The one player missing syndrome v the cap

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,138
Reaction score
24,870
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I agree . Jimmy received more credit than he should have. The media spun that as well.

Jimmy hasn't got enough credit. As we can clearly see from 23 years of Jerry taking over personnel, what jimmy did taking over an NFL team from college and building a 3 time super bowl champ was quite a feat. Jimmy left Dallas with so much talent that even a retired coach could make it look easy.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,380
Reaction score
36,549
Jimmy hasn't got enough credit. As we can clearly see from 23 years of Jerry taking over personnel, what jimmy did taking over an NFL team from college and building a 3 time super bowl champ was quite a feat. Jimmy left Dallas with so much talent that even a retired coach could make it look easy.
I agree but it wouldn’t have been possible if Jerry didn’t rubber stamp the deals.

For example , Im not sure Tex or Tom would have traded Hershel. How does that deal change things. Or the Haley deal.

Jerry deserves more credit than he received and still should be bashed for ending their relationship early. Worst decision in Jerry era. Unfortunately it’s spurred almost 25 years of Jerry feeling he needs to prove himself.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,966
Reaction score
64,429
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
The Cowboys are on the precipice of doing what no team has done in the cap era, having 4 players in the top 5 in salary and 3 of them offensive skill positions, the highest paid triplets in NFL history are on the horizon and what makes that even worse is that the owner will be proud of that. Loves those stars in his eyes.

What happened in 2015 when the QB went down? 4-12 What happened when the RB was out? 9-7 What happened when they didn't have a WR1? 3-5.

This coaching staff and team have proven they struggle to overcome just one key player and this team is getting ready to be the poster child for the Too Much to Too Few team.

If you've played Fantasy Football, you know the value of the injury report. And any FF player will tell you the two positions that are on there the most are the RB's and WR's. And using Elliott's lack of injury history as the case to extend is foolhardy.

I do not see any way around not extending the QB because of the lack of options and the same can be said for the WR position, we've seen the team without one. But sign all 3 and this team, with this coaching staff not good at overcoming injuries, and the Cowboys are playing Injury Roulette. They're already spinning that wheel with the DE.

QB injury is an issue for most teams most years. I prefer keeping developmental types like they've done the past couple of years over keeping stop gap veterans that probably won't win much anyway.

The Cowboys didn't really have replacements for Aikman, Emmitt or Irvin back when they won 3 Super Bowls.

Developing quality depth is critical.

That might mean keeping more developmental players and less stop gap veterans.

That could mean keeping a young developing player at WR over a stop gap like Hurns.

If Cooper misses significant time, having Hurns is not going to matter; however, next season if they've developed a young WR into a player that really could play like a legit starter for a few games then that's real depth.

They drafted OG McGovern which probably means Connor Williams plays RT in 2020 and they don't pay La'el.

The Pats have 13M of cap space devoted to RBs.

The Cowboys have Zeke under contract for 2 more years. They need to make certain to build depth behind Zeke with draft picks.

It all comes back to drafting well. If they draft well then the depth and future starters will come from the draft which means they'll be low cost players for 4 years.

The Seahawks gave big contracts to both Safeties a few years back. They Cowboys are unlikely to spend big money there.
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,138
Reaction score
24,870
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I agree but it wouldn’t have been possible if Jerry didn’t rubber stamp the deals.

For example , Im not sure Tex or Tom would have traded Hershel. How does that deal change things. Or the Haley deal.

Jerry deserves more credit than he received and still should be bashed for ending their relationship early. Worst decision in Jerry era. Unfortunately it’s spurred almost 25 years of Jerry feeling he needs to prove himself.

Most of the NFL owners are hands off. You think Kraft isn't rubber stamping everything Belechik wants? Rubber stamping deals is not a talent. Jimmy is the inventor of the Hershel Walker deal, and he had final say over the roster. Had Jerry put up a road block, its likely Jimmy would have been back coaching college football the following year, and we'd be looking at a super bowl drought stretching back to 1978.

Jerry does get credit for selling the trade to Hershel and giving him a 1 million dollar parting gift. There is no question that Tex and Landry would never have thought of trading Walker for draft picks. Such trades are common now, but in 1989, that trade was way outside the box thinking. It was so brilliant and unexpected that even a smart guy like Mike Lynn got duped
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,380
Reaction score
36,549
Most of the NFL owners are hands off. You think Kraft isn't rubber stamping everything Belechik wants? Rubber stamping deals is not a talent. Jimmy is the inventor of the Hershel Walker deal, and he had final say over the roster. Had Jerry put up a road block, its likely Jimmy would have been back coaching college football the following year, and we'd be looking at a super bowl drought stretching back to 1978.

Jerry does get credit for selling the trade to Hershel and giving him a 1 million dollar parting gift. There is no question that Tex and Landry would never have thought of trading Walker for draft picks. Such trades are common now, but in 1989, that trade was way outside the box thinking. It was so brilliant and unexpected that even a smart guy like Mike Lynn got duped
Id agree but Jerry still deserves credit for making what Jimmy wanted to happen. For example after going to Miami Jimmy wanted to trade Marino for a blockbuster deal but their owner Herzog wouldn’t agree.

If the Herschel deal isn’t done it slows the process and who knows if the results are the same. Jimmys aggressive style was supported by Jerry. It was a formidable combination.

Jerry did all the right things in the beginning and should have received more credit. If he would have we might not be in the situation we are today. Just saying...
 

atlantacowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,138
Reaction score
24,870
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Id agree but Jerry still deserves credit for making what Jimmy wanted to happen. For example after going to Miami Jimmy wanted to trade Marino for a blockbuster deal but their owner Herzog wouldn’t agree.

If the Herschel deal isn’t done it slows the process and who knows if the results are the same. Jimmys aggressive style was supported by Jerry. It was a formidable combination.

Jerry did all the right things in the beginning and should have received more credit. If he would have we might not be in the situation we are today. Just saying...

Jerry played his proper role in the beginning. Obviously , he deserves credit as does everyone who had a hand building those teams. The "break up" was not about credit. Jerry wanted to be respected in the locker room above all else. He wanted to sit in the room with coaches and be heard and respected as a peer....a football man. He resented the snickering behind his back when he made effort to move beyond his proper role on the team.
 

Johnny23

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,338
Reaction score
1,757
I think there is one key component you're leaving out of the equation, and that is the potential availability of better candidates. Namely two in Sean Payton and Lincoln Riley. There was plenty of talk and speculation that the team might have done something with one of those guys this year. And I believe that there was some measure of substance to it. And I feel if it lines up and either or both are available next year, a change happens. I think that reality, as much as anything else, is why the team consciously chose not to extend Garrett.
You guys need to stop with the Payton and Riley pipe dreams. Get over it. And snap into reality neither is coming here. It's like when Cowboys fans on the official forum were all Nick Saban's cool with Belichick and Jason Garrett he is gonna leave Bama and Jason will become GM. He will.lead us to the promise lamd again.

Pure fantasy!
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,380
Reaction score
102,324
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
You guys need to stop with the Payton and Riley pipe dreams. Get over it. And snap into reality neither is coming here. It's like when Cowboys fans on the official forum were all Nick Saban's cool with Belichick and Jason Garrett he is gonna leave Bama and Jason will become GM. He will.lead us to the promise lamd again.

Pure fantasy!

We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,380
Reaction score
36,549
You guys need to stop with the Payton and Riley pipe dreams. Get over it. And snap into reality neither is coming here. It's like when Cowboys fans on the official forum were all Nick Saban's cool with Belichick and Jason Garrett he is gonna leave Bama and Jason will become GM. He will.lead us to the promise lamd again.

Pure fantasy!
Yea

I’d make a wager with any of them claiming such. It’s just noise that’s been created with their spin of the events.
 

Johnny23

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,338
Reaction score
1,757
Yea

I’d make a wager with any of them claiming such. It’s just noise that’s been created with their spin of the events.
Absolutely. Guys like Riley and Payton are control freaks. You notice their teams take on their personality and they have alot of say. Mickey Loomis even as Saints GM answers to Sean and Riley has the pick of the liter coaching at Oklahoma and recruiting five stars by the droves. Until a guy coaches in the pros you don't know how he's going to relate to grown men. Saban has deliberately not come back to the NFL because his authoritarian schtick gets old with grown adult men. I am not sure Riley even though the spread is the new thing could be successful in the NFL. I mean I am skeptical of Kingsbury in Arizona as the young hot shot spread guy. He might succeed and just be a mediocre college coach.

I think people are so desperate for change when it comes to the fanbase that we generally run with every off the cuff comments Jerry makes being his people person media friendly self.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,380
Reaction score
36,549
Absolutely. Guys like Riley and Payton are control freaks. You notice their teams take on their personality and they have alot of say. Mickey Loomis even as Saints GM answers to Sean and Riley has the pick of the liter coaching at Oklahoma and recruiting five stars by the droves. Until a guy coaches in the pros you don't know how he's going to relate to grown men. Saban has deliberately not come back to the NFL because his authoritarian schtick gets old with grown adult men. I am not sure Riley even though the spread is the new thing could be successful in the NFL. I mean I am skeptical of Kingsbury in Arizona as the young hot shot spread guy. He might succeed and just be a mediocre college coach.

I think people are so desperate for change when it comes to the fanbase that we generally run with every off the cuff comments Jerry makes being his people person media friendly self.
Following Jerry’s self promotional and eternal optimistic rhetoric is a vicious cycle.
 

Johnny23

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,338
Reaction score
1,757
Following Jerry’s self promotional and eternal optimistic rhetoric is a vicious cycle.
It is indeed. I have a similar personality type so at times I have to realize he's being candid and just giving his thoughts. Not that it's something to set in stone.
 

Jake

Beyond tired of Jerry
Messages
36,067
Reaction score
84,350
Jerry was a part of our last Super Bowl run but he didn’t seem pleased he didn’t receive as much credit as Jimmy did. How did you perceive that situation?

I perceived it as Jerry still had enough of Jimmy's leftovers that even Barry Switzer could win a SB.

I agree . Jimmy received more credit than he should have. The media spun that as well.

Jerry would have nothing to show for 30 years if he hadn't hired Jimmy - the best personnel decision Jerry has made in the NFL. They went from a train wreck to the best in the NFL in 4 years under Jimmy's tutelage. Tell yourself Jerry built that then ignore the last 20+ years if it helps you sleep at night.

Meanwhile, Jimmy's been sitting in a TV studio for the last 15+ years and he's won as many trophies as Jerry and his son (who was handed a title he never actually earned). But yeah, Jimmy - a guy who also won a championship as a college coach before coming to Dallas - got too much credit. :muttley:
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
44,613
Reaction score
47,466
I agree but it wouldn’t have been possible if Jerry didn’t rubber stamp the deals.

For example , Im not sure Tex or Tom would have traded Hershel. How does that deal change things. Or the Haley deal.

Jerry deserves more credit than he received and still should be bashed for ending their relationship early. Worst decision in Jerry era. Unfortunately it’s spurred almost 25 years of Jerry feeling he needs to prove himself.
If by rubber stamping you mean getting the hades out of the way and letting someone do the job that has a clue, I agree.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,380
Reaction score
36,549
I perceived it as Jerry still had enough of Jimmy's leftovers that even Barry Switzer could win a SB.



Jerry would have nothing to show for 30 years if he hadn't hired Jimmy - the best personnel decision Jerry has made in the NFL. They went from a train wreck to the best in the NFL in 4 years under Jimmy's tutelage. Tell yourself Jerry built that then ignore the last 20+ years if it helps you sleep at night.

Meanwhile, Jimmy's been sitting in a TV studio for the last 15+ years and he's won as many trophies as Jerry and his son (who was handed a title he never actually earned). But yeah, Jimmy - a guy who also won a championship as a college coach before coming to Dallas - got too much credit. :muttley:
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying Jerry deserved more credit for his part as GM and owner providing Jimmy everything he needed. And making the deals.

Giving Jerry more credit for his contributions is not IMO taking any credit away from Jimmy.

My bigger point is without Jerry making the deals Jimmy doesn’t have as much success or as fast.

We saw after Jimmy moved to Miami, Herzog didn’t support Jimmy with everything he wanted and didn’t have as much success.

Not many who are bigger critics and what’s transpired since Jimmy left but while I bashed Jerry for letting his ego get in the way with Jimmys departure I thought as a result he wasn’t given enough credit for his part in the success with Jimmy. And that has fueled Jerry’s determination since to prove he’s more of a Football Guy.
 
Last edited:

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,380
Reaction score
36,549
If by rubber stamping you mean getting the hades out of the way and letting someone do the job that has a clue, I agree.
Yes that’s part of it but rubber stamping deals is doing his part in supporting Jimmys need.

Jerry should get more credit for doing everything in his power to make those deals Jimmy wanted. Not all owners do like we saw Herzog in Miami not provide Jimmy everything he wanted.
 
Top