The Phantom Salary Cap Menace

[waldoputty]

Exactly as I expected. Are a goals vlaim about something another person said and then try to deflect it back on them someone when you fail to support it.

My point is that you don't plan a franchise around two players. And that's been made clear numerous times.

Do you not even know how to quote someone properly?

"Facts" have nothing to do with your math, nor with your planned cap suicide. I've said it before and I'll repeat it until you understand it. Just because the Cowboys can destroy their cap and future, doesn't mean they should.

So I guess that is the most graceful way you can admit the math is correct.
You dont plan a franchise about the NFL rushing leader and perhaps the most dominant player in the NFL other than Brady?
Oh forgot to mention this also is based on Dak's rookie cheap contract as well as Romo's salary freeing up.
Is that enough for you?
So what is your qualifications that makes you more qualified than others to evaluate those could-be-available FAs?
Anything whatsoever?
I dont think so?
And it is not cap suicide, it would only be cap suicide if we draft badly from 2017-2019.
If we continue to draft well, the cap may not even blow up.
And if the cap blows up, it would only be 1 year.
So it is borrowing from 1 year to boost the other years.
If only superbowls matter, what I am suggesting is perfectly rational.
Also you are not going to badger me into doing anything more than writing messages.
Especially for someone who just seems to say I know better and offer no specifics whatsoever.

 

[Nightman]

We have less cap room than most of the other teams; therefore, we are, relatively speaking in a less than ideal cap situation.

Why do you equate more cap room with an ideal situation?...... The idea is to spend up to and over the line every year in an attempt to improve your team.............there are no prizes for being 60m under the cap

 

[Verdict]

So I guess that is the most graceful way you can admit the math is correct.
You dont plan a franchise about the NFL rushing leader and perhaps the most dominant player in the NFL other than Brady?
Oh forgot to mention this also is based on Dak's rookie cheap contract as well as Romo's salary freeing up.
Is that enough for you?
So what is your qualifications that makes you more qualified than others to evaluate those could-be-available FAs?
Anything whatsoever?
I dont think so?
And it is not cap suicide, it would only be cap suicide if we draft badly from 2017-2019.
If we continue to draft well, the cap may not even blow up.
And if the cap blows up, it would only be 1 year.
So it is borrowing from 1 year to boost the other years.
If only superbowls matter, what I am suggesting is perfectly rational.
Also you are not going to badger me into doing anything more than writing messages.
Especially for someone who just seems to say I know better and offer no specifics whatsoever.

I agree with some of your other conclusions, but this isn't some of your better stuff.

 

[Stash]

So I guess that is the most graceful way you can admit the math is correct.
You dont plan a franchise about the NFL rushing leader and perhaps the most dominant player in the NFL other than Brady?
Oh forgot to mention this also is based on Dak's rookie cheap contract as well as Romo's salary freeing up.
Is that enough for you?
So what is your qualifications that makes you more qualified than others to evaluate those could-be-available FAs?
Anything whatsoever?

Knowing more about them than a google search for "top NFL free agents" for one thing. That puts me squarely ahead of you.

I dont think so?
And it is not cap suicide, it would only be cap suicide if we draft badly from 2017-2019.
If we continue to draft well, the cap may not even blow up.
And if the cap blows up, it would only be 1 year.
So it is borrowing from 1 year to boost the other years.
If only superbowls matter, what I am suggesting is perfectly rational.
Also you are not going to badger me into doing anything more than writing messages.
Especially for someone who just seems to say I know better and offer no specifics whatsoever.

I don't need to "badger" you into anything, nor am I trying to. I'm simply telling you that this is an awful "plan", in no uncertain terms. And you can waste as much time with it as you'd like. Nobody agrees with it, and the Cowboys will do the exact opposite of anything you've suggested.

But if you feel compelled to bang the drum and waste your time further, have at it.

 

[waldoputty]

I agree with some of your other conclusions, but this isn't some of your better stuff.

well, what do you disagree with:
1. the math is wrong?
2. dont like the concept of purposefully tanking 1 season every 4-6 seasons?
3. stacking the deck too much (no competition)?
4. dont think the players are worth it?
5. something else?

 

[waldoputty]

Knowing more about them than a google search for "top NFL free agents" for one thing. That puts me squarely ahead of you.

I don't need to "badger" you into anything, nor am I trying to. I'm simply telling you that this is an awful "plan", in no uncertain terms. And you can waste as much time with it as you'd like. Nobody agrees with it, and the Cowboys will do the exact opposite of anything you've suggested.

But if you feel compelled to bang the drum and waste your time further, have at it.

you keep saying it is an awful plan.
the only support you have is you know better.
i actually have quite an open mind, but you have not said anything to convince me of anything.
you can say nobody agrees with it, but a few post above bkight13 seems to be ok with it.
he also thinks the math is correct.

i dont go telling people i know more about football than they do.
you have not told me anything why you know more than i do - beyond you are wrong... and i know more...

 

[Stash]

you keep saying it is an awful plan.
the only support you have is you know better.
i actually have quite an open mind, but you have not said anything to convince me of anything.
you can say nobody agrees with it,

Your mind is shut like a vise, but, fine, you're free to believe whatever you want to. Continue to waste your time on a 'plan' that nobody likes and no team is going to follow.

but a few post above bkight13 seems to be ok with it.
he also thinks the math is correct.

Great, that 'endorsement' only further reinforces the fact that it's cap suicide. His schemes make this nonsense look tame by comparison. But you two have fun fantasy destroying the Cowboys cap!

i dont go telling people i know more about football than they do.
you have not told me anything why you know more than i do - beyond you are wrong... and i know more...

I knew who Olivier Vernon was before last season. I know more about football than you do. We're done here.

 

[waldoputty]

Your mind is shut like a vise, but, fine, you're free to believe whatever you want to. Continue to waste your time on a 'plan' that nobody likes and no team is going to follow.

Great, that 'endorsement' only further reinforces the fact that it's cap suicide. His schemes make this nonsense look tame by comparison. But you two have fun fantasy destroying the Cowboys cap!

I knew who Olivier Vernon was before last season. I know more about football than you do. We're done here.

actually my mind has been changed many times by those who provided appropriate statistics and other quantitative information.
except you have provided none in this case.
e.g. #1, i have made corrections based on bk's input.
e.g. #2, i have also changed my ideas on jaylon based on facts provided by fuzzy.
but they provided hard facts.
i dont recall you providing a single fact in this argument.

to help you make your argument, bk has said my proposed idea is extremely aggressive.
not the other way around as you have stated.

i get my info from watching exclusively cowboys games and also from reading the rags.
you knew who vernon was and the rags that i read stated vernon was best available.
how are you any better than the rags i read?
now if you state that you worked for a team or something like that, that would get my attention.
otherwise it is just i am right because i know better. such an argument does not work with me.

if the cowboys' cap is destroyed what for one year - so what.
companies have designed restructuring all the time - so big deal...
the current president had numerous restructuring (chapter 11 i believe) and he is still a billionaire.

it is not as if we are going to win the superbowl every year any way?
all i am proposing is to borrow from one year and spread it into 3-4 years to maximize the chance to win those 3-4 years, that happen to coincide with the remaining primes of dez and elliott.

 

[Hoofbite]

you are going with conventional wisdom, but the world has changed.
the salary cap world has changed particularly for us due to 1) annual rises of $10M/year for next 4 years and 2) Romo salary cap being gone.
one of the salary cap experts on the board agrees with my financial analysis.

it is not for all teams.
it is optimal for us because the timeframe matches dez's remaining prime and the expected dominant lifetime of a running back - 4 to 5 years.
we used up 1 of elliott's dominant years already.

giants fixed their defense by spending $200M last year.
that is what we need plus a RT and sign a respectable WR2

The only thing that has changed is the fact that there is a disproportionate amount of cap space in the NFL relative to the talent pool. Doesn't really matter if the cap rises substantially every year if the talent pool doesn't keep up.

Who agrees with you on this board is largely irrelevant. The NFL doesn't.

 

[waldoputty]

The only thing that has changed is the fact that there is a disproportionate amount of cap space in the NFL relative to the talent pool. Doesn't really matter if the cap rises substantially every year if the talent pool doesn't keep up.

Who agrees with you on this board is largely irrelevant. The NFL doesn't.

this is #150 post in the thread.
so i will explain why i created this thread.
of course i dont think the cowboys would do this, though i think it would not be a bad thing.

i took the most extreme scenario i could muster up and tested it with some help from bkight13
to my surprise, it kind of worked math-wise.
the cap does explode in a few years but that is when dez and zeke could well be done.
so i posted about it because i saw many had an irrational cap focus.
i knew many would fight it as if i was going to steal their ira.

 

[Nightman]

this is #150 post in the thread.
so i will explain why i created this thread.
of course i dont think the cowboys would do this, though i think it would not be a bad thing.

i took the most extreme scenario i could muster up and tested it with some help from bkight13
to my surprise, it kind of worked math-wise.
the cap does explode in a few years but that is when dez and zeke could well be done.
so i posted about it because i saw many had an irrational cap focus.
i knew many would fight it as if i was going to steal their ira.

I do get excited thinking of adding Chandler Jones, Eric Berry, Bouye/Mo, Jaylon Smith and a healthy DLawrence and CTapper plus a Draft1, draft2 and draft4 to our D

 

[waldoputty]

I do get excited thinking of adding Chandler Jones, Eric Berry, Bouye/Mo, Jaylon Smith and a healthy DLawrence and CTapper plus a Draft1, draft2 and draft4 to our D

me too
funny thing is we could maintain the cap for more than 3 years.
i suspect as least to 2021 depending on who we cut and how we cut them etc.

i doubt dlaw will be really healthy again though
and tapper is going to be a big question mark.

yes, many fought me like i was going to steal their IRA (or lunch money ...)

 

[Hoofbite]

Being under the cap isn't challenging. Vast majority of teams don't even restructure to make it happen in any given year, and no other team restructures to make it happen every year.

Just to put things in perspective, in terms of free cap space the team went from #32 to #30. If they had freed up 3x the space (roughly $42M), they'd still only climb halfway up the rankings. They haven't even fully covered the cap space that is currently applied to the 2017 cap as a result of all the restructuring they have done since 2013. It really shouldn't even be newsworthy at this point.

Update: Looks like the Jets may have freed up a little space. Dallas back down to 31st in available cap space, $3M behind the Jets.

League average of $42M in cap space. Bottom 8 teams have $26M or less. Without them the league average is over $50M in cap space. Dallas has $6M.

 

[Nightman]

Update: Looks like the Jets may have freed up a little space. Dallas back down to 31st in available cap space, $3M behind the Jets.

League average of $42M in cap space. Bottom 8 teams have $26M or less. Without them the league average is over $50M in cap space. Dallas has $6M.

right now.......you are too smart for these silly posts

50m in space is there whether we activate it or not........ that is all that matters

 

[waldoputty]

right now.......you are too smart for these silly posts

50m in space is there whether we activate it or not........ that is all that matters

There is no prize for having the most cap space.
Unless you are Belicheat who wants to show off...

 

[Hoofbite]

right now.......you are too smart for these silly posts

50m in space is there whether we activate it or not........ that is all that matters

Same for every other team, but nobody is going to do it.

 

[waldoputty]

Same for every other team, but nobody is going to do it.

it does not benefit all teams like it would benefit the Cowboys.
first, no other top 10 team has an outrageous weakness like the Cowboys defense.
second, to benefit, to have a chance for the superbowl, it needs to be at least a top-10 team with at least a top 10 QB in place (since QB probably not available)
there are 4 other teams that this buy-the-superbowl strategy would benefit: Atlanta, Raider, Green Bay and Steelers.
i would guess it is too counter-culture for Steelers and Green Bay.
Patriots already have $60M cap space.
Chiefs, Cardinals, Texans and Bronco do not have the top QB in place to go for this.
Giants could consider it if they think Eli has 1 year left - probably not worth the risk - they need to tank to get QB of the future.
Commanders could consider it if they do not trade their QB.

 

[Hoofbite]

it does not benefit all teams like it would benefit the Cowboys.
first, no other top 10 team has an outrageous weakness like the Cowboys defense.
second, to benefit, to have a chance for the superbowl, it needs to be at least a top-10 team with at least a top 10 QB in place (since QB probably not available)
there are 4 other teams that this buy-the-superbowl strategy would benefit: Atlanta, Raider, Green Bay and Steelers.
i would guess it is too counter-culture for Steelers and Green Bay.
Patriots already have $60M cap space.
Chiefs, Cardinals, Texans and Bronco do not have the top QB in place to go for this.
Giants could consider it if they think Eli has 1 year left - probably not worth the risk - they need to tank to get QB of the future.
Commanders could consider it if they do not trade their QB.

These ideas and discussions about restructuring have been going on for years. Dallas has been good, bad, and in between along the way and they've restructured nearly every year. It hasn't benefitted Dallas. If throwing cap dollars was a guarantee to a Super Bowl then a handful of close teams would be doing it every year and they wouldn't even have to restructure or plan for a tanking year to do it.

 

[waldoputty]

These ideas and discussions about restructuring have been going on for years. Dallas has been good, bad, and in between along the way and they've restructured nearly every year. It hasn't benefitted Dallas. If throwing cap dollars was a guarantee to a Super Bowl then a handful of close teams would be doing it every year and they wouldn't even have to restructure or plan for a tanking year to do it.

the escalating cap has only been going on for 2 years or so.
so the amount you can game the system is significantly less before.
and the no-fun cap explosion happens a lot sooner.
with the annual $10M/year rise alone, it probably buys you an extra year of bliss before things come crashing down.

with the cowboys now, it is a perfect storm with the escalating cap, romo coming off the books and dak being cheap for 3 more years - all happening at the same time.
that is 3 independent events conspiring to enable the bliss to last more than 3 years.

there are no guarantees in life, but denver did it with the expiring Manning.
i dont know how the giants structured their rebuild last year.
i think the eagles tried.
seattle did not need to do it because they were young and their 3rd round QB took them to the promise land.
the one team that definitely did not do it was Carolina - they did not even keep their team together.

 

[Hoofbite]

the escalating cap has only been going on for 2 years or so.
so the amount you can game the system is significantly less before.
and the no-fun cap explosion happens a lot sooner.
with the annual $10M/year rise alone, it probably buys you an extra year of bliss before things come crashing down.

with the cowboys now, it is a perfect storm with the escalating cap, romo coming off the books and dak being cheap for 3 more years - all happening at the same time.
that is 3 independent events conspiring to enable the bliss to last more than 3 years.

there are no guarantees in life, but denver did it with the expiring Manning.
i dont know how the giants structured their rebuild last year.
i think the eagles tried.
seattle did not need to do it because they were young and their 3rd round QB took them to the promise land.
the one team that definitely did not do it was Carolina - they did not even keep their team together.[/QUOTE]

Those teams had cap space. Having space and creating space are not the same. Of all the teams listed, the one that restructures the most is Carolina.