The Roy Myth Thread

[AdamJT13]

you may have posted this elsewhere but my understanding was cutting roy would be a $6.66mil hit to the cap (6.67 actually but i felt a bit satanic here). you say we'd be in a better position.

all the roy bashing/defense aside, how would it breakdown if he were cut vs. if he stays? if you already have this somewhere a link would be most appreciated.

The cap costs if he plays each season under his current contract (and not including his workout pay, which would amount to another $6,720 this season if he earns all of it) --

2008 $6,667,385
2009 $6,620,000
2010 $7,020,000

The cap costs if he plays this season and gets cut before June 2, 2009, and we elect not to use the June 2 treatment --

2008 $6,667,385
2009 $4,400,000
2010 $0

If he plays this season and gets cut after June 1, 2009, or if he gets cut before that and we use the June 2 treatment --

2008 $6,667,385
2009 $2,200,000
2010 $2,200,000

If he gets cut today and we use the June 2 treatment (or cut him after June 1) with no other techniques to move the cap room around --

2008 $2,947,385
2009 $4,400,000
2010 $0

If we cut him anytime this offseason and use one of the many possible ways to move cap room around --

2008 $5,847,385
2009 $1,500,000
2010 $0

As you can see, this last example gives a 2008 cap charge that's lower than ANY of the scenarios that involve him playing this season, a 2009 cap charge that's lower than ANY of the scenarios that involve him playing this season, and a 2010 cap charge of zero.

No matter how you slice it, it's $3.72 million of cap room that can be moved into whichever season we want to spend it, in any proportion.

 

[AdamJT13]

I actaully quoted the post (from you) Iceberg was looking for. It was a cap question.

Oh, I see. Never mind.

 

[iceberg]

thank you adam. i'll pass this around on my board also if you don't mind.

 

[Idgit]

And here is the exact words from Jerry, if people think I am making stuff up:

"I think that we can expect a much more productive Roy Williams this coming year. That would imply that he had room to be more productive, and I think there are several things I think Roy will know and better deal with. The Roy Williams rule -- I think he will have an acclimation and handle it better. I think that is something that has impacted his play. And I know that it has. I handled the hearing. I represented him on the hearing in the suspension. My point is that is something that has had an impact on him.

But that's not only technique, that's positioning. That's a lot of things. That's get out of ahead of the guy, a little more than coming from behind. There are a lot of things that are involved there he needs to work on. I know he's going to do it better. There are things that impact that can make that better. Our coaching staff, Wade (Phillips), can do some things that can help his game. He'll do better. ...

"My answer to all of (the criticism) is I have every reason to believe technically not just willing it or wishing I, I have every reason to believe he'll play better than last year."


Jerry has stated unequivocally that:

1. Roy Williams play dropped off
2. He believes that Roy will make the necessary corrections to improve his game
3. He believes that Roy can adjust to the horse-collar rule, as well as admitted that it has impacted his game somewhat
4. He stated that part of the reason for Roy Williams even resorting to the horse-collar is because of not only technique, but positioning. This is a direct refutation of those that argue that Roy was never out of the play or was performing his assignments correctly.
5. When he refers to getting ahead of the guy, that clearly points to Roy's decision making ability.

It is quite obvious Jerry is making comments that are somewhat influenced by what the coaching staff saw.

No matter the people who argue that the anti-Roy crowds are exxaggerating, the fact is, where there is smoke, there is fire. Campo, to Jerry, to Greg Ellis all point to the reality that Roy better get his act together.

I don't think you're making stuff up. Generally, I think you just misinterpret what you hear. The quote, though, is circumstantial evidence to support your opinion. Kudos. Really. It'd be nice to have a link, but I remember the quote coming out and trust that you reported it accurately.

This goes to what Roy can do well to improve on his play from last year. That's a discussion worth having, and it sounds like his coaches are on the same page with most of the sane posters in this forum in this regard.

 

[bbgun]

stop bashing people with your critisizm and i'll be glad to.

That's rich coming from you, Mr. Glass House. You do nothing but stir up trouble and pick fights around here. Hell, it's your calling card.

i did not see you go "sorry, i was wrong about that" i saw "oh well he still messed this up!"

Why is that important? Instead of a phantom penalty, he screwed up a few plays later. The damage was still done. It's like arguing if Katrina displaced 5 million people or 4.8M.

when i read back i do see a more balanced post, my bad for missing that.

Someone get the smelling salts. Here comes the "but."

that however doesn't change the point once you saw your "critisizm" was wrong you just dumped it and ran to another.

Because the two are interchangeable. Good lord you're dense.

as for a "dearth of bad plays to choose from" - it helps when you pick on roy for the plays he's made, not just lob up a current myth as fact and then dump it for another when shown to be a "myth".

And who coined the "Elite, top 5 safety" myth? Not moi. The Roy groupies went too far with the praise, and now they're witnessing a good old fashioned backlash. It happens.

if i did that a time or two i'd be pretty hesitant to lob out myth after myth as fact w/o checking myself or at least staying out of the discussion.

Excellent advice. Heal thyself.

 

[iceberg]

Why is that important? Instead of a phantom penalty, he screwed up a few plays later. The damage was still done. It's like arguing if Katrina displaced 5 million people or 4.8M.

because your original "complaint" was wrong. when i go bash someone and am proving wrong in my point, i normally don't dismiss that point and reach for any other.

i start wondering about my points in general.

it's like you don't even know what you're whining about but damn it, you will continue to whine regardless of knowing why.

all i'm saying. take it any way you wish.

 

[bbgun]

because your original "complaint" was wrong. when i go bash someone and am proving wrong in my point, i normally don't dismiss that point and reach for any other.

i start wondering about my points in general.

it's like you don't even know what you're whining about but damn it, you will continue to whine regardless of knowing why.

all i'm saying. take it any way you wish.

Al I know is, I've been far more complimentary towards Roy than Adam has been critical. No Cowboy fan in his right mind would want to see him do poorly just to be proven "right"--whatever that means. As I wrote the other day, he's better than anything we have in-house, anything that was on the free agent market last month, is still a force in the run game, his 2009(?) replacement could be much worse, and did a better job of keeping plays in front of him last year. What more do you want? Blood?

When Roy plays well, this team gets a little closer to the promised land. We don't "hate" players for noticing things about them. We don't "hate" TO for the drops. We don't "hate" Flo for the false starts. We're frustrated, that's all. We see potential that isn't being fully realized. Until someone better comes along, the situation is what it is. Everything else is a colossal waste of time.

 

[AdamJT13]

Al I know is, I've been far more complimentary towards Roy than Adam has been critical.

I've repeatedly pointed out everything worth criticizing him for -- the big plays he gave up in 2006, the lack of turnovers and big plays he created in 2007, each particular touchdowns he's actually responsible for, etc. But for whatever reason, you seem to have developed some intense personal hatred toward me because I won't grab a torch and join a mob whose biggest arguments are based on myths and hyperbole.

 

[iceberg]

Al I know is, I've been far more complimentary towards Roy than Adam has been critical. No Cowboy fan in his right mind would want to see him do poorly just to be proven "right"--whatever that means. As I wrote the other day, he's better than anything we have in-house, anything that was on the free agent market last month, is still a force in the run game, his 2009(?) replacement could be much worse, and did a better job of keeping plays in front of him last year. What more do you want? Blood?

When Roy plays well, this team gets a little closer to the promised land. We don't "hate" players for noticing things about them. We don't "hate" TO for the drops. We don't "hate" Flo for the false starts. We're frustrated, that's all. We see potential that isn't being fully realized. Until someone better comes along, the situation is what it is. Everything else is a colossal waste of time.

fair enough, to me when you get right down to it the moaning and complaining about him is a huge waste of time in it's own right. not YOU per se, but the basic roy-bashing crowd. like i said and adam posted above, it does get to be a witch hunt and his "problems" get way over magnified by people who insist roy sucks and will scream it till he's gone. at that time they'll find something else to scream about.

however, apologies for my over-stating your anti-roy stance. i did do that and i should have read up more on your views first.

 

[Stash]

however, apologies for my over-stating your anti-roy stance. i did do that and i should have read up more on your views first.

Takes a man to admit when he's wrong.

Some of the bboys around here could stand to learn that lesson.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

people who insist roy sucks and will scream it till he's gone. at that time they'll find something else to scream about.

however, apologies for my over-stating your anti-roy stance. i did do that and i should have read up more on your views first.

Yep, and you know another thing they will do, when he is on another team, they will constantly post negative and often extremely biased articles about how he is sucking with another team.

I cannot wait to see #38 come out and hit somebody this fall.

 

[bbgun]

Takes a man to admit when he's wrong.

Some of the bboys around here could stand to learn that lesson.

I admit it: I never should have voted for Perot. But I wanted a folksy president.

 

[dallasfaniac]

I admit it: I never should have voted for Perot. But I wanted a folksy president.

How could you not vote for Perot after Dana Carvey's impersonation? I guess not that many people watch SNL.

 

[Stash]

I admit it: I never should have voted for Perot. But I wanted a folksy president.

See?

Was that so difficult?

Hey, what's with the underdog stuff anyway? You a big fan or something?

I was always curious...

 

[bbgun]

See?

Was that so difficult?

Hey, what's with the underdog stuff anyway? You a big fan or something?

Yes. Terrible movie, though. Of course, NBC wrecked The Bionic Woman, which was another fave. You can't go home again.

 

[Stash]

Yes. Terrible movie, though. Of course, NBC wrecked The Bionic Woman, which was another fave. You can't go home again.

Underdog used to make med mad because I only saw it when I saw home sick from school and then only 1 episode per day so I never got to see the end of any of 'em!



Hey, there's always 90210.

I think I read somewhere that they're actually remaking that gem!



When did the original idea die?

 

[WDN]

Yep, and you know another thing they will do, when he is on another team, they will constantly post negative and often extremely biased articles about how he is sucking with another team.

I cannot wait to see #38 come out and hit somebody this fall.

I sure hope you don't hold your breath.

 

[Idgit]

I sure hope you don't hold your breath.

Why not share with us your reasons for skepticism?

 

[dallasfaniac]

Why not share with us your reasons for skepticism?

Because holding it for more than a few minutes is tough enough, let alone until fall?

 

[gbrittain]

I just wanted to be post #400 of this thread and pad my stats.