The one thing I hope Jerry & company learn from the Roy Williams trade

[wileedog]

That's a pretty solid, 1, 3, and 4 option, all gained cheaply.

In fairness, playing the lottery isn't a dependable form of income either.

For every one of these guys there are the Stanback's and Alexander Wrights and even Hurd that never pan out and eat up roster spaces for a few years until we find that out.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

I know this is hard for some to believe, but Jerry isnt the sole person to "blame" if the RW trade dosnt work out. We have coaches and scouts who all looked at film on this guy, just like they look at film on every other player they think about acquiring.

Jerry may have pulled the trigger, but others helped load the gun.

Everytime something doesnt work out, you want to pin that solely on Jerry. When something does, it was either luck or to someone else's credit.

You could be right to a point but Jerry has said HE makes all the final decisions. I will never buy Parcells was on board with signing owens, no matter how many times Jurha says he was.

 

[MissionCoach]

What gets me is that this is the SECOND time that Jerry got hosed on a WR trade...you would think he would have learned the first time

 

[yimyammer]

I know this is hard for some to believe, but Jerry isnt the sole person to "blame" if the RW trade dosnt work out. We have coaches and scouts who all looked at film on this guy, just like they look at film on every other player they think about acquiring.

Jerry may have pulled the trigger, but others helped load the gun.

Everytime something doesnt work out, you want to pin that solely on Jerry. When something does, it was either luck or to someone else's credit.

I'm guilty of doing this but that's because the moment he bought the team he said he was responsible for everything from jocks to socks.

I also admit I don't know the inner machinations of how things get done. I get my negative impressions of Jerry from the years following Jimmy where it certainly appeared like Jerry was a bull in a china shop with no one to reign him in. Then, oddly enough, Parcells comes along, things change drastically and our talent improves leaps and bounds. I don't know exactly what changed, but something definately changed and I think a lot of it had to do with Jerry not being able to play fantasy football with the team anymore.

I'm not being argumentative, but do you know exactly (or generally) how the Roy Williams trade came about? If so, how did this deal get done? Who initiated it? Was it the coaches and scouts that brought it to Jerry and he said "Ok, let's do it" or vice versa?

This deal reeked of other deals Jerry has done where it certainly appeared it was initiated and pulled off largely by Jerry with his staff having to go along for the ride because either Jerry wouldn't listen to those opposing the move or the people with the expertise to know didn't have the courage or ability to convince him it was a bad or too risky deal.

Having said that, I've tried to give Jerry credit for the things I think he's done well like hiring Jimmy, hiring Parcells, making drastic changes this off season (but from what I've read, this wasn't something he wanted to do) sticking with the current staff for the sake of continuity and his willingness to sign and pay players (although I think he needs to work on using the prestige of playing for the Cowboys to enable him to get better prices and Cowboy frendly contracts).

I'm still not convinced he's become a good talent evaluator, but I hope I'm wrong.

I will say I think he's done his best coaching job ever this year including his off season moves and changes.

 

[RainMan]

I'm guilty of doing this and I admit I don't know the inner machinations of how things get done. I get my negative impressions of Jerry from the years following Jimmy where it certainly appeared like Jerry was a bull in a china shop with no one to reign him in. Then, oddly enough, Parcells comes along, things change drastically and our talent improves leaps and bounds. I don't know exactly what changed, but something definately changed and I think a lot of it had to do with Jerry not being able to play fantasy football with the team anymore.

I'm not being argumentative, but do you know exactly (or generally) how the Roy Williams trade came about? If so, how did this deal get done? Who initiated it? Was it the coaches and scouts that brought it to Jerry and he said "Ok, let's do it" or vice versa?

This deal reeked of other deals Jerry has done where it certainly appeared it was initiated and pulled off largely by Jerry with his staff having to go along for the ride because either Jerry wouldn't listen to those opposing the move or the people with the expertise to know didn't have the courage or ability to convince him it was a bad or too risky deal.

Having said that, I've tried to give Jerry credit for the things I think he's done well like hiring Jimmy, hiring Parcells, making drastic changes this off season (but from what I've read, this wasn't something he wanted to do) sticking with the current staff for the sake of continuity and his willingness to sign and pay players (although I think he needs to work on using the prestige of playing for the Cowboys to enable him to get better prices and Cowboy frendly contracts).

I'm still not convinced he's become a good talent evaluator, but I hope I'm wrong.

I will say I think he's done his best coaching job ever this year including his off season moves and changes.

This might not answer your question, but in the hours following the trade Jerry was on NFL Network last season. He referenced Jason Garrett and how Garrett had told him (in the offseason, perhaps) something to the extent that if you get me a guy like Roy Williams this offense would really be rolling.

 

[yimyammer]

This might not answer your question, but in the hours following the trade Jerry was on NFL Network last season. He referenced Jason Garrett and how Garrett had told him (in the offseason, perhaps) something to the extent that if you get me a guy like Roy Williams this offense would really be rolling.

If true, that doesn't bode well for Garretts talent evaluating skills given I heard the same thing about why we kept Brad Johnson last year.

Sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall in order to distinguish perception from reality

 

[Bach]

What gets me is that this is the SECOND time that Jerry got hosed on a WR trade...you would think he would have learned the first time

Most people would. But we're talking about Jerry here. That man's ego and idiocy knows no bounds.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This might not answer your question, but in the hours following the trade Jerry was on NFL Network last season. He referenced Jason Garrett and how Garrett had told him (in the offseason, perhaps) something to the extent that if you get me a guy like Roy Williams this offense would really be rolling.

I'm glad you said that, because I was going to post that Newy Scruggs has insisted that Garrett is the one who really convinced Jerry to pull the trigger on Roy last year because he said it would free up TO.

Now I know Jerry has liked Roy for years, but that's what Newy said. And I do think he has good sources within the team (maybe even Jerry himself).

 

[Hoofbite]

I know this is hard for some to believe, but Jerry isnt the sole person to "blame" if the RW trade dosnt work out. We have coaches and scouts who all looked at film on this guy, just like they look at film on every other player they think about acquiring.

Jerry may have pulled the trigger, but others helped load the gun.

Everytime something doesnt work out, you want to pin that solely on Jerry. When something does, it was either luck or to someone else's credit.

Meh, Jerry's the guy negotiating the trade.

He has the input from the scouts but he's the one dishing out the picks.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Where were you when the Roy Williams trade was made?

Almost everyone at this board and others were for the trade AT THE TIME. If memory serves me right, most in the media thought it was a good trade AT THE TIME.

Here you come, now. A year and a half later.

No one knew Miles was going to develop into the sensation he has. Even at the beginning of the year, many laughed at Miles suggesting that he is trying to become the number 1 WR for the Cowboys.

If you are so good at predicting, I'm sure you could make a lot of money. 31 other GMs would love to know who the booms and busts are.

I'll say it again for you. AT THE TIME, the Roy Williams trade made sense. It hasn't panned out that way. Get over it. It is no specific one's fault.

Jery Jones has put together a fine football team that just won the NFC East. Give him credit. Stop worrying about Roy.

 

[dbair1967]

I'm glad you said that, because I was going to post that Newy Scruggs has insisted that Garrett is the one who really convinced Jerry to pull the trigger on Roy last year because he said it would free up TO.

Now I know Jerry has liked Roy for years, but that's what Newy said. And I do think he has good sources within the team (maybe even Jerry himself).

So? He was theoretically right. RW was a a talent and had put up good numbers on a bad team. They ran a similar style passing attack, so it wasnt far fetched to think that a guy who was a #1 WR there and had put some good numbers (and been to a probowl) would vastly improve our passing game here.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

So? He was theoretically right. RW was a a talent and had put up good numbers on a bad team. They ran a similar style passing attack, so it wasnt far fetched to think that a guy who was a #1 WR there and had put some good numbers (and been to a probowl) would vastly improve our passing game here.

Just posting what he said because it surprised me and I'd never heard it before.

For the record, I like Roy and am surprised he hasn't shown more for us.

 

[speedkilz88]

You could be right to a point but Jerry has said HE makes all the final decisions. I will never buy Parcells was on board with signing owens, no matter how many times Jurha says he was.

So you think Jerry and Stephen both lied about asking Parcells multiple times "are you sure?"?

 

[dstew60105]

What gets me is that this is the SECOND time that Jerry got hosed on a WR trade...you would think he would have learned the first time

HOSED? Come on it was a low first and third. That trade only backfires it we take Michael Oher in the first. Let the trade play out. If Roy scores the winning TD against the Eagles will he still be a bum?

 

[Dave_in-NC]

So you think Jerry and Stephen both lied about asking Parcells multiple times "are you sure?"?

You really think that a coach trying to change the bad persona of the team would go along with bringing one of the worst personalities in the NFL?

All righty then.

 

[dbair1967]

You really think that a coach trying to change the bad persona of the team would go along with bringing one of the worst personalities in the NFL?

All righty then.

What was the bad persona then?

Also, Parcells has pretty much had malcontents or troubled guys everywhere he's been. Its nothing new.

He probably wasnt crazy about the idea, but I do believe Jerry and Stephen when they satte they asked Parcells several times if he was ok with the move. Parcells could have simply said "I quit" had he not wanted to coach Owens, and the deal would have been off in a snap.

 

[wileedog]

Just posting what he said because it surprised me and I'd never heard it before.

For the record, I like Roy and am surprised he hasn't shown more for us.

I didn't like the trade, but there was no way I thought he would be this bad.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

What was the bad persona then?

Also, Parcells has pretty much had malcontents or troubled guys everywhere he's been. Its nothing new.

He probably wasnt crazy about the idea, but I do believe Jerry and Stephen when they satte they asked Parcells several times if he was ok with the move. Parcells could have simply said "I quit" had he not wanted to coach Owens, and the deal would have been off in a snap.

I should have wrote mentality rather than persona. Sorry.

I don't think Jerry would have called off signing owens if god himself said to.
owens did one thing, sold tickets and kept Dallas in the press good or bad.
Jones was going to pull the trigger no matter who said so.

 

[hammer1]

At this point there is only one thing I hope we get from this trade and anything else would be gravy.

What I hope Jerry Jones learned is he doesn't have to make trades lke this in order to win and compete in this league. Only give up this much in draft picks and salary when you (AND ALL YOUR SCOUTS & COACHES) are 95% positive (barring injury) that you are getting a Hall of Fame type player that will perform for the duration of his contract and up to the level of his cost.

Make trades where the risk is LOW and the reward is HIGH and then be sure to discount your expectations and have a plan for the possibility that when a guy is full (gets paid), he just might lose his hunger (drive to work).

Learn from guys like Ratliff, Miles & Romo that someone in the building knows how to spot talent (sorry Jerry, I don't believe it's you) so trust them and do not reach for players like this because you think it will give you an instant Super Bowl.

Learn from the success of this off season that a team can be built out of 53 guys who might not have all the acclaim and best talent but together can perform more than well enough to allow you to compete and get a shot at where we all want to go.

The worst part about this trade is the hidden costs. Some of the hidden cost that come to mind are:

1. Agents and teams believe Jerry will over pay. As a result, he damages his negotiating power significantly with other players. What leverage does he have to justify paying Austin any less than Roy? Had Roy not been signed, I suspect Miles would have signed a much less risky, cowboy friendly deal at a lower cost. (Don't tkae this wrong, I believe Miles deserves a good contract, but I don't want any player to be able to cripple the team if he gets injured or doesn't perform up to expectations)

2. Existing players were on the team that could have easily equaled or exceeded his production at a fraction of the cost and we keep our draft picks (we could have had Michael Oher for example)

3. Other players did not get an opportunity to develop on the field because of the obligation to play a player simply because of his cost (Hurd, Ogletree)

Scout, develop, teach, churn, coach & build a team for the long haul.

You no longer have to think in terms of narrow windows of opportunity that cause you to make gambling trades like Roy's! You can compete year in and year out if you play as a team and allow you staff to do their job.

Now trust and empower them!!

No more wild-catting Jerry, this ain't the oil business!!

Like Bob Newhart says:

"Stop it!!"

[youtube]T1g3ENYxg9k[/youtube]

The RWII trade was a great one! Without it...we would still have Owens...and all his demons.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Hammer

 

[Eskimo]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Where were you when the Roy Williams trade was made?

Almost everyone at this board and others were for the trade AT THE TIME. If memory serves me right, most in the media thought it was a good trade AT THE TIME.

Here you come, now. A year and a half later.

No one knew Miles was going to develop into the sensation he has. Even at the beginning of the year, many laughed at Miles suggesting that he is trying to become the number 1 WR for the Cowboys.

If you are so good at predicting, I'm sure you could make a lot of money. 31 other GMs would love to know who the booms and busts are.

I'll say it again for you. AT THE TIME, the Roy Williams trade made sense. It hasn't panned out that way. Get over it. It is no specific one's fault.

Jery Jones has put together a fine football team that just won the NFC East. Give him credit. Stop worrying about Roy.

There were many here that didn't want the trade. I know MW and myself didn't like the deal at all. I'm pretty sure Roshi was against it, too. There were others but that was a long time ago. We were just outshouted by all the UT Roy sheeple that populate this board.