The risk of high defensive draft picks

[CowboyRoy]

I agree with you 100% but I still wouldn't trade him for any RB but Gurley. None of the other backs in this league are worth squat. AP is worth a lot but I would not trade Zeke for AP based solely on age. Lacy.. No, David Johnson NO, Matthews NO, Charles NO, Miller NO, I wouldn't even do it for Leveon Bell strictly because of his drug issues there is a possibility he could miss more time. If Bell was never suspended then yeah I would make that trade in a heart beat.
He is not an immediate for sure going to be great player but then again THERE ARE NO PLAYERS IN THE DRAFT THAT ARE. I was against draft Zeke at 4. Now I gotta live with it. I am just tankful that he pplays a position that is easy for rookies to make an immediate impact. The RB position is the easiest position to fill with rookies.

The success of the run game has to do with the line pal. When are you guys going to realize that? You take any of the top 15 backs in the league and put them in our offense with our line and we will be leading the NFL in rushing. You dont need a Zeke. Its that simple.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I reject the notion that defenders take longer to have an impact. It entirely depends on the position and the scheme fit.

I also think you're undervaluing several of those players. Anthony Barr, for example, has had a big impact in MIN and is just at the point where he's hitting his stride. Mack and Donald are absolute game changers. There's a lot of defensive talent there on that list.

And, yes, I'd trade Elliott for an equivalent pick at any level of the defense. In a heartbeat. I'd have taken my RB in the 3rd and never thought any more about it.

I completely agree

 

[Knotamus]

Who cares if they take longer? What is your point? This is the dumbest angle ever. Since when did winning a few more games immediately become a priority? Its about winning championships. In case you didnt notice teams were picking defensive players in the first round and EVERY round.

Win NOW?? Win what now? So you can wave your pom poms more on Sunday we should suffer championships and long term success?

Fans like you sicken me.

Statements like this is a tad bit harsh. Not to mention, the typical extremist thinking is unnecessary. In case you need clarification.. The post is in response to the constant regurgitation from folks that keep knocking Dallas for picking an offensive player rather than Defense. Stop already, we get it and are well aware (as is the FO) that the defense needs to get stronger. The fact is the draft is used to collect talent, not players of need, regardless of position. Elliott IS the more talented player that was left on the board when Dallas picked at #4. Not to mention, he is more impactful this year than any other player that may be able to help us win a championship this year. It's a fact that defensive players typically take longer to acclamate to the NFL game, even longer for CB's.
So knowing that defensive players takes longer, let's see what Lawrence & Gregory do when they get back, let's see what Russell & Irving can do.. Throw in rookies Tapper & Collins.. The defense won't be as bad as some think. Let's remember the defense is what kept us close in games last year. Now imagine a powerhouse offense.

 

[Swanny]

The success of the run game has to do with the line pal. When are you guys going to realize that? You take any of the top 15 backs in the league and put them in our offense with our line and we will be leading the NFL in rushing. You dont need a Zeke. Its that simple.

I do realize that. Its EXACTLY WHY I DID NO T WANT ZEKE AT 4

 

[Knotamus]

The success of the run game has to do with the line pal. When are you guys going to realize that? You take any of the top 15 backs in the league and put them in our offense with our line and we will be leading the NFL in rushing. You dont need a Zeke. Its that simple.

I agree with your sentiments to a point. But there's a major difference of having a average back look good behind our OL verses having a good back look great behind our OL. What if Elliot is great? Then can you imagine what could happen?
Average back gains 1200yds, good back gains 15-1600 yards...great back can be rode all the way to the Super Bowl and reach 2000+yards, right?
Example-- this is why everybody wanted A.P. A year ago and he already had a lot of mileage on his legs. Now we have 20yo complete back that gained back to back 1800yds in a 12 game college seasons.

 

[AzorAhai]

I agree with your sentiments to a point. But there's a major difference of having a average back look good behind our OL verses having a good back look great behind our OL. What if Elliot is great? Then can you imagine what could happen?
Average back gains 1200yds, good back gains 15-1600 yards...great back can be rode all the way to the Super Bowl and reach 2000+yards, right?
Example-- this is why everybody wanted A.P. A year ago and he already had a lot of mileage on his legs. Now we have 20yo complete back that gained back to back 1800yds in a 12 game college seasons.

Vikings records

2007 8-8 no playoffs

2008 10-6 lost in WC Rd

2009 12-4 won divisonal Rd, lost NFC championship, BUT needed Favre

2010 6-10 no playoffs

2011 3-13 no playoffs

2012 10-6 lost in WC Rd

2013 5-10-1 no playoffs

2015 11-5 lost in WC Rd


Tell me again how an elite RB like Peterson is supposed to carry a team to the SB when the best RB the last decade plus has "carried" his team to one playoff victory. And before you point to us having an elite QB so it's different, if the RB needs an elite QB then he isn't carrying ****.

 

[Knotamus]

Vikings records

2007 8-8 no playoffs

2008 10-6 lost in WC Rd

2009 12-4 won divisonal Rd, lost NFC championship, BUT needed Favre

2010 6-10 no playoffs

2011 3-13 no playoffs

2012 10-6 lost in WC Rd

2013 5-10-1 no playoffs

2015 11-5 lost in WC Rd


Tell me again how an elite RB like Peterson is supposed to carry a team to the SB when the best RB the last decade plus has "carried" his team to one playoff victory. And before you point to us having an elite QB so it's different, if the RB needs an elite QB then he isn't carrying ****.

No QB, nuff said. C'mon man.. Too easy

You need both of course. Now your just grasping for straws

 

[Sydla]

No QB, nuff said. C'mon man.. Too easy

You need both of course. Now your just grasping for straws

Brady's Patriots, Manning's last SB would seem to refute the notion that you need a top QB and a top RB to win a SB.

 

[erod]

The Chiefs are basically the anti-example to your argument. Both with defense and RB.

Peters made a huge impact for them as a rookie. And the team went from 1-4 with their star rb to 11-5 and a 30-0 playoff win after he got hurt. Peters was a huge part of their 11 consecutive wins.

No quarterback, no win.

Football Axiom 101.

 

[lkelly]

This thread runs along the same silly line of thinking as fans that might trumpet Sebastian Janikowski finishing 10th in the league in points scored his rookie year. His number 17 overall pick was justified! He was the highest scoring rookie that year! See how impactful he was? Brian Urlacher went 9th and the Bears finished 5-11. What impact did he have? Man those Bears fans must have been dejected to see Janikowski lead all rookies in scoring. If their team could do it all over again...

#neverdraftdefenseoverkickers

I especially like the creative defense of an inane point by going with "And the Chiefs are.........still the Chiefs." I wonder how many Kansas City fans would fall to the floor laughing as they retorted with, "And the Cowboys are.......still the Cowboys."

 

[Knotamus]

Brady's Patriots, Manning's last SB would seem to refute the notion that you need a top QB and a top RB to win a SB.

I never said that.. Again, someone else's attempt to prove their point.. My point was strictly for our team only. I never said you need both. Since it's hard to get for some, I simply said that Im not satisfied with just an average back behind our OL. Yes, we have a top 10, if not, top 5 QB in Romo.. And id love to see what a great RB working in conjunction with him can do. Regardless what any say about Ramsey, he was not going to change our defense as a whole, but Elliott will be the icing on the cake that will make our Offense great.

 

[erod]

This thread runs along the same silly line of thinking as fans that might trumpet Sebastian Janikowski finishing 10th in the league in points scored his rookie year. His number 17 overall pick was justified! He was the highest scoring rookie that year! See how impactful he was? Brian Urlacher went 9th and the Bears finished 5-11. What impact did he have? Man those Bears fans must have been dejected to see Janikowski lead all rookies in scoring. If their team could do it all over again...

#neverdraftdefenseoverkickers

I especially like the creative defense of an inane point by going with "And the Chiefs are.........still the Chiefs." I wonder how many Kansas City fans would fall to the floor laughing as they retorted with, "And the Cowboys are.......still the Cowboys."

The Chiefs draft in the top 10 picks about eight times a decade. Even the silly Cowboy aren't that futile.

 

[erod]

LT averaged 3.6 yards a carry his first season.

So even if he is LT, that doesn't mean he's going to go into his rookie season as good as he's ever going to be.

Behind a crap offensive line.

 

[the_h0wey]

This team needs defensive help! Zeke was a wasted pick! How is this team going to win if they don't address the defense! Defense, defense, defense!

OK, let's put this to bed. DEFENSIVE DRAFT PICKS TAKE A LOOOOOONG TIME TO MAKE IMPACTS. Period. That is, if they make an impact at all, which many do not.

Drafting them now is an investment in three years from now. You know, when Romo, Witten, Dez, Lee, and half these starters will be gone or too old to be meaningful anymore. About the time the offense will have to be rebuilt with guys, that will also take 3-4 years to develop!

Let's look back at all the incredible defensive talent drafted in recent years.

Top 10 defensive picks in 2015
Dante Fowler, Jr.
Leonard Williams
Vic Beasley
Trae Waynes
Kevin Johnson
Arik Armstead
Marcus Peters
Bud Dupree
Shane Rae
Shaq Thompson

Can a get a huge "MEH"?

Top 10 defensive picks in 2014
Jadaveon Clowney
Kalil Mack
Justin Gilbert
Anthony Barr
Aaron Donald
Kyle Fuller
Ryan Shazier
CJ Mosely
Calvin Pryor
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix

Mack, Donald, and a bunch of dudes. (Jaylon Smith could be another Mack.)

Top 10 defensive picks in 2013
Dion Jordan
Ezekiel Ansah
Barkevious Mingo
Dee Milliner
DJ Hayden
Sheldon Richardson
Star Lotulelei
Kenny Vaccaro
Jarvis Jones
Eric Reid

Would you trade an immediate top 3 running back for any of these guys straight up?

The point remains, defensive players usually take years to make an impact, if they ever do at all. This team has a window of opportunity before it, and very few players can step in and make an immediate impact while the veteran stars are still here.

Win now. Always, if you can in the free-agency, injury-laden NFL.

There is more talent in that list than what you are giving credit for. I don't believe Zeke is a top 3 running back in the league right now.

 

[AzorAhai]

No QB, nuff said. C'mon man.. Too easy

You need both of course. Now your just grasping for straws

If you need a QB for a RB to be effective, how is that a RB carrying the team? A Great RB can be rode right to a SB right? So we've established we need a QB for a RB to be effective, do we need a really good OL as well? What about a great WR so they don't stack the box? I'm just trying to determine exactly how much talent you need around an elite RB before he can carry you to a SB.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

I don't care if they are offensive or defensive, you should never take a high player. We did it with Gregory and it didn't work, I am pretty sure Claiborne was high when we picked him too.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Statements like this is a tad bit harsh. Not to mention, the typical extremist thinking is unnecessary. In case you need clarification.. The post is in response to the constant regurgitation from folks that keep knocking Dallas for picking an offensive player rather than Defense. Stop already, we get it and are well aware (as is the FO) that the defense needs to get stronger. The fact is the draft is used to collect talent, not players of need, regardless of position. Elliott IS the more talented player that was left on the board when Dallas picked at #4. Not to mention, he is more impactful this year than any other player that may be able to help us win a championship this year. It's a fact that defensive players typically take longer to acclamate to the NFL game, even longer for CB's.
So knowing that defensive players takes longer, let's see what Lawrence & Gregory do when they get back, let's see what Russell & Irving can do.. Throw in rookies Tapper & Collins.. The defense won't be as bad as some think. Let's remember the defense is what kept us close in games last year. Now imagine a powerhouse offense.

He was NOT regarded as the more talented player. ON MOST boards he was not. And if you dont think ALL teams draft for need at some point then you are sorely mistaken.

Now Zeke was a fine pick, but dont sit here and tell people that care about winning championships and understand the RIGHT way to build a long term winner that the ONLY thing that matter is "winning more now"

And that was his EXACT point. Short sighted, win now, thinking is EXACTLY what Jerry has been doing for 15 years and its why this team has been middling for the last 15 years. The truth of the matter is when you attempt to "win now" you often wind up reaching which is EXACTLY what that Zeke pick was and the 2nd round pick after it.

 

[erod]

If you need a QB for a RB to be effective, how is that a RB carrying the team? A Great RB can be rode right to a SB right? So we've established we need a QB for a RB to be effective, do we need a really good OL as well? What about a great WR so they don't stack the box? I'm just trying to determine exactly how much talent you need around an elite RB before he can carry you to a SB.

You need a good QB to even take the field in a meaningful way. Teams that don't are one-legged sprinters.

Elite running backs can be ridden to great success, a la Marshawn Lynch. But when teams sell out to stop the run game, you have to have a QB to make them pay.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Statements like this is a tad bit harsh. Not to mention, the typical extremist thinking is unnecessary. In case you need clarification.. The post is in response to the constant regurgitation from folks that keep knocking Dallas for picking an offensive player rather than Defense. Stop already, we get it and are well aware (as is the FO) that the defense needs to get stronger. The fact is the draft is used to collect talent, not players of need, regardless of position. Elliott IS the more talented player that was left on the board when Dallas picked at #4. Not to mention, he is more impactful this year than any other player that may be able to help us win a championship this year. It's a fact that defensive players typically take longer to acclamate to the NFL game, even longer for CB's.
So knowing that defensive players takes longer, let's see what Lawrence & Gregory do when they get back, let's see what Russell & Irving can do.. Throw in rookies Tapper & Collins.. The defense won't be as bad as some think. Let's remember the defense is what kept us close in games last year. Now imagine a powerhouse offense.

LOL!!!!! We ARE NOT winning a championship this year. Forget it, its a pipe dream. That statement a lone wreaks that you know NOTHING about the game. Stop it already. You guys sound foolish.

What part of "winning now doesnt matter" dont you get?

 

[Knotamus]

LOL!!!!! We ARE NOT winning a championship this year. Forget it, its a pipe dream. That statement a lone wreaks that you know NOTHING about the game. Stop it already. You guys sound foolish.

What part of "winning now doesnt matter" dont you get?

Lol. Okie dokie guy.. You know it all and are the almighty. You definitely know more than the Owner, NFL coaches, scouts, etc.. Keep living in your own world buddy