This is Feeling a Lot Like 2010

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Coaches can actually be successful in Dallas if they know how to coach. Don't believe me? Take a look at Parcells. You may say that its not all Garrett but the majority of it is. If he only knew how to coach.......

parcells did turn a real big mess around, having Jerry coach the team while his hand was up campo's arse, yet at the end, parcells ended up .500. He got tired of Jerry Jones and he left. so not sure what type of success is that. and garrett has a .500 record under jerry. people point to wins and losses. well, I am sure there is more spin to that people are going to come up with.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Except for the last 2 coaches who actually made the playoffs. One with Quincy Carter, Troy Hambrick and Antonio Bryant as his big 3 on offense.

made the playoffs!!! awesome, now that's become our goal. make the playoffs. yes parcells did make it to playoffs. second year he went 6-10. not sure what to make of that. at the end, he got tired of jerry jones and left. that's the bottom line. no coach, regardless of their past is going to come here and find success. success is making a true run at the superbowl and perhaps playing in it.

 

[Dodger12]

Nice debating skill.

Switzer, Gailey, Campo, Wade, Garrett......

There's no stadium to build, so there's not Parcells needed. Jerry won't be overshadowed ever again.

The next coach has to be sold to the masses and guys like Marinelli and Linehan won't cut it, not after the results of their HC gigs. I mean, Marinelli was 3 and 13, 7 and 9 and 0 and 16. He's going to wear that winless season for a while. Linehan was 8 and 8, 3 and 13 and 0 and 4 before he was fired. No way Jerry is going to look at a coach with a winning percentage of .208 and .306 when .500 isn't good enough.

And while money is king to Jerry, he needs "relevancy" with his football team. Not going to happen with the names you mentioned.

 

[erod]

The next coach has to be sold to the masses and guys like Marinelli and Linehan won't cut it, not after the results of their HC gigs. I mean, Marinelli was 3 and 13, 7 and 9 and 0 and 16. He's going to wear that winless season for a while. Linehan was 8 and 8, 3 and 13 and 0 and 4 before he was fired. No way Jerry is going to look at a coach with a winning percentage of .208 and .306 when .500 isn't good enough.

And while money is king to Jerry, he needs "relevancy" with his football team. Not going to happen with the names you mentioned.

But Jerry doesn't do big names unless he has to build a stadium. If he pays big money, he has to relinquish power, so he opts for cheap nobodies.

I've heard rumors that Jim Harbaugh is next here because he's not happy in San Fran. I just don't see Jerry ponying up for him.

 

[daveferr33]

2010 or 2002. It doesn't matter. To me there are only 4 eras of Cowboys football during JJ's ownership stint:

Jimmy Era
Jerry 1.0 Era
Parcells Era
Jerry 2.0 Era

Only two of those eras had success or any chance of success. Can you guess which two did not?

 

[AsthmaField]

Payton identified Romo, but it was Bill who groomed him and placed him in the lineup.

Yes, but I am talking about bringing in the talent, not coaching it up when it gets here, because I was responding to his "leaving behind a stacked roster". To me that is about bringing in talent to the team. Without S Payton, we never have Romo to be left for Phillips. I'm sure Parcells did a good job of coaching Romo and I would have loved to see what Parcells could have done in '07 instead of Wade Phillips.

Davis maybe, but Kosier is the very anti-thesis of a Jerry pick up. How are you attributing his signing to him?

Well, I understand that. I was talking from a standpoint where any of the free agents that were brought in wouldn't count towards a coach bringing in talent. IMO, it isn't difficult to go get players from other NFL teams. That's just a matter of how much money you have under the cap.

The roster he inherited went 15-33 the 3 years before he came. The roster he left went 13-3 with Wade Phillips coaching it. Should have went further, but Wade Phillips was coaching it. Not sure what your definition of a stacked roster would be.

I'm not saying that it wasn't stacked. I'm saying that a lot of those guys were brought in because of others and not Bill. The big three of course being Ware, TO, and Romo. Anyone could have gone and signed Leonard Davis, etc.

We are debating minutia though. There is no doubt that Parcells was a good coach, that he was a pretty good judge of talent, and that the franchise was better off for him having been here.

 

[Idgit]

Really? Because that's exactly our current situation minus the playoff births and yet folks go to incredible lengths to find excuses for Garrett. I mean, the defense of the current HC with a .500 record by some here is mind-boggling and tells me otherwise. Had Garrett had 2 playoff births to go with his .500 record during this mysterious rebuilding project, he'd be hailed as the next Lombardi by his defenders.

Well, I know. Because that's the point I'm making: good coaches can be in situations where it takes more than good coaching to be successful. People accept that with Parcels.

As to your defending Jason Garrett points, you're exaggerating for dramatic effect, so I'm just going to leave that exaggeration where it lies.

 

[Idgit]

You do understand the word gaff right?

"Something that actually happened, but that we're willing to overlook to try to make this bad argument work"?

 

[Beast_from_East]

It's kinda ironic that the Garrett defenders are crapping on Parcells tenure here saying 0-2 in the playoffs is nothing to be excited about while their guy can't even post a winning record going into year 4.

Just an observation

 

[Idgit]

It's kinda ironic that the Garrett defenders are crapping on Parcells tenure here saying 0-2 in the playoffs is nothing to be excited about while their guy can't even post a winning record going into year 4.

Just an observation

You have to be trying to do it on purpose to have an observation that mischaracterizes the point that completely.

And I think Parcells did a very good job in Dallas. I'm not saying he didn't. I'm saying that a good coaching job doesn't necessarily translated to a good team record on it's own.

 

[Dodger12]

But Jerry doesn't do big names unless he has to build a stadium. If he pays big money, he has to relinquish power, so he opts for cheap nobodies.

I've heard rumors that Jim Harbaugh is next here because he's not happy in San Fran. I just don't see Jerry ponying up for him.

I'm not disagreeing on your thought process as much as the names you mentioned. At the end of the day, Garrett may survive another year here which is the worst case scenario.

 

[daveferr33]

Yes, but I am talking about bringing in the talent, not coaching it up when it gets here, because I was responding to his "leaving behind a stacked roster". To me that is about bringing in talent to the team. Without S Payton, we never have Romo to be left for Phillips. I'm sure Parcells did a good job of coaching Romo and I would have loved to see what Parcells could have done in '07 instead of Wade Phillips.


Well, I understand that. I was talking from a standpoint where any of the free agents that were brought in wouldn't count towards a coach bringing in talent. IMO, it isn't difficult to go get players from other NFL teams. That's just a matter of how much money you have under the cap.


I'm not saying that it wasn't stacked. I'm saying that a lot of those guys were brought in because of others and not Bill. The big three of course being Ware, TO, and Romo. Anyone could have gone and signed Leonard Davis, etc.

We are debating minutia though. There is no doubt that Parcells was a good coach, that he was a pretty good judge of talent, and that the franchise was better off for him having been here.

I never understood this approach--the attempt to slice and dice decision-making during a particular coaching regime in order assign credit or blame.

However the talent made its way onto Bill Parcells rosters is a credit to BP. BP had the good sense to hire Sean Payton, who NY was about to fire after Fassel took over the playcalling duties in 2002. Sean Payton had ties to eastern Illinois so he was aware of Romo. Romo sees an opportunity in Dallas (as opposed to Denver). The cowboys have their second franchise qb of the Jerry Jones ownership era.

Good leaders surround themselves with smart, talented people. BP did that and the roster greatly improved as a result. He had a consistent plan for this organization and all parts of that organization were on the same page (for the most part) in the execution of that plan. We have not seen that in Dallas since he left.

 

[AsthmaField]

I never understood this approach--the attempt to slice and dice decision-making during a particular coaching regime in order assign credit or blame.

However the talent made its way onto Bill Parcells rosters is a credit to BP. BP had the good sense to hire Sean Payton, who NY was about to fire after Fassel took over the playcalling duties in 2002. Sean Payton had ties to eastern Illinois so he was aware of Romo. Romo sees an opportunity in Dallas (as opposed to Denver). The cowboys have their second franchise qb of the Jerry Jones ownership era.

Good leaders surround themselves with smart, talented people. BP did that and the roster greatly improved as a result. He had a consistent plan for this organization and all parts of that organization were on the same page (for the most part) in the execution of that plan. We have not seen that in Dallas since he left.

So TO was Bill's doing?

 

[Gaede]

2010 or 2002. It doesn't matter. To me there are only 4 eras of Cowboys football during JJ's ownership stint:

Jimmy Era
Jerry 1.0 Era
Parcells Era
Jerry 2.0 Era

Only two of those eras had success or any chance of success. Can you guess which two did not?

Post of the year

 

[erod]

I'm not disagreeing on your thought process as much as the names you mentioned. At the end of the day, Garrett may survive another year here which is the worst case scenario.

It's not the worst case if the team gets better as we go. Garrett is underappreciated for rebuilding the roster (it's ongoing) because of his in-game gaffes. I'm watching him closely this year. He'd better get Romo to stop checking out of run plays on the goal line asap.

 

[Doomsay]

"Something that actually happened, but that we're willing to overlook to try to make this bad argument work"?

You have to be trying to do it on purpose to have an observation that mischaracterizes the point that completely.

Kind of like the rust "mischaracterizations", what is your point?

Parcells did every thing but kick the extra point himself on the way to securing a 2nd round playoff spot. This after inheriting one of the worst and dysfunctional teams in the NFL 4 years prior.

 

[Dodger12]

Well, I know. Because that's the point I'm making: good coaches can be in situations where it takes more than good coaching to be successful. People accept that with Parcels.

Sure. I can accept that. If a HC didn't have a franchise QB and was able to go .500 with 2 playoff appearances in 4 years while truly building a roster, I can live with that. I believe that was the original question. On the flip side, .500 with a franchise QB and no playoff appearances is unacceptable.

As to your defending Jason Garrett points, you're exaggerating for dramatic effect, so I'm just going to leave that exaggeration where it lies.

Interesting. I've read JG comparisons to multiple HOF quality coaches. When Garrett's situation (and record) was compared to Landry's early years I don't think I've heard you mention that comparison as being exaggerated for dramatic effect or disagree with it outright? So specifically, I don't think I'm exaggerating in the least. Most folks will accept that if JG just MAKES the playoffs this season, he's staying and I also have no doubt that if we make the playoffs that will be used by some folks here as a barometer for this rebuilding process we're on and claim that we're going in the right direction.

 

[Idgit]

Kind of like the rust "mischaracterizations", what is your point?

Parcells did every thing but kick the extra point himself on the way to securing a 2nd round playoff spot. This after inheriting one of the worst and dysfunctional teams in the NFL 4 years prior.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're getting at with what you've quoted and the 'rust mischaracterizations'.

We lost that SEA playoff game. It doesn't really matter why, but if we're getting down to it, there was also the Terry Glenn fumble on the other end of the field and the officials reversing the first down to Witten on the drive before the fumbled snap. Though, for my part, I thought we went into that playoff game with the worst offensive game plan I remember seeing in many years with a very good passing game going up against a very depleted SEA secondary.

It doesn't matter, though. My point is that 1. sometimes really good coaches are in situations where being a good coach isn't sufficient for building a winning team. And 2. some of you guys give Parcels a pass when it comes to his record as a coach here because you liked the talent he added to the roster while not really fielding a winner.

 

[Dodger12]

It's not the worst case if the team gets better as we go. Garrett is underappreciated for rebuilding the roster (it's ongoing) because of his in-game gaffes. I'm watching him closely this year. He'd better get Romo to stop checking out of run plays on the goal line asap.

I don't think as fans we can argue that Garrett should stay if he gets this team on a roll and we can make some noise in the playoffs.

And I don't appreciate this roster rebuild because he really hasn't done anything out of the norm of today's NFL. Rosters constantly churn and the team that had more turnover and was truly rebuilt was the team that won the SB (Seattle).

 

[Idgit]

Sure. I can accept that. If a HC didn't have a franchise QB and was able to go .500 with 2 playoff appearances in 4 years while truly building a roster, I can live with that. I believe that was the original question. On the flip side, .500 with a franchise QB and no playoff appearances is unacceptable.

On one hand, you have no QB and a top defense. On the other, you have a good QB and a bottom defense. And you have very similar HC records, overall, as a result.

Interesting. I've read JG comparisons to multiple HOF quality coaches. When Garrett's situation (and record) was compared to Landry's early years I don't think I've heard you mention that comparison as being exaggerated for dramatic effect or disagree with it outright? So specifically, I don't think I'm exaggerating in the least. Most folks will accept that if JG just MAKES the playoffs this season, he's staying and I also have no doubt that if we make the playoffs that will be used by some folks here as a barometer for this rebuilding process we're on and claim that we're going in the right direction.

You'll have to link to these for me to address them. For my part, I've seen Garrett's slow start compared to Landry's slow start, which is not the same thing by any stretch as comparing Garrett's coaching ability to Landry's coaching legacy. Of *course* I'd disagree with the idea that Jason Garrett's demonstrated equivalent coaching ability to Tom Landry.

And it doesn't matter if you think you're exaggerating when you're exaggerating. It's a hypothetical, so I can't prove that people wouldn't compare Jason Garrett to Vince Lombardi if Garrett manages to make it to the playoffs, but just because I can't disprove the hypothetical, it doesn't mean it's not a giant exaggeration.