The Roy Myth Thread
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AdamJT13
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trueblue1687;2077707 said:
And that's the myth. Roy never said he "no longer tries to clobber players." In fact, he said, "Please believe, the hits will come." Twice.
"One of the worst" coverage safeties doesn't lead all starting safeties in interceptions, have one of the highest rates of passes defended and allow one of the lowest completion percentages, all of which Roy did in 2006.
Is he one of the best coverage safeties? No, and nobody has ever claimed that. But he's not one of the worst, either.
FuzzyLumpkins
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Sorry guys but what I see is a bunch of anecdotes in rebuttal to Mr JT. i know for a fact that he can either factually or numerically prove his point on each and every one of his points.
If he allows less yard, TDs etc than almost all other SS and he can point out how guys who are portrayed as better Bigby are lesser that is much more compelling than saying he went into a coma.
To me this is a case of relativism. A few years ago, Roy was unequivocally the best strong safety in the NFL. Now he is no longer at that level but people take it to mean he is not playing at a high level.
Point to AJT.
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If he allows less yard, TDs etc than almost all other SS and he can point out how guys who are portrayed as better Bigby are lesser that is much more compelling than saying he went into a coma.
To me this is a case of relativism. A few years ago, Roy was unequivocally the best strong safety in the NFL. Now he is no longer at that level but people take it to mean he is not playing at a high level.
Point to AJT.
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AdamJT13
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Rampage;2077735 said:
The NFL doesn't release playing time stats for the Pro Bowl.
The fact is, he was playing safety in the Pro Bowl, which you claimed didn't happen (hence, the myth). Does it really matter exactly how many snaps he got?
AdamJT13
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Rampage;2077746 said:
You claimed he NEVER played on defense --
http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2076972&postcount=35
Rampage;2076972 said:
so find out how many snaps he played cause i bet i wasn't far off.
Yakuza Rich
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cowboyed;2077485 said:
These analysts are the same people that say that Roy was taken out of the game on passing downs last year when it simply wasn't true and instead was taken out of the game when Dallas was in the 3-4 base scheme, and it wasn't all that often he was taken out anyway. The stats are right there for them to use, but they would rather just go with what they assume. Not to forget all of the big pass plays given up where the "experts" and "analysts" blame Roy Williams when it's nowhere near his responsibility or fault on the play. Kind of like the first Toomer touchdown in the playoff game where Roy was getting blamed on a play where Toomer was being covered Anthony Henry and Toomer broke free of Henry's and Greg Ellis' tackles. But guess whom the camera was panning to and the "experts" were blaming?
And I haven't really heard the coaching staff criticize Roy anything more than they had some high expectations in 2007 for Roy. That hardly means they think he sucks, which is the general consensus from the majority of Cowboys fans, or so it seems.
YAKUZA
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The opinion or the act that speaks volumes is that he was actually taken out in obvious passing situations. I doubt that happens to any other healthy pro bowl safeties in the league.
He hasn't covered well and he hasn't made up for that defect by making big plays against the run or with sacks so..............
This is a passing league and a safety that cannot cover is a liability and even more so when he eats up so much cap room that could be used for other players.
He hasn't covered well and he hasn't made up for that defect by making big plays against the run or with sacks so..............
This is a passing league and a safety that cannot cover is a liability and even more so when he eats up so much cap room that could be used for other players.
ChrisCanty99
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I think both sides in the argument are right to an extent.
Anti-Roy: He ISN'T making the impact plays he used to; ints, forced fumbles, big hits. Also, teams really do get good results isolating a good TE on Roy.
Pro-Roy: Roy's stats aren't bad at all compared with other safeties.
Two years ago, would anyone have thought that TO would be pretty universally admired by Cowboys fans and RW similarly despised?
Anti-Roy: He ISN'T making the impact plays he used to; ints, forced fumbles, big hits. Also, teams really do get good results isolating a good TE on Roy.
Pro-Roy: Roy's stats aren't bad at all compared with other safeties.
Two years ago, would anyone have thought that TO would be pretty universally admired by Cowboys fans and RW similarly despised?
AdamJT13
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mmillman;2077753 said:
That's Myth No. 22 on the list.
In obvious passing situations, Roy was almost always on the field. The few times he came out -- an average of four plays per game -- were almost always on early downs and running downs when we were in our base 3-4 front. We didn't use a base 3-4 front in obvious passing situations.
Temo
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You're exaggerating what people say... I've said, and other level-headed people have also said, that he doesn't tackle well, not that he can't tackle.
Another two exaggerations. Level-headed people have said that he doesn't cover well and is one of the worst coverage safeties in the league who gets paid like he does. I'm not going to compare him to guys who make a fraction of what he does.
Well, it doesn't make sense to take a salary cap hit for a safety who is still average, which is what I believe he is. Doesn't mean he's not overpaid.
At his current price, no.
You don't pay much for safeties, it's one of the least paid positions in the NFL for a reason. So no, it's not big, but you have to compare it to replacement value.
In general man, I agree with you that IF a lot of the stuff on your list were said, then yea, they're myths. But I feel like you're taking a lot of stuff to extremes by using words like "always" and "never". Roy Williams was a guy who had an off season last season. He's not a bad player, but he has his faults. And he's overpaid if his play matches that of last year, though hopeufully he'll rebound.
