Theory: good but not great

chuck520

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Underachievers.

Two different 13-3 one seeds, and a 12-4 two seed. Results: one and done.

Only team to fail to make a championship in any of three straight seasons of 12 wins, an NFL record of futility.

Current NFL record longest streak of playoff appearances without making it to a conference title game, an NFL record of futility (broke their own record last year).
did those 13-3 and 12-4 teams overachieve? Were they really that good? If the team hasnt been great all these years why would anyone expect them to make a championship game or a Super Bowl

For example, Miami hasnt made a champ game in 32 years, a SB in 39 years and won a SB in 50 years but for many years they were expected to win or make the Super Bowl as they are now.
 

chuck520

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I think everyone was venting after the playoff game and rightfully so. But to do it 24x7x365? Not healthy.
Because they think the team is better then they are Instead they got exposed in the playoffs as good/above avg team not a great team.
 

chuck520

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They call the Dez catch a catch and they are certainly a contender.
2014 team was good but it overachieved. They had a career year from Romo and Demarco Murray. The defense was good but not great.
They were coming off three straight 8-8 seasons and didnt have much turnover. They drafted Martin and Demarcus Lawrence but Demarcus hardly played that year other than that who stands out from that rookie class or in free agency? Rolando McClain?
 

fivetwos

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They are very similiar to Miami in the 1980's, 1990's, early 2000's although they had different owners produced the same results. They never drafted a running back, they had some good defense but for the most part the defense was awful every year. Shula kept the same DC for years. They spent a bunch of money on free agents in Shula final few years, they made the playoffs then knocked out, Shula fired. Jimmy came in rebuilt the defense then the offense stunk, he couldn't find a RB either and Marino got older. Wanstet replaced Marino with Fiedler, not a great QB, then they get a running back Ricky Williams and he had a good defense but always the same results. 50 years since they won the Super Bowl.

I recall Miami fans screaming at Shula saying he stunk and they needed Jimmy then they were screaming at Jimmy to get Marino that Super Bowl title, then the fans wanted Marino out after 3 straight embarrassing playoff defeats. He lost his last game 62-7. The media and fans thought Miami should win or make the Super Bowl every year for some reason even though they were never a great team.
I’m guessing you’re a Dolphin fan of some sort. Nothing wrong there.

I lived down there in the late 90s into early 2000s and my friends were big fans, and knowledgeable. I rooted for the Dolphins and Jimmy the way my UM alum friend rooted for Jimmy while in Dallas.

Jimmy was in a tough spot with Marino. He really was. He couldn’t get rid of him yet knew he wasn’t gonna be able to get it done. That situation morphed into going with the bus driver QB route…Jay Fiedler. That wasn’t enough. He left Wannstedt a great roster, aside from QB.

Miami is actually the only one with no title game drought excuse though. There’s four otherwise…Jerry’s kids, Washington, Houston and Cleveland. The latter two were expansion teams during that time, and Washington had the other ‘hands on’ owner in the league, which….didn’t serve them very well either.
 

jazzcat22

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That is my point they dont have great owner, GM, coach or QB all these years so the results are predictable. However every year we hear how they are Super Bowl contenders for some reason.
Either they are overachieving or they are just good or above avg not great. Miami had the same issues all those years. Its happening again because people expect Miami to be great now because of Tua and Hill but not have won a playoff game in over 20 years, no Super Bowl appearance in 40 years, no Super Bowl title in 50 years.
When have we heard they are SB contenders? Maybe a few had said it the past few years. I do not recall it from the Garrett water decade. Nor when MM took over either.
 

chuck520

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I’m guessing you’re a Dolphin fan of some sort. Nothing wrong there.

I lived down there in the late 90s into early 2000s and my friends were big fans, and knowledgeable. I rooted for the Dolphins and Jimmy the way my UM alum friend rooted for Jimmy while in Dallas.

Jimmy was in a tough spot with Marino. He really was. He couldn’t get rid of him yet knew he wasn’t gonna be able to get it done. That situation morphed into going with the bus driver QB route…Jay Fiedler. That wasn’t enough. He left Wannstedt a great roster, aside from QB.

Miami is actually the only one with no title game drought excuse though. There’s four otherwise…Jerry’s kids, Washington, Houston and Cleveland. The latter two were expansion teams during that time, and Washington had the other ‘hands on’ owner in the league, which….didn’t serve them very well either.
No, I'm not a Dolphins fans I just recall how they were expected to win every year even though they were never great. Marino never had a great run game or great defense in fact both were usually the worst in the league and he played great. They had no chance against the great NFC teams in the 1980's and 1990's much less the other AFC teams.

I agree with you, I remember being surprised how a great coach like Shula who won Super Bowls with a run game could not find a decent runner. Jimmy came in and rebuilt the defense but couldnt find a good RB either and Marino continued to deteriorate every year, Wannstedt had a good team but no QB so he tried to win with running and defense and that didnt work either in the postseason.

I dont care about just making the championship game, that means nothing if you dont win the Super Bowl, so if you make 10 championship games or 10 Super Bowls and dont win it its all the same thing, Just ask the Vikings or the Bills.

Making the championship game is like if you are Alabama and you win some minor bowl game. Its nice but its not a championship.
 

blueblood70

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Have the Cowboys been an overachiever all these years?

Every year we hear how the Cowboys are suppose to win the Super Bowl and every year they don't

Is it possible they havent been that great of a team all these years, but just a good or above average team?
Maybe not even good but have overachieved in winning the NFC East or making the playoffs when they are just marginal
In my opinion they havent been a truly great team since the 1990's, Since then they've been good but not great

If so, isnt the results of not winning the Super Bowl fairly predictable

Consensus is that we havent had a great owner/or GM for decades
We havent had a great coach since Jimm, Parcells and McCarthy both good but not great in their time as coach
We havent had a great QB since Troy, They've had good QB's Romo(rookie free agent), Dak (4th rd pick)

So why exactly would the fans or media believe this team be a Super Bowl contender every year when in reality they are a good team but not great

They are similiar to the Dolphins of the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, early 2000s
Miami won Super Bowls in the early 1970's, made two more in the 1980's and the rest of the years they were winning team or .500 team but never a great Super Bowl contender even with Marino.

Miami was .500 or better in 32 of 34 seasons, but after 1973 not a serious Super Bowl championship team. Every year they were a good or above average team. 1982 they made the Super Bowl in the strike year with Woodley as QB and in 1984 Marino had a record setting year but not a great team. Shula obviously was a great coach and could maximize his team but couldn't overcome the personnel deficiencies. I recall the media and the fans would expect Miami to win the Super Bowl every year or at least make the SB because of Shula/Marino or Jimmy/Marino or even when Wanstet was there with Ricky Williams at RB and Taylor and Thomas at defense but every year the same results.

Cowboys had the Super Bowl titles in the early to mid 1990's and then they were good in the late 1990's, 2000's, 2010's and 2020's, playoff team, NFC East champions but not a Super Bowl contender.
I'd say you're right your theory is not good you can call it good I'm saying no it's not good at all cause theories and opinions are just that and you know opinions are like you know what we all have one so I'm have to tell you you're all over the place why don't you diagnose and pick apart all 32 teams please let's see if you can come up with the last 33 years about our overachiever team with bad everything according to you and everyone else and show us that there's only two teams that have 3 or more than three Super Bowls since 1989..

that would be KC, NE and DALLAS.. So it's so easy to get back to the Super bowl and win it that somehow you believe that words should be compared to the Miami Dolphins when maybe you ought to compare us as a top six team that actually is underachieving in a way because we're making the playoffs 5 out of the last eight years you don't lock into that and if this team was actually overachieving we be playing a lot harder and having a lot closer wins than the last Green Bay loss in february..

So let's stop trying to pick apart the Cowboys and let's pick apart about 28 other teams with regular GM's and allegedly better coaches and allegedly better quarterbacks who are also not winning Super Bowls I mean there are teams that have no Super Bowl wins and there's some teams that only have one in their entire existence and as long as championships are being mentioned the Dallas Stars the Dallas Mavericks and the overhyped finally getting a win Texas Rangers who by the way it took 52 years to win one they only have 3 championships together like all together all three and people are like acting like our GM and our ownership and all our coaches and quarterbacks have been subpart overrated overachievers what what what about the rest of sports??

It's a matter of fact that Kansas City team that's finally back winning again took 52 years between their Super Bowl wins if I did the math I'd say that's a hell of a lot longer drought than ours So what it shows me is teams go through this and I realize now all you're gonna do is come back with the nonsense well we haven't even got to an NFC championship game let alone a Super Bowl like other teams have I don't care it's about championships Jerry has three it only Kansas City and Dallas have more in the same damn time that Jerry's been an owner why is it the Dallas Cowboys are still top three all time and Super Bowl wins if this drought was somehow as big as people wanna think it is I mean you act like this is some anomaly that's only been happening to the Dallas Cowboys...

It would be nice to get back to an NFC championship game and maybe get to another Super Bowl and for sure win one but stop acting like this is because Jerry won't give up control and he won't hire a GM and he won't get more football people and he won't meddle and maybe it will change no I seen other teams for decades do that very thing change teams James coaches go through 15 draft picks at quarterback it still don't win Super Bowls it's not the magic pill it's not the blueprint the blueprint is has to be a little luck along the way... We are not the only team that doesn't play high risk offseason all in scenarios there's only a couple of teams have done that and they're getting beat by the team that has not had to do that in Kansas City because they have the only elite quarterback in the league right now with one of the elite coaches but yeah they are the anomaly the dynasties like we were in the 90s are an anomaly the rest of the league has to fight and scratch just like we have...​
 

chuck520

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When have we heard they are SB contenders? Maybe a few had said it the past few years. I do not recall it from the Garrett water decade. Nor when MM took over either.
When Romo became QB they were picked to win the Super Bowl for some reason even though he was an overachiever, then were expected to win with Dak/Zeke in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021 2022 then Dak in 2023
I'm not saying I believed it but that was the expectation from the mainstream sports media and fans
Thats why the playoff defeats were so disappointing because of the expectations

2016, 2018 they were definitely overachievers, rookie QB and they go 13-3 how often does that happen? 2018 they barely made the playoffs because of the Cooper trade If not for that they wouldnt have made the playoffs.
When they got to the playoffs the expectations were Super Bowl champions when in reality they werent that great, just good.

otherwise its just a good team that had a good year
 

chuck520

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I suggest you find another team to root for then. You obviously have no hope and have quit.
Why would I stop rooting for them? I'm a fan no matter the results, But if you are only going to build through the draft you are going to have limited results. If I didnt abandon them in 1989 why would I abandon them now?
 

CWR

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Have the Cowboys been an overachiever all these years?

Every year we hear how the Cowboys are suppose to win the Super Bowl and every year they don't

Is it possible they havent been that great of a team all these years, but just a good or above average team?
Maybe not even good but have overachieved in winning the NFC East or making the playoffs when they are just marginal
In my opinion they havent been a truly great team since the 1990's, Since then they've been good but not great

If so, isnt the results of not winning the Super Bowl fairly predictable

Consensus is that we havent had a great owner/or GM for decades
We havent had a great coach since Jimm, Parcells and McCarthy both good but not great in their time as coach
We havent had a great QB since Troy, They've had good QB's Romo(rookie free agent), Dak (4th rd pick)

So why exactly would the fans or media believe this team be a Super Bowl contender every year when in reality they are a good team but not great

They are similiar to the Dolphins of the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, early 2000s
Miami won Super Bowls in the early 1970's, made two more in the 1980's and the rest of the years they were winning team or .500 team but never a great Super Bowl contender even with Marino.

Miami was .500 or better in 32 of 34 seasons, but after 1973 not a serious Super Bowl championship team. Every year they were a good or above average team. 1982 they made the Super Bowl in the strike year with Woodley as QB and in 1984 Marino had a record setting year but not a great team. Shula obviously was a great coach and could maximize his team but couldn't overcome the personnel deficiencies. I recall the media and the fans would expect Miami to win the Super Bowl every year or at least make the SB because of Shula/Marino or Jimmy/Marino or even when Wanstet was there with Ricky Williams at RB and Taylor and Thomas at defense but every year the same results.

Cowboys had the Super Bowl titles in the early to mid 1990's and then they were good in the late 1990's, 2000's, 2010's and 2020's, playoff team, NFC East champions but not a Super Bowl contender.
Parcells was great. He managed to take a previously pathetic roster led by QC to the playoffs. He rebuilt the team during his tenure and then left prematurely.

We would have stood a great chance at winning one if he stayed instead of Wade Phillips and Garrett coming aboard.

Ill admit BP would've blown it on Dware and trading out of Steven Jackson still infuriates me.
 

chuck520

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I'd say you're right your theory is not good you can call it good I'm saying no it's not good at all cause theories and opinions are just that and you know opinions are like you know what we all have one so I'm have to tell you you're all over the place why don't you diagnose and pick apart all 32 teams please let's see if you can come up with the last 33 years about our overachiever team with bad everything according to you and everyone else and show us that there's only two teams that have 3 or more than three Super Bowls since 1989..

that would be KC, NE and DALLAS.. So it's so easy to get back to the Super bowl and win it that somehow you believe that words should be compared to the Miami Dolphins when maybe you ought to compare us as a top six team that actually is underachieving in a way because we're making the playoffs 5 out of the last eight years you don't lock into that and if this team was actually overachieving we be playing a lot harder and having a lot closer wins than the last Green Bay loss in february..

So let's stop trying to pick apart the Cowboys and let's pick apart about 28 other teams with regular GM's and allegedly better coaches and allegedly better quarterbacks who are also not winning Super Bowls I mean there are teams that have no Super Bowl wins and there's some teams that only have one in their entire existence and as long as championships are being mentioned the Dallas Stars the Dallas Mavericks and the overhyped finally getting a win Texas Rangers who by the way it took 52 years to win one they only have 3 championships together like all together all three and people are like acting like our GM and our ownership and all our coaches and quarterbacks have been subpart overrated overachievers what what what about the rest of sports??

It's a matter of fact that Kansas City team that's finally back winning again took 52 years between their Super Bowl wins if I did the math I'd say that's a hell of a lot longer drought than ours So what it shows me is teams go through this and I realize now all you're gonna do is come back with the nonsense well we haven't even got to an NFC championship game let alone a Super Bowl like other teams have I don't care it's about championships Jerry has three it only Kansas City and Dallas have more in the same damn time that Jerry's been an owner why is it the Dallas Cowboys are still top three all time and Super Bowl wins if this drought was somehow as big as people wanna think it is I mean you act like this is some anomaly that's only been happening to the Dallas Cowboys...

It would be nice to get back to an NFC championship game and maybe get to another Super Bowl and for sure win one but stop acting like this is because Jerry won't give up control and he won't hire a GM and he won't get more football people and he won't meddle and maybe it will change no I seen other teams for decades do that very thing change teams James coaches go through 15 draft picks at quarterback it still don't win Super Bowls it's not the magic pill it's not the blueprint the blueprint is has to be a little luck along the way... We are not the only team that doesn't play high risk offseason all in scenarios there's only a couple of teams have done that and they're getting beat by the team that has not had to do that in Kansas City because they have the only elite quarterback in the league right now with one of the elite coaches but yeah they are the anomaly the dynasties like we were in the 90s are an anomaly the rest of the league has to fight and scratch just like we have...​
No, I agree with you and your post supports my theory. For some reason people expect the Cowboys to win the Super Bowl every year. This isnt baseball or NBA where you have no salary cap or sign superstar max contracts that ensure your winning every year. The NFL is a 50/50 proposition with no built in advantages other than great owner/GM, coach or QB, Do the Cowboys have that? Have they had that since the 1990's?

Chiefs have great coach and QB now but their coach could not win the SB until the QB came along. Cowboys are what the Chiefs used to be before Mahomes, a good team that struggled in the playoffs.

Mahomes type players are unicorns so you cant expect to find that every year. Chiefs won the football lottery.
 

chuck520

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Parcells was great. He managed to take a previously pathetic roster led by QC to the playoffs. He rebuilt the team during his tenure and then left prematurely.

We would have stood a great chance at winning one if he stayed instead of Wade Phillips and Garrett coming aboard.

Ill admit BP would've blown it on Dware and trading out of Steven Jackson still infuriates me.
Parcells did a great job turning the franchise around and its been good since but I give him an incomplete because he quit before the team was making its run
 
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Rockport

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Why would I stop rooting for them? I'm a fan no matter the results, But if you are only going to build through the draft you are going to have limited results. If I didnt abandon them in 1989 why would I abandon them now?
But you keep saying there’s no hope so you have abandoned them.
 

CWR

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Why would I stop rooting for them? I'm a fan no matter the results, But if you are only going to build through the draft you are going to have limited results. If I didnt abandon them in 1989 why would I abandon them now?
Hes the same guy who is quitting on the team after Dak leaves. He's already assured us a decade of futility, created a whole post to do so.
 

jazzcat22

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When Romo became QB they were picked to win the Super Bowl for some reason even though he was an overachiever, then were expected to win with Dak/Zeke in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021 2022 then Dak in 2023
I'm not saying I believed it but that was the expectation from the mainstream sports media and fans
Thats why the playoff defeats were so disappointing because of the expectations

2016, 2018 they were definitely overachievers, rookie QB and they go 13-3 how often does that happen? 2018 they barely made the playoffs because of the Cooper trade If not for that they wouldnt have made the playoffs.
When they got to the playoffs the expectations were Super Bowl champions when in reality they werent that great, just good.

otherwise its just a good team that had a good year
Not the way I remember it.
If they were it was from fans only, as well as lip service from Jerry and son, not the media.

Maybe some chatter in 2016, after Zeke was drafted to be paired with Romo. Once he went down, there was no talk of it at all.
most everyone had them with a losing record with a 4th round comp pick at QB.
 
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