The Outlier QB vs A 1st Round QB Working Out

[MikeT22]

Most elite QBs historically have been drafted in the first round, just like a majority of elite players at EVERY position. But it’s also true the overwhelming majority of first round QBs are busts.

Conceding being horrible for a few years on the hope that you find one of the ones that isn’t a bust is a tough sell to a fanbase. And some franchises that try this end up stuck there for literally decades.

Not drafting a QB high can also lead a franchise to be stuck for decades.

Source: Dallas Cowboys

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I watched Cooper Rush go 5-1.

I think saying Lance failing is likely is kind of jumping the gun a bit.

you watched cooper rush go 5-1 with a defense that gave up 13.5 points a game on average and score as well. the very first time the defense gave up more than 20. we lost.

give me that type of defense and we can win a superbowl with Trent Dilfer. wait. Dilfer did win a superbowl with that type of defense.

Rush is a sinking ship. if you are smart, you wouldn't hang your hat on him.

based on evidence to date. lance is nothing special. he has one year to prove otherwise.

 

[Blitzen]

to start with it does not take three to four years to rebuild if you have an excellent GM. THAT has been proven

It depends. The GM for the Texans (Nick Caserio) did not do a 1 year rebuild. He did a 3 year rebuild. CJ Stroud benefited from Nick’s good vision starting in 2021. They actually had a decent squad in 2022 despite losing so many games (their games were tightly contested for the most part-see the Dallas game-very close late in the game). He did not trade Laremy Tunsil-he extended him to the largest contract for a LT. They were deliberate and patient. It finally paid dividends this season.

Most squads don’t do a complete rebuild in one year when the GM is in their very first year.

 

[Nav22]

Or we could do your suggestion and trade Micah and draft Drake Maye to replace Dak.

You fake Dak fan you.

Have you learned what "masochistic" means yet?

Nothing funnier than when a simpleton tries to sound intelligent.

 

[StarOfGlory]

I think teams are more than capable of winning it all with the 'outlier' qbs. Foles, Purdy, Hurts, Jimmy G all have gotten to the dance in recent history. The bigger issue to me is paying the outlier QBs. Rookie QB deals area beautiful thing for NFL teams. If you're going to pay a QB record money they better be an elite QB or you better have a top front office in the league who can fill out a roster while navigating the 50-60M per year you're paying the quarterback.

What actually counts as an outlier QB? Hurts and Jimmy G were 2nd round picks, Foles a 3rd. Is every QB not picked in the 1st round an outlier?

 

[StarOfGlory]

Patrick Mahomes didnt have to score 30 points to win any of the 21 games that Kansas City played this year, sounds like he had plenty of help from his defense.

Give Dak the same, "You dont have to score 30 points to win any of the games including the super bowl" and we likely wouldve gone pretty far.

Mahomes looked like an average qb in the first half of the super bowl, threw a bad interception. Kansas City defense kept them in the game until Andy Reid figured something out. Dak has none of that luxury.

You bring up an interesting point. It’s nice to have a coach like Andy Reid to figure things out. Maybe Dak needs a coach like Reid. Not sure if Reid would want Dak though.

 

[Creeper]

I understand you. I’m done with Dak because I’m certain the Cowboys have gone as far with Dak as they can go. I believe the chances of the team winning a Super Bowl to be zero with Dak as the starting QB (and right next to zero to reach a CCG)- no matter who they add to the roster or which coaches are brought in (also no matter if they keep him 5 or 10 years). Whatever the extension ends up being -you can add 3-4 years to that and that will be the soonest realistic chance at better playoff success.

I do not believe the chances of finding a QB that would be capable of winning a Super Bowl to be very good. I just believe any extension of Dak is an extension of the inevitable rebuild. No reason to delay it when the team with Dak is already a known quantity in the playoffs.

I don't have an issue with people who think like you do. In fact, I have an emotional affinity for this thinking. I also believe the decision depends on what Dak wants when he negotiates his extension. As I have said many times, if he wants $60 million of more, I would bite the bullet now. In fact, I would struggle to agree to $55 million. If I was to be honest with Dak I would tell him he got $40 million that he never earned and I don't think he is worth $50 million, I don't care what other QBs are getting. I'd ask Dak to bet on himself. Take a $45 million deal with incentives, Like big bonuses that he could achieve with the success of the team. But for this to be fair, Jerry would have to be honest about going all in to build a better defense.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

you watched cooper rush go 5-1 with a defense that gave up 13.5 points a game on average and score as well. the very first time the defense gave up more than 20. we lost.

give me that type of defense and we can win a superbowl with Trent Dilfer. wait. Dilfer did win a superbowl with that type of defense.

Rush is a sinking ship. if you are smart, you wouldn't hang your hat on him.

based on evidence to date. lance is nothing special. he has one year to prove otherwise.

What evidence do you have about Lance?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

What evidence do you have about Lance?

57% completion rate one year, 48% another. not impressive stats at all. 3 interceptions in 8 games and 102 attempts. QBR about 33!!!!
he is the 3rd pick of the draft. I am sure people will have excuses for him. "he is learning". "he was injured". blah blah. so far nothing he has done shows he is elite. he looks like a bust more than even an average QB. furthermore, the team that drafted him 3rd overall, gave up a bunch to go get him, dumped him for a 4th and could have been lower if Jerry wouldn't jump in. he was 3rd string (not injured) on his team behind another bust QB that got the backup QB position.
not looking good for him. he has a lot to prove.

does this mean he can't or won't? no. its just that he has a lot to prove and improve.

 

[Philmonroe]

you watched cooper rush go 5-1 with a defense that gave up 13.5 points a game on average and score as well. the very first time the defense gave up more than 20. we lost.

give me that type of defense and we can win a superbowl with Trent Dilfer. wait. Dilfer did win a superbowl with that type of defense.

Rush is a sinking ship. if you are smart, you wouldn't hang your hat on him.

based on evidence to date. lance is nothing special. he has one year to prove otherwise.

It don’t matter how it happens because other folks don’t have those excuses tied to their wins and losses. You dod types are wild

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

What evidence do you have about Lance?

4 starts from Lance and he’s labeled a failure yet they’ve watched Dak fail for a decade and can’t bring themselves to admit he’s not the guy.

 

[phildadon86]

Sad you think that, man.

Losers like Romo and Dak have broken you.

Its the truth my dude. This team is broken and it starts at the top. You could bring BB into the equation here and the toxic culture would penetrate still. As long as Jerry forces his way into everything football instead of signing cheques the problem remains.

Not to mention. The guys drafting the QB you want in round 1 tried trading up for Paxton Lynch. So thats the brain trust drafting the first round QB on this team.

Like I said. The problem is above the field.

 

[phildadon86]

4 starts from Lance and he’s labeled a failure yet they’ve watched Dak fail for a decade and can’t bring themselves to admit he’s not the guy.

Nice lol

 

[thunderpimp91]

Its the truth my dude. This team is broken and it starts at the top. You could bring BB into the equation here and the toxic culture would penetrate still. As long as Jerry forces his way into everything football instead of signing cheques the problem remains.

Not to mention. The guys drafting the QB you want in round 1 tried trading up for Paxton Lynch. So thats the brain trust drafting the first round QB on this team.

Like I said. The problem is above the field.

I've never understood why this is still a knock on Dallas. No other team in the league gets crapped on for not taking busts in the draft. We don't say Andy Reid can't evaluate the QB position, but it's said that they were trying to trade up for Lynch too. We really don't even knock Denver who actually did trade up for the guy and outbid Jerry. Yet we continue to use Lynch and Johnny Football as reasons to be critical of Jerry yet the Cowboys didn't take either one???

Not saying Jerry isn't a buffoon in many ways, but some of these recycled arguments are pretty weak.

 

[phildadon86]

I've never understood why this is still a knock on Dallas. No other team in the league gets crapped on for not taking busts in the draft. We don't say Andy Reid can't evaluate the QB position, but it's said that they were trying to trade up for Lynch too. We really don't even knock Denver who actually did trade up for the guy and outbid Jerry. Yet we continue to use Lynch and Johnny Football as reasons to be critical of Jerry yet the Cowboys didn't take either one???

Not saying Jerry isn't a buffoon in many ways, but some of these recycled arguments are pretty weak.

Should I go down the list of failed second rounders?

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I've never understood why this is still a knock on Dallas. No other team in the league gets crapped on for not taking busts in the draft. We don't say Andy Reid can't evaluate the QB position, but it's said that they were trying to trade up for Lynch too. We really don't even knock Denver who actually did trade up for the guy and outbid Jerry. Yet we continue to use Lynch and Johnny Football as reasons to be critical of Jerry yet the Cowboys didn't take either one???

Not saying Jerry isn't a buffoon in many ways, but some of these recycled arguments are pretty weak.

They, like Jerry, are scared of drafting a QB and it not working out.

They're comfortable in mediocrity because mediocrity isn’t rock bottom.

They hate Jerry for not taking risks, but at the same time are scared of it themselves.

They're more terrified the QB we draft turns out as Lynch instead of excited that it could turn out to be Stroud.

So let’s draft a center in the 1st round instead. Thats safe.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Should I go down the list of failed second rounders?

Go for it. It's certainly a better argument than Jerry didn't trade up for Paxton Lynch, but thought about it.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It don’t matter how it happens because other folks don’t have those excuses tied to their wins and losses. You dod types are wild

huh? I stated facts. because apparently facts don't matter to folks. if anybody thinks Rush is the answser at QB, needs to have their head examined. or perhaps they are looking for us to tank and draft top 5. in that case I am not opposed.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

huh? I stated facts. because apparently facts don't matter to folks. if anybody thinks Rush is the answser at QB, needs to have their head examined. or perhaps they are looking for us to tank and draft top 5. in that case I am not opposed.

A 5-1 pace = 15-2 or 14-3 season.

That wouldn’t lead to a very high draft pick.

 

[Philmonroe]

huh? I stated facts. because apparently facts don't matter to folks. if anybody thinks Rush is the answser at QB, needs to have their head examined. or perhaps they are looking for us to tank and draft top 5. in that case I am not opposed.

Yeah I agree facts don’t matter hence why I said what I said. Nobody said Rush is the answer at qb. I’m pretty sure you can’t find those post or maybe you can find an outlier post but that’s not close to the norm. Just goes to show that you can win without a certain player that’s all.