The only coordinators who will work for Parcells are young unknowns

wileedog

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SkinsandTerps said:
Not my double standard so much, just the way it will likely be perceived.
Same as people take away from great RBs because they have a great line. When the two are hand in hand usually.

Well, lets look at the perception.

For two years the offense under Gibbs has been stagnant. The defense under Williams has carried the team.

If Saunders the Savior comes in this year and fixes the offense and the Skins go and win, you don't think some people are going to point out the fact that for two years Gibbs' offense struggled but Saunders came and fixed it, and that's ultimately what got the team over the hump?

I'm not saying I believe that personally - just like I don't buy the Parcells needs Belichick schtick. But we're just talking perception here, right?
 

SkinsandTerps

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wileedog said:
Well, lets look at the perception.

For two years the offense under Gibbs has been stagnant. The defense under Williams has carried the team.

If Saunders the Savior comes in this year and fixes the offense and the Skins go and win, you don't think some people are going to point out the fact that for two years Gibbs' offense struggled but Saunders came and fixed it, and that's ultimately what got the team over the hump?

I'm not saying I believe that personally - just like I don't buy the Parcells needs Belichick schtick. But we're just talking perception here, right?

Well its fairly obvious to me (and you it seems) that the Commanders offense needs a little kick in the butt. And as you state some people may indeed look at it as Saunders was the missing link. Lets not forget that Al Saunders powerful offense never won a playoff game in KC however.

Joe Bugel was a terrible HC.
Ritchie Petitbon was a terrible HC.
Gregg Williams thus far terrible HC.
Al Saunders was a terrible HC.
The list could go on and on probably.

Is Gibbs the missing link ?

I think you and I are on the same page but reading different paragraphs.
 

sago1

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Don't understand why some excited Palmer not coming here and somehow all Parcells fault. Jets interviewed Palmer but we don't know they even offered him a job; Parcells interviewed him, but here again we don't know if Palmer's was offered a job. All we know is Parcells interviewing Palmer & Jones was going to meet with Palmer sometime on Wednesday but there no mention Wednesday evening Palmer had the job and all of a sudden on Thursday Palmer has OC job in NO. Sounds to me like both Jets & Cowboys were just interviewing and not locked into Palmer. Time will tell.

Do remember Zimmer saying after Rams interview that it went well, but in last day or 2 have read Rams not impressed with him. Maybe Jets/Cowboys felt same way about Palmer this time around.
 

Kittymama

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TruBlueCowboy said:
You can keep your head in the sand but something obviously ain't right.

We aren't pulling in the Greg Williams caliber coaches of the NFL.

Former coaches continue to not work with Parcells again.
And you know this how exactly? I'm also curious how you know it was Palmer who made the decision--as opposed to Parcells? It's entirely possible that Parcells is more interested in Heimerdinger, or that he does think Sparano might be a better fit at this point. And even if true, that's a bad thing why exactly? (And correct me if I'm wrong, but Pasqualoni is a "former coach," correct? And most of the other coaches did coach elsewhere before coming to the Cowboys? So wouldn't they all be "former coaches?")

Maybe it might be a good idea to wait until the season is over BEFORE we decide on the ACs that the skins hired & how superior they are to the Cowboys? I seem to recall everyone melting down over the years about all the "talent" the skins were signing as FAs--& that never amounted to anything. Yes, they were names, but they certainly didn't produce on the field. No question, Williams has done a good job, but he's had a pretty good group of players to work with. I'll be curious to see how effective Saunders is with either a broken-down QB or a rookie. It'll also be interesting to see how it plays out over the long run--Williams already being guaranteed that he will be the next coach, but meanwhile more coaches being brought in who also have strong ambitions to be HC.

I seem to recall that Parcells has had some "young unknown" talent before--guys noone ever heard of like Belichick, Coughlin, Crennel, Weis, etc.

Here's another thought--the skins are almost the only team bringing in the recycled coaches. When the Steelers (coached by the vaunted Cowher that so many think is better than Parcells now) lose an AC, they bring in young unknowns. So do a lot of other teams (Seahawks, Eagles, etc.). That's how you groom them & build a core for the long run. Yes, they get poached over time, but meanwhile you've got some solid talent in the mix. It's interesting that Parcells hasn't fired any of his coaches this season--& that the Boys refused to grant further permission for any of them to be interviewed. Sounds like he may now have a group he likes. Gee, think about that--the beginnings of another core group for the Boys to choose from down the line, perhaps?
 

hmcorp

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How did this whole thread get started?

People beg to play and coach with parcells. I would rather have those people than people that dont want to do coach or play under him.

This whole coach argument stuff is kind of contradictory and missing the point.


Parcells controls so many facets of the team. He is a control freak like Jimmy was.

He isnt like some of the other coaches that put it into other peoples hands.
 

dallasgirl12

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TruBlueCowboy said:
Someone posted a thread here not too long ago that reported rumors that coaches around Valley Ranch hate working for Parcells and to expect Payton and Zimmer gone in a heartbeat if they get another job somewhere. After watching the coach movement, I'm inclined to believe it.

Palmer shunned us for a rookie head coach. New Orleans has no quarterback, an aging #1 receiver, a tailback who can't stay healthy, the only thing they have on us is a better offensive line. Plus, it's the Saints, a team with no home, not exactly an enticing offer for an offensive coordinator compared to our team, which ain't second heaven, but you'd think we would have a chance with Palmer, especially considering the history with Parcells.

Payton won't go to the struggling Oakland Raiders because it's not in his interest to take over a team in that shape at the moment? But he'll gladly take over New Orleans, perhaps a team in the biggest state of turmoil in NFL history? :confused: Bologne, he just wanted to get out of Dodge as fast as possible. He was probably sick of Parcells.

Carthon left as fast as he could, and it really wasn't much of a promotion on the Browns either. We all know what Belichick thinks of Parcells. Parcells hasn't had near as much success recruiting former coaches as other returning head coaches have.

You can throw out any established veteran coach names to join our staff. Parcells does not have the personality of Joe Gibbs. The only people who will join Parcells are young coaches like Payton who maybe had some brief downturns in their career and are looking to improve their resume and hoping to have success under Parcells. And now that Parcells isn't winning as much as he used to, his staff openings are even more unattractive.

I think Parcells still has it, but all this coach movement makes me wonder if Parcells has worn out his welcome and the word is out to avoid him at all costs.


It amazes me how quick people are to read things into situations. I'm not sure what kind of work experience you have, but in the real world people aspire to advance their careers in their given profession. All of the coaches that have joined Parcells in the last few years, either worked for him before or knew enough of his reputation as a no-nonsense kinda of guy to want to hang their hat on him. All of them chose to be here, as it would help further their careers. We are looking at a record number of teams that are in need of head coaches. What better time to take a leap of faith and work toward the goal of a head coaching position. Football is no different than any business, in the sense that it is a business. If you look at Payton, he came here to be with Parcells. So did Carthon. Both owe a lot to Parcells in the opportunties that have come their way. Don't think for one minute, they don't know that. As for Zimmer, if he wanted out so bad, don't you think he would have jumped ship a year ago, verse working his butt off to learn and install a completely different defense? He did it, because the benefits of broadening his abilities, would one day pay off in the head-coaching arena. Zimmer is like any young coach who aspires to be a head coach in the National Football League, will look for opportunities as they arise. His time may not be this year, but he will get there one day...thanks in great part to his association with Parcells. If you are going to look negatively at every move made one or more of our coaches, at least do so honestly with other teams in the league as well. Not just over one season either...you have to go back several years. When you do, you will see it is what it is...a business where Coaches aspire to be more.
 

MaineBoy

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I think the realpoint of this thread was not about Payton leaving or Palmer not coming..I thought those were examples of the larger point that there are some experienced and capable assistant coaches being hired all over the league but HERE....You have Greg Williams and Al Saunders with the Skins....Dom Capers with Miami...Mularkey went to Miami also (I know he was fired in Buffalo but I have read that some football people think that there are bigger problems there)...Haslet was out there, etc....and we are left with the likes of Zimmer - who got one interview and blew that apparently - and Sparano and now talk that Sparano could be the new OC here.....Just seems like a lot of coaching talent is moving around and none of it is coming to us...
 

TruBlueCowboy

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MaineBoy said:
I think the realpoint of this thread was not about Payton leaving or Palmer not coming..I thought those were examples of the larger point that there are some experienced and capable assistant coaches being hired all over the league but HERE....You have Greg Williams and Al Saunders with the Skins....Dom Capers with Miami...Mularkey went to Miami also (I know he was fired in Buffalo but I have read that some football people think that there are bigger problems there)...Haslet was out there, etc....and we are left with the likes of Zimmer - who got one interview and blew that apparently - and Sparano and now talk that Sparano could be the new OC here.....Just seems like a lot of coaching talent is moving around and none of it is coming to us...

Yup. Apparently some folks think one man can coach this team to victory. Every member of that 90's dynasty credits Norv Turner as launching their offense and the dynasty. Bill Parcells (even though he won't admit it) can credit Belichick for those strong defenses that took him far. Mike Martz was the guy who gave Dick Vermeil his first Super Bowl and helped an unknown QB become the league MVP. Ya need good assistants. Parcells got 'em (Payton, Carthon) when he first joined the Cowboys but it's a little unnerving how he isn't pulling in young talent or any established assistant coaches anymore.
 

TruBlueCowboy

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dallasgirl12 said:
Zimmer is like any young coach who aspires to be a head coach in the National Football League, will look for opportunities as they arise.

Zimmer is not a young coach. He's close to 55. This may be as far as he goes in the NFL.
 

hmcorp

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Zimmer is exactly 50 years old this june.

Umm thats like 10-15 years of head coaching he could do.

And thats a ton.

The overreaction in this crowd. Amazing.

Bill doesnt need a redo of what happened with the oilers in the mid 90s with their HEAD COACHES at every position crap. I am perfectly happy with guys who are going to work extra hard to get thier names known. It is fine by me.
 

TruBlueCowboy

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hmcorp said:
Zimmer is exactly 50 years old this june.

Umm thats like 10-15 years of head coaching he could do.

And thats a ton.

The overreaction in this crowd. Amazing.

Bill doesnt need a redo of what happened with the oilers in the mid 90s with their HEAD COACHES at every position crap. I am perfectly happy with guys who are going to work extra hard to get thier names known. It is fine by me.

Where did you find that? I had a terrible time trying to find his age on the net and only landed on a link that had him at 53. I know he was coaching college football in the late 70's so he's almost got a good 30 years already.

Okay, found the link for 50 at Cowboy website. But still... going with today's NFL that's old. Guys in their 30's are getting head coaching jobs. You can be like the Buccs defensive coordinator and stay a DC your whole life but it seems like teams are going for guys around 40 now for their head coach.
 

Bob Sacamano

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sago1 said:
Don't understand why some excited Palmer not coming here and somehow all Parcells fault. Jets interviewed Palmer but we don't know they even offered him a job; Parcells interviewed him, but here again we don't know if Palmer's was offered a job. All we know is Parcells interviewing Palmer & Jones was going to meet with Palmer sometime on Wednesday but there no mention Wednesday evening Palmer had the job and all of a sudden on Thursday Palmer has OC job in NO. Sounds to me like both Jets & Cowboys were just interviewing and not locked into Palmer. Time will tell.

Do remember Zimmer saying after Rams interview that it went well, but in last day or 2 have read Rams not impressed with him. Maybe Jets/Cowboys felt same way about Palmer this time around.

everyone's forgetting that it has been said that Bill has a few options in mind

and guess what, Palmer's just 1 option
 

Bob Sacamano

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dallasgirl12 said:
It amazes me how quick people are to read things into situations. I'm not sure what kind of work experience you have, but in the real world people aspire to advance their careers in their given profession. All of the coaches that have joined Parcells in the last few years, either worked for him before or knew enough of his reputation as a no-nonsense kinda of guy to want to hang their hat on him. All of them chose to be here, as it would help further their careers. We are looking at a record number of teams that are in need of head coaches. What better time to take a leap of faith and work toward the goal of a head coaching position. Football is no different than any business, in the sense that it is a business. If you look at Payton, he came here to be with Parcells. So did Carthon. Both owe a lot to Parcells in the opportunties that have come their way. Don't think for one minute, they don't know that. As for Zimmer, if he wanted out so bad, don't you think he would have jumped ship a year ago, verse working his butt off to learn and install a completely different defense? He did it, because the benefits of broadening his abilities, would one day pay off in the head-coaching arena. Zimmer is like any young coach who aspires to be a head coach in the National Football League, will look for opportunities as they arise. His time may not be this year, but he will get there one day...thanks in great part to his association with Parcells. If you are going to look negatively at every move made one or more of our coaches, at least do so honestly with other teams in the league as well. Not just over one season either...you have to go back several years. When you do, you will see it is what it is...a business where Coaches aspire to be more.

:hammer:
 

TruBlueCowboy

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summerisfunner said:
now you're nitpicking the age?

Not nitpicking. It's 50 year young, remember? :)

Just saying, she made it sound like he was a young coaching prospect. Nope, that was Payton. Zimmer is starting to fade into one of those career coordinators if ya know what I mean. Especially if those rumors on his interviews for NFL head coaching gigs are true. Hey, nothing wrong with that if you can have the success of a Monte Kiffin or Jim Johnson, some guys just weren't cut out for head coaching jobs.
 

BigDFan5

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TruBlueCowboy said:
Zimmer is not a young coach. He's close to 55. This may be as far as he goes in the NFL.


ummm Zimmer is 49 still very young in NFL coaching standards
 

AbeBeta

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BigDFan5 said:
ummm Zimmer is 49 still very young in NFL coaching standards

very young considering some of the other folks out there. hell, after the Bills get around to firing Jauron (likely week 9), Marv Levy will be coaching at 80 years old.
 

Bob Sacamano

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TruBlueCowboy said:
Not nitpicking. It's 50 year young, remember? :)

Just saying, she made it sound like he was a young coaching prospect. Nope, that was Payton. Zimmer is starting to fade into one of those career coordinators if ya know what I mean. Especially if those rumors on his interviews for NFL head coaching gigs are true. Hey, nothing wrong with that if you can have the success of a Monte Kiffin or Jim Johnson, some guys just weren't cut out for head coaching jobs.

actually, how long Zimmer's been coaching in the NFL, he's considered a young coordinator, and I dont' see what him bombing interviews for HC jobs has to do with anything pertaining to this discussion

and what about guys such as TOdd Haley?
 
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