The risk of high defensive draft picks

[CowboyRoy]

I agree with your sentiments to a point. But there's a major difference of having a average back look good behind our OL verses having a good back look great behind our OL. What if Elliot is great? Then can you imagine what could happen?
Average back gains 1200yds, good back gains 15-1600 yards...great back can be rode all the way to the Super Bowl and reach 2000+yards, right?
Example-- this is why everybody wanted A.P. A year ago and he already had a lot of mileage on his legs. Now we have 20yo complete back that gained back to back 1800yds in a 12 game college seasons.

A great run game means nothing with a bad defense.

I didnt want AP.

Decent back I never wanted, good back not good enough, Very good back is plenty, Great back is wonderful, but not at the expense of the defense. You can pick up very good running backs in rounds 2 and 3 and FA. You can also get GREAT backs in the middle of the first round in some years. No need to do what we did with our 4th pick. Winning a game or two more means nothing to me if it doesnt lead to long term contending status.

 

[DandyDon52]

Each team is different, with different needs, and different strengths.
Some are close to being a contender ,some far away, and some are already contenders.
By contender I mean a team that can get in playoffs and compete with the other playoff teams.

So to say we should draft any specific way or position is flawed.

Dallas is unique in that we have Romo who is near the end, or so we think, and we have the star WR,
and the Top OL which is young, and a overall decent offensive team.

Our defense isnt as bad as some make it out to be but does have the 4th qtr let down problem.

So they could have drafted defense and get a RB late, but there is no guarantee they get a star
player. Ramesy may or may not be a star in the nfl.

Cowboys went with elliot who seems to be a cant miss pick, but we just have to wait and see on that
like with any player we might have picked.

To me with Romo's window closing, the elliot pick was the right pick, because the Cowboys dont have time
to build a great defense and still have Romo when they get it built.

Once Tony is gone, I doubt there will be any championships coming no matter how good the defense might be.

I want to add that to have a great defense, you not only need the right players you need a top DC to
go with them.
Wade Phillips was a big reason denver defense was so good, but people give all the credit to the players.

So then you have to wonder is Marinelli a championship DC ??

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you need a QB for a RB to be effective, how is that a RB carrying the team? A Great RB can be rode right to a SB right? So we've established we need a QB for a RB to be effective, do we need a really good OL as well? What about a great WR so they don't stack the box? I'm just trying to determine exactly how much talent you need around an elite RB before he can carry you to a SB.

The only you really don't need is a good defense.

 

[tm1119]

This might be the worst thread made on this subject so far....and that's saying something

 

[CowboyRoy]

Lol. Okie dokie guy.. You know it all and are the almighty. You definitely know more than the Owner, NFL coaches, scouts, etc.. Keep living in your own world buddy

I never claimed to know it all, but I know enough to know that we are not winning any championships with this horrid defense. Keep dreaming if you like. On the other side of the coin I will enjoy watching Zeke tear up the league and I will enjoy watching us possibly make the playoffs. But at the end of the day, it will mean very little.

In a dark reality, all this is going to do is help us draft lower in the draft for the next 3 years until Romo is completely toast. Picking late in the draft wont get you stud CB's, pass rushers, or QB for the future. Trust me...........Jerry will be reaching and picking for need more than ever now. Unless Romo goes down of course. Then the zeke pick wont mean squat anyway. Oh wait, we might win a few more game. YIPPEEEEEE!!!!

 

[DandyDon52]

I want to say also that denver added defensive players, and made thier defense better and won the SB.
But that isnt going to be the answer for all other teams.
Manning at the end was a bus driver on a rather tame offense, so they needed the defense to win.
2 years prior a better manning and Denver offense could not score or move the ball on seattle,
but Dallas mauled them the next season.

There is no set formula for all teams, and sure having a great defense is nice to have , but they are not easy
to build and you have to have the right DC too.

If Marinelli is not the right DC it might not matter who you draft for defense, and you will still not have a great
defense.

 

[AzorAhai]

The only you really don't need is a good defense.

I guess thats a good thing, because we definitely don't have one right now.

 

[CowboyRoy]

If you need a QB for a RB to be effective, how is that a RB carrying the team? A Great RB can be rode right to a SB right? So we've established we need a QB for a RB to be effective, do we need a really good OL as well? What about a great WR so they don't stack the box? I'm just trying to determine exactly how much talent you need around an elite RB before he can carry you to a SB.

NO we need a great QB, a great RB, a great receiver, A great TE, and the best Oline in football to make up for our horrid defense. Or you could just start drafting defense and then you dont need all that. LOL

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I guess thats a good thing, because we definitely don't have one right now.

That's true.

 

[AzorAhai]

This might be the worst thread made on this subject so far....and that's saying something

I know right? Called it a bunch of meh with a list containing players like K. Mack, A. Donald, CJ Mosley, A. Barr, M. Peters, Z. Ansah, etc.

 

[the_h0wey]

Watch Zeke break his toe on his first carry from scrimmage and there goes our season...actually it wouldn't be because DMC and Morris are capable of carrying the load sans Zeke. Which will be the nail in the coffin for the argument that Zeke's 4th overall draft pick was a valued need filled.

Problem with that is it is highly unlikely you keep both of them. Neither one of them plays special teams. Be more likely you would have one of them paired with Darius Jackson and Dunbar if he is able to come back from his knee injury

 

[CowboyRoy]

I want to say also that denver added defensive players, and made thier defense better and won the SB.
But that isnt going to be the answer for all other teams.
Manning at the end was a bus driver on a rather tame offense, so they needed the defense to win.
2 years prior a better manning and Denver offense could not score or move the ball on seattle,
but Dallas mauled them the next season.

There is no set formula for all teams, and sure having a great defense is nice to have , but they are not easy
to build and you have to have the right DC too.

If Marinelli is not the right DC it might not matter who you draft for defense, and you will still not have a great
defense.

The Oline of Denver was terrible. So Manning had no time and the run game stalled. Football isnt tough to figure out. Denver needs to fix the Oline and get a new QB. Dallas had one of the best run games in the NFL and they need lots of defense. But they go out and get a RB? Fun to watch, but stupid football sense.

Just think about it. We had the 4th pick in the draft and the 3rd pick in the 2nd round and Jerry wanted Paxton Lynch. Elway won the SB and had the last pick in the first round and the last pick in the 2nd round and they got Lynch and Jerry didnt.

Do you think a bunch of fans from Denver are crying that Lynch wont make them better this year like a RB would have? How did Elway get their QB of the future and we wiffed?

But wait, we got a great RB!!!! LOL

We could have traded back, gotten the pass rusher, the RB, Lynch, and Jaylon Smith if Jerry had played his cards correctly.

 

[DBOY3141]

NO we need a great QB, a great RB, a great receiver, A great TE, and the best Oline in football to make up for our horrid defense. Or you could just start drafting defense and then you dont need all that. LOL

Since 2010(not counting 2016 draft) we have used 27 of 46 picks on defense. 2-1st rounders, 4 -2nd rounders, 2-3rd rounders. We use enough picks....we just don't who to draft.

 

[DandyDon52]

NO we need a great QB, a great RB, a great receiver, A great TE, and the best Oline in football to make up for our horrid defense. Or you could just start drafting defense and then you dont need all that. LOL

Well dallas did get defensive players in the draft, and Smith may be like a # 1 pick next year.
They also got some lower round Def players.
And they got thornton in FA.... and Hardy last year.
Also last year they got gregory and jones, year before Lawrence.
So they are adding players to defense, in draft and FA, maybe they just arent picking the right players?
Next year they can add more, but it all depends on how good marinelli really is.

With scandrick back and thornton, and the new players drafted the defense should be better than
2014-15

 

[Stash]

Crap thread.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

No, I'm saying that 95 percent of the time, they don't make an immediate impact. If they ever do.

This team doesn't have 3-4 years to wait. If a guy can be a major contributor immediately, then take him.

Romo, Witten, and Dez have about 3 good years left, if that.

you are assuming that the Cowboys are making a big "win now" push. They are not. If they really wanted to win now, they would have used all available resources this offseason to upgrade, especially on defense. They didn't, instead they went dumpster diving. If they were in win now mode, they would have drafted a player that can help now instead of Smith. I'm on board with Elliot and believe that Ramsey would show the same as the DBs we have now, without a upgraded pass rush. The kid was not a ball hawking playmaker in College, he won't be one in the NFL.

 

[DandyDon52]

you are assuming that the Cowboys are making a big "win now" push. They are not. If they really wanted to win now, they would have used all available resources this offseason to upgrade, especially on defense. They didn't, instead they went dumpster diving. If they were in win now mode, they would have drafted a player that can help now instead of Smith. I'm on board with Elliot and believe that Ramsey would show the same as the DBs we have now, without a upgraded pass rush. The kid was not a ball hawking playmaker in College, he won't be one in the NFL.

I agree with most of what you say except the win now, jerry always wants to win now.
They did all they could in FA, They didnt have much money and they have to resign players now and in future.
They spent big on dez and got 0 return last year, maybe they get something for the 80 mil this year.

 

[DandyDon52]

The Oline of Denver was terrible. So Manning had no time and the run game stalled. Football isnt tough to figure out. Denver needs to fix the Oline and get a new QB. Dallas had one of the best run games in the NFL and they need lots of defense. But they go out and get a RB? Fun to watch, but stupid football sense.

Just think about it. We had the 4th pick in the draft and the 3rd pick in the 2nd round and Jerry wanted Paxton Lynch. Elway won the SB and had the last pick in the first round and the last pick in the 2nd round and they got Lynch and Jerry didnt.

Do you think a bunch of fans from Denver are crying that Lynch wont make them better this year like a RB would have? How did Elway get their QB of the future and we wiffed?

But wait, we got a great RB!!!! LOL

Well Roy your speculating big on lynch, we have to wait and see how that turns out.
He could be good or not so good.
Dallas could have had him instead of smith, but they wanted smith.

I never said jerry and his crew, were good at the draft.

The last few years, I have liked some of the picks, but not others.

Like I said each team is different, so what is good for dallas might not be as good for denver
and vice versa.
We could have traded back, gotten the pass rusher, the RB, Lynch, and Jaylon Smith if Jerry had played his cards correctly.

 

[lkelly]

The Chiefs draft in the top 10 picks about eight times a decade. Even the silly Cowboy aren't that futile.

The Chiefs have drafted in the top 10 five times since 1990. So yeah, about eight times a decade, only not really.

Still struggling with the logic that drafting a Pro Bowl defensive back is a waste of time because, you know, a team like the Chiefs is the Chiefs. I'm sure they are equally miserable about drafting Eric Berry. Maybe they will trade him straight up for our top 3 RB that has zero career yards. After all, he's top 3 because you said so.

 

[Kevinicus]

The Chiefs draft in the top 10 picks about eight times a decade. Even the silly Cowboy aren't that futile.

Or...about 8 times in the last 40 years.

You obviously know nothing about the Chefs.