate. Some on here that have proven your argument wrong have stopped because its pointless.

No where does it say you must complete the 3 step process before you start to fall. Blind zebra even gave you the rule where the example was nearly identical to the Dez catch. You ignored it and brought up your lame 8-3 rule crap you think, for some unknown reason, supercedes the 3 step process that completes a catch. It doesn't.

The officials made a mistake. The NFL, by rewriting the rule, confirmed the mistake.

Read every rule and example I put out there very carefully. Notice none of them leave open the possibility of a football move after one starts going to the ground. If you were right, all of those ruled and the example would be wrong, and we know they are not.

 

[Joefrl]

The examples you give aren't like the Dez play.

They don't have to be exact, just similar. Same rules apply.

 

[DogFace]

They don't have to be exact, just similar. Same rules apply.

If they don't then why do they have different examples and one that's almost EXACTLY like the Dez catch.
Your examples aren't similar other than there's a pass involved.

 

[DogFace]

Read every rule and example I put out there very carefully. Notice none of them leave open the possibility of a football move after one starts going to the ground. If you were right, all of those ruled and the example would be wrong, and we know they are not.

Notice the example you were given is exactly like the Dez catch. Go back and read it again. Slowly and to yourself so you don't disturb the other kids.

Neither of your insignificant examples excludes a football move going to the ground. The example you were given demonstrates a football move after the fall was started. The reason your examples don't is because they aren't like the Dez play. Completely differnt things happened. That's why you never commented on the rule with the example you were given.

All goes back to why were the refs looking for a move after the fall if it didn't matter. Your answer was not good. Try again Or don't who cares. You're lacking a basic ability to understand the rules even after they are explained to you by the refs as well as us.

 

[DogFace]

They don't have to be exact, just similar. Same rules apply.

Answer Blindzebras last post. I know you don't like to because he uses the rule book. Which I'm guessing you think you're some authority on.
http://cowboyszone.com/threads/dallas-cowboys-logo-rated-no-1-in-american-sports.327814/

 

[Joefrl]

I won't argue the semantics of time to brace. When talking about a football move a attempt at a brace does mean he had time to do a move. That doesn't matter either because he clearly braced himself. Now you are an authority on when a brace actually becomes a brace? That's laughable if it wasn't so dumb.

Did he ever stop his fall? NO! Then there was no brace!

 

[DogFace]

Did he ever stop his fall? NO! Then there was no brace!

Here's one more definition. I've now given two. You provide one next that says "you must stop" for a brace to occur.

Brace: to give added physical SUPPORT to something.
Now I'll use it in a sentence for you.

Dez used his arm to BRACE his fall.

 

[DogFace]

Did he ever stop his fall? NO! Then there was no brace!

And answer the questions you've been asked and stop changing the subject.

 

[Joefrl]

The examples you give aren't like the Dez play.

The example AR 8.9 is almost identical to the Dez play, WAKE UP PEOPLE! The only difference is Dez landed on his arms, not his shoulder. Guess what, it does not matter what he landed on, same rules apply!
Stop making up football moves. Run, Pitch/Pass, Dive (like Thomas did), Are football moves and that's about it. Breaking a tackle or avoiding a tackle are part of running......Dez did none of these and he certainly didn't dive like Thomas did. That is the only grey area, but it is not good enough. Stop grasping at straws!

 

[DogFace]

The example AR 8.9 is almost identical to the Dez play, WAKE UP PEOPLE! The only difference is Dez landed on his arms, not his shoulder. Guess what, it does not matter what he landed on, same rules apply!
Stop making up football moves. Run, Pitch/Pass, Dive (like Thomas did), Are football moves and that's about it. Breaking a tackle or avoiding a tackle are part of running......Dez did none of these and he certainly didn't dive like Thomas did. That is the only grey area, but it is not good enough. Stop grasping at straws!

Wake up? The example you gave was a player landing on his shoulder. No mention of three steps first.

How do you see that as the same?

 

[DogFace]

The example AR 8.9 is almost identical to the Dez play, WAKE UP PEOPLE! The only difference is Dez landed on his arms, not his shoulder. Guess what, it does not matter what he landed on, same rules apply!
Stop making up football moves. Run, Pitch/Pass, Dive (like Thomas did), Are football moves and that's about it. Breaking a tackle or avoiding a tackle are part of running......Dez did none of these and he certainly didn't dive like Thomas did. That is the only grey area, but it is not good enough. Stop grasping at straws!

you don't have to make the move, which he did several times anyway, for the 59th time:YOU HAVE TO HAVE TIME TO MAKE A MOVE
Switching the ball from the shoulder to two hands to one are some examples demonstrating he had time to make the move. Which he did. Several times.

 

[DogFace]

The example AR 8.9 is almost identical to the Dez play, WAKE UP PEOPLE! The only difference is Dez landed on his arms, not his shoulder. Guess what, it does not matter what he landed on, same rules apply!
Stop making up football moves. Run, Pitch/Pass, Dive (like Thomas did), Are football moves and that's about it. Breaking a tackle or avoiding a tackle are part of running......Dez did none of these and he certainly didn't dive like Thomas did. That is the only grey area, but it is not good enough. Stop grasping at straws!

Do you feel you can change the definition of a word(brace) to fit your agenda?

I've given you two demotions. Neither say anything about stopping.

Brace: to give added physical support

Brace: to make your body or part of it, stiff or strong in order to do something that requires a lot of physical effort.

Like make first downs

 

[DogFace]

The example AR 8.9 is almost identical to the Dez play, WAKE UP PEOPLE! The only difference is Dez landed on his arms, not his shoulder. Guess what, it does not matter what he landed on, same rules apply!
Stop making up football moves. Run, Pitch/Pass, Dive (like Thomas did), Are football moves and that's about it. Breaking a tackle or avoiding a tackle are part of running......Dez did none of these and he certainly didn't dive like Thomas did. That is the only grey area, but it is not good enough. Stop grasping at straws!

Now I've answered your silly questions. Answer mine if you can. Or just use your avoidance tactic more. I like it. It's fun.

 

[DogFace]

 

[Joefrl]

If they don't then why do they have different examples and one that's almost EXACTLY like the Dez catch.
Your examples aren't similar other than there's a pass involved.

There's a pass, there's control in midair, There's a receiver going to the ground, never stopping his fall, there's a recever dropping the upon hitting the ground. Again, identical to the example except for which body part hit first which does not matter. Open your eyes.

 

[blindzebra]

For anyone out there who is confused by this trolls misuse of the rule book:

Case plays are intended to illustrate the rule. The reason there are multiple case plays is because there are multiple ways that the rule might have to be applied.

The rule book says a player must A) control the ball B) get 2 feet in bounds C) have time to or make a move common to the game in order for it to be a catch and a receiver becomes a runner. Simple enough, but then it adds notes.

Item 1: A player going to the ground must maintain control of the ball through contact with the ground.
What does this mean? Well, trolls will tell you it is the end all of all rules, but it isn't. Items are exceptions for when the actual rule above is not or will not be met.

For example:

The sideline: A player must have control and 2 feet in. So you will have a case play where a foot lands on the sideline and it will be incomplete.
Now a player falling OOB must meet the control and 2 feet and then maintain control after he hits the ground. Now a certain troll will use this as an example as to why Dez's catch was overturned, when it does not apply because a player going OOB will not and can not make a football move to complete the process.

The end zone: A player must have control and 2 feet in bounds. Again you will find case plays where a foot lands on the sideline. Now a player falling in the end zone must control the ball through contact with the ground. Now our neighborhood troll will say see Dez's play was incomplete. Again what football move is to be made in the end zone?

Then you will see case plays in the field of play: The 8.9 play that our rule misuser keeps writing has an airborne player catching a pass and going directly to the ground. Of course item 1 applies because in this case only part A of the 3 step process is met. You will find case plays where one foot is down. You will find case plays where 2 feet are down. But the one thing they all have in common is that A-C were not met before the player hit the ground.

Then there is case book play 8.12 from the last Official NFL Case Book: This case book includes 8.9 as well, but of course joefrl has not read it, he only used the few examples in the Rule Book and not all possible scenarios where Item 1 is used.

8.12 says a player catches the ball in 2 hands and lands on 1 foot, is contacted by the defender which causes him to go to the ground, after starting to the ground he gets a 2nd foot down, he then braces himself with his right arm and pushes off his 2nd foot down and lunges for the end zone. Ruling COMPLETED CATCH. This case play is important for three reasons. One, it establishes that the A-C process still applies to a player going to the ground. Two, that the A-C process does not have to occur before the fall starts. Three, the play is almost identical to what happened in GB. In fact the differences in GB make it even more of a catch. Unlike the case play Dez landed on two feet, so at that point both A and B were met. At that point Dez turns his body toward the end zone and takes a step. This is critical because a turn and step establish part C. But it does not end there, Dez also switches the ball from two hands to one. A player still catching a ball will not do that will they? No, that also establishes part C. From this point the Dez play mirrors the case play with an arm down to brace and a lunge toward the goal line, again completing the A-C catch process and making Item 1 moot.

In anticipation of the ignoring response:

The one area where I agree to a certain extent is how wordy the rules are and the fact that 8.12 was not in the rule book examples was a mistake in the rule book, but does not mean it still did not apply.

There were no rule or point of emphasis changes to the catch rules in 2013 or 2014 so the case plays in the 2012 case book still applied. Which is supported by the Blandino video in this thread, as well as the comments including a football move from both Blandino and Seratore after the game.

 

[KJJ]

Glad I bailed on this thread a couple of weeks ago and decided to give someone the last word for a change. LOL This thread may still be going by the time the Cowboys play Green Bay again in Dec.

 

[AsthmaField]

Glad I bailed on this thread a couple of weeks ago and decided to give someone the last word for a change. LOL This thread may still be going by the time the Cowboys play Green Bay again in Dec.

Well, it's not as if there is anything else going on in the NFL to talk about.

I'm sure this thread will die down once Training Camp starts.

 

[DallasEast]

"Glad I bailed on this thread a couple of weeks ago." (wink wink)