The Outlier QB vs A 1st Round QB Working Out

[Blackrain]

It all depends on Jerry does he want to stay relevant making the playoffs every year with a quick exit.
I believe we have a big enough sample size now to show us that neither Dak our leader on offense and Micah are leader on defense are not able to get us further in the playoffs without help Dak needs a running game and offensive line help and Micah needs some dominant defensive lineman to take some of the heat off him and let him do his best work in the playoffs.

As a result we can't pay either one of them like they are playoff game changers because they are not they are tremendous regular season players making the absolute most of their opportunities against bad teams.

Jerry could shoot the works take a chance go all in and rebuild the whole team with young players on rookie contracts and give us a huge window of opportunity to win a super bowl.
But he just doesn't seem like that wildcating type of guy anymore.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

We already have a first rounder on the roster in Trey Lance what's your feeling on offering Dak 30 mil
Which is about what I feel we can pay him and get all the free agent help he needs to get further in the playoffs.

If he refuses to take it we trade him and Micah and rebuild both lines along with the running back and linebacker positions with young players on their rookie contracts and see if McCarthy is the coach he's supposed to be and can coach up Trey Lance.

If McCarthy fails and we tank then we use our first round pick the following year to draft a quarterback at which point he will have a seasoned offensive line and a running game in front of him so he can do his best along with what should be a top-notch defense.

This plan ensures a nucleus of young players all on their rookie contracts providing the longest window of opportunity to win a super bowl in my opinion.

I don’t think they should offer Dak anything.

He’s a loser.

If I had it my way I’d go into next season with Lance. If he fails he fails, but you’re never gonna know if you don’t put him out there.

If Lance looks horrible then we’ll end with a bad record and in prime position to draft a QB.

Either way I’m taking my chances, which are astronomically higher, on finding a REAL elite QB over Dak making NFL history.

 

[MyFairLady]

I think we know everything we need to know about Dak at this point. We can argue back and forth all day about stats and talent it does not matter. What we do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Dak is not the leader that a football team needs. Dak is not going to tell Zeke to stop getting in trouble. Dak is not going to study film all hours of the night. Dak is not going to demand that his teammates study film as long as it takes. Dak is not going to find out about Sam Williams party plans and put a stop to it. Dak is not going to tell Parsons to stop crying about the refs and get the job done. Dak is not going to tell Zack Martin to get his fat *** out to LT and block. Dak is not going to tell Diggs to man up and make the tackle.

IMHO those things are so much more important than anything else at this point. Without them nothing else really matters much.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I think we know everything we need to know about Dak at this point. We can argue back and forth all day about stats and talent it does not matter. What we do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Dak is not the leader that a football team needs. Dak is not going to tell Zeke to stop getting in trouble. Dak is not going to study film all hours of the night. Dak is not going to demand that his teammates study film as long as it takes. Dak is not going to find out about Sam Williams party plans and put a stop to it. Dak is not going to tell Parsons to stop crying about the refs and get the job done. Dak is not going to tell Zack Martin to get his fat *** out to LT and block. Dak is not going to tell Diggs to man up and make the tackle.

IMHO those things are so much more important than anything else at this point. Without them nothing else really matters much.

And none of these things are coming a decade into his career.

The locker room right now is the worst it’s ever been and Dak has not shown his face or said a single word since getting dog walked by Green Bay while his teammates continue to act foolish day in and day out.

Oh, but he’ll pop that head out when Jerry offers him money. Thats for sure.

 

[Blackrain]

If Dak refuses to accept A team friendly deal that will allow us to put the help he needs around him

Would anybody be up for trading him to the Titans for Derrick Henry and their first round pick.

I'm kind of on the fence I think I need a first and a third along with Henry.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

If Dak refuses to accept A team friendly deal that will allow us to put the help he needs around him

Would anybody be up for trading him to the Titans for Derrick Henry and their first round pick.

I'm kind of on the fence I think I need a first and a third along with Henry.

Isn't Henry a free agent?

 

[Blackrain]

I don’t think they should offer Dak anything.

He’s a loser.

If I had it my way I’d go into next season with Lance. If he fails he fails, but you’re never gonna know if you don’t put him out there.

If Lance looks horrible then we’ll end with a bad record and in prime position to draft a QB.

Either way I’m taking my chances, which are astronomically higher, on finding a REAL elite QB over Dak making NFL history.

Yep I described exactly that in an earlier post .
But I don't feel like Dak is a loser anymore than I feel like Micah is a loser.
I think they both Excel in The perfect Storm but struggle when teams are good and need more help.
I also feel like they are extremely tradable items that we could rebuild the whole team with.

It seems like it's all about catching the window of opportunity with a young group of talented players that aren't breaking the Bank.

 

[Blackrain]

Isn't Henry a free agent?

I'm not sure he might be now I'll have to check that

 

[Blitzen]

Most elite QBs historically have been drafted in the first round, just like a majority of elite players at EVERY position. But it’s also true the overwhelming majority of first round QBs are busts.

Conceding being horrible for a few years on the hope that you find one of the ones that isn’t a bust is a tough sell to a fanbase. And some franchises that try this end up stuck there for literally decades.

I don’t believe it’s that simple. Most of the teams that drafted the QB’s in the first round were reaching for a QB out of necessity and forcing the player to play before they had developed. QB’s are forced into action and drafted early because coaching staffs and GM’s (of other teams) must succeed within 3 years or get fired.

Then the entire front office, coaching staff, QB, and ancillary players get fired or traded-process gets repeated. Most clubs give these scenarios no chance or a sliver of it. The thought becomes-well this QB over here succeeded right away so that means the other QB is a bust. Most teams that are put into a bad situation fail because the whole team is terrible and given next to zero time to actually develop a winning roster.

 

[Sydla]

Mountaineer is really struggling with the notion that Dak is coming back.

It's making him mentally unstable.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Mountaineer is really struggling with the notion that Dak is coming back.

It's making him mentally unstable.

You’ve accepted and welcomed losing.

I refuse welcome or accept it.

We’re not the same.

 

[kskboys]

Most elite QBs historically have been drafted in the first round, just like a majority of elite players at EVERY position. But it’s also true the overwhelming majority of first round QBs are busts.

Conceding being horrible for a few years on the hope that you find one of the ones that isn’t a bust is a tough sell to a fanbase. And some franchises that try this end up stuck there for literally decades.

If you take out the QB's in the 1st who were overdrafted, the bust percentage drops drastically.

 

[kskboys]

We already have a first rounder on the roster in Trey Lance what's your feeling on offering Dak 30 mil
Which is about what I feel we can pay him and get all the free agent help he needs to get further in the playoffs.

If he refuses to take it we trade him and Micah and rebuild both lines along with the running back and linebacker positions with young players on their rookie contracts and see if McCarthy is the coach he's supposed to be and can coach up Trey Lance.

If McCarthy fails and we tank then we use our first round pick the following year to draft a quarterback at which point he will have a seasoned offensive line and a running game in front of him so he can do his best along with what should be a top-notch defense.

This plan ensures a nucleus of young players all on their rookie contracts providing the longest window of opportunity to win a super bowl in my opinion.

Trey has already busted.

 

[1942willys]

If you take out the QB's in the 1st who were overdrafted, the bust percentage drops drastically.

very true; most QB busts are very over drafted and its obvious; but you keep getting stupid GMs that fall in love with a arm, measurements, etc. Or in some cases ignore size because you like the guy

 

[1942willys]

All of that help and rebuilding takes years (likely 3-4) to do and by that time-you might need replacements in other areas. I do not suggest that the Cowboys are perfect, or that they gave Dak the perfect squad to compete with. I believe the front office gave Dak everything that they could think of doing that made financial and football capital sense to them. It was not and is not enough.

At this point, the contract you are speaking of needing Dak to take is not feasible with the agent that he has, and how much he counts towards this year’s cap. If they want to lessen his cap hit, Dak’s agent will demand the highest guaranteed money for an NFL QB in history (except for Deshaun Watson). He will get it because Jones has shown he does not care at all about playoff success, but he does care about making the playoffs routinely.

The fans will get more similar seasons from Dak. Beat pretty much every single tier 3 team, win about half the games against tier 2 teams, lose basically every single game against tier 1 teams. Lose early in the playoffs-rinse, lather, repeat.

to start with it does not take three to four years to rebuild if you have an excellent GM. THAT has been proven

 

[Blackrain]

I'm not sure he might be now I'll have to check that

Yes he will be a free agent in March he would be a great veteran to pick up and draft a young back to pair with him I think that along with a center and another lineman would go a long way to fix our running game

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

to start with it does not take three to four years to rebuild if you have an excellent GM. THAT has been proven

It doesn’t even take that.

Wasn’t the Texans supposed to be rebuilding for the next few years? CJ Stroud came in and they’re instantly good enough to win a playoff game.

You take the most important position seriously and it can change everything.

 

[Captain-Crash]

I don’t think they should offer Dak anything.

He’s a loser.

If I had it my way I’d go into next season with Lance. If he fails he fails, but you’re never gonna know if you don’t put him out there.

If Lance looks horrible then we’ll end with a bad record and in prime position to draft a QB.

Either way I’m taking my chances, which are astronomically higher, on finding a REAL elite QB over Dak making NFL history.

that's scary, what would I do without my dak? would I have to go follow another team? *tears*

 

[Captain-Crash]

most teams that get a QB's in the first are bad teams.

 

[Sydla]

You’ve accepted and welcomed losing.

I refuse welcome or accept it.

We’re not the same.

I've accepted it because it's not changing. Despite me saying for months that if this team spits the bit in the playoffs again they should blow the entire thing up - Dak, McCarthy, Quinn, etc. - I've come to grips with the reality Jerry is running this back for at least one more year.

I'll criticize Dak when warranted as the season unfolds but at this point, he's our QB and no matter how much I think that's a bad idea, that's just reality.