CFZ This team needs to stop taking gambles in the second round

[Acceptablename]

For every 1 or 2 players you find I can list 10 that failed. And this thread isnt about that. Its about being dumb enough to draft them that high in the first place. Taking risks is fine. But in the 2nd round?

Well this is a reply to your post and what Jerry Jones would say. But I’m not disagreeing with you

 

[quickccc]

Actually I was. Probably shouldnt assume. And that WR you keep boasting about is now the number 2 in Philly because he wasnt good enough to be a number 1 in the NFL.

I was screaming for JOK on draft day. Instead we got Joseph. Because he covered a WR once in his life. Great draft plan lol

AJ Brown is no slouch to be a No.2 to .. that's one of the better WRs in the entire NFL that Smith has to play 2nd fiddle.
What's wrong with them trying to get bookend WRs and a 1-2 punch ?

 

[phildadon86]

AJ Brown is no slouch to be a No.2 to .. that's one of the better WRs in the entire NFL that Smith has to play 2nd fiddle.
What's wrong with them trying to get bookend WRs and a 1-2 punch ?

Nothing. But if Smith was such an animal like you are making him out to be. They wouldnt have traded draft capital and invested that money in someone else after drafting Smith. lol. You are making it seem that because Joseph shut down Smith it justifies using a second round pick on him. That would be like using a second round pick on a guy who beat the best OT in college in one game. It is flawed logic when drafting. You look at the entire body of work. And sorry to tell you. Joseph between his off field stuff and him getting kicked out of one school only to start in a few games for Kentucky and having one good game isnt enough to justify a second round pick. Regardless of his physical assets. Not when there are guys that are better, and more steady all around players there to draft.

 

[exciter]

Kelvin Joseph is the latest to prove that taking risks in the second round is a dumb strategy. He was benched in the last game, and that doesn't include his off-season antics.

Sure he may be talented but if the brain doesn't match the talent then what's the point? This is another wasted pick to add to the laundry list of risks taken in the second round by Jerry.

Notable players that were still on the board when Joseph was taken.

Asante Samuel Jr
Walker Little (could help right now with our OL issues)
Rondale Moore
Azeez Ojulari
JOK
Dillon Radunz
Nick Bolton (WOW)
Creed Humphrey
Alim McNeil

Jerry needs to stop it with these project picks in the 2nd. I am all for giving a kid a second chance or taking a risk on a guy who is injured (Damone Clark). However. In the second round you need to draft instant starters. Imagine how this team would look right now with any one of those players on it.

Mind boggling.

If I remember correctly they had a pre arranged trade up if Tyson Campbell was still there! Jacks took him a spot or 2 prior to that trade option opening. They seemed to have soiled their pants afterwards. Campbell, has developed into a really nice corner. If I remember correctly, they didn’t view Samuel as a corner who could play outside!

 

[WillieBeamen]

Facts


Especially when this team’s philosophy is to build through the draft and ignore the first week of free agency. With that model, your 2nd round picks need to be major contributors if you want to be a title contender

 

[phildadon86]

Facts


Especially when this team’s philosophy is to build through the draft and ignore the first week of free agency. With that model, your 2nd round picks need to be major contributors if you want to be a title contender

Exactly.

 

[phildadon86]

If I remember correctly they had a pre arranged trade up if Tyson Campbell was still there! Jacks took him a spot or 2 prior to that trade option opening. They seemed to have soiled their pants afterwards. Campbell, has developed into a really nice corner. If I remember correctly, they didn’t view Samuel as a corner who could play outside!

That would have been nice. I found it funny they said they absolutely had no intention of trading up for Moerhig though. This team doesnt like safeties or DTs. Its nuts.

 

[exciter]

That would have been nice. I found it funny they said they absolutely had no intention of trading up for Moerhig though. This team doesnt like safeties or DTs. Its nuts.

Eh, believe it was near predetermined they were taking a CB with one of those first two picks. They determined Samuel was too small to play corner, can’t imagine how they would view Moerhig being able to hold up. Guessing they had his level of risk just as high, if not higher than Joseph. Joseph’s skillset is spot on, just needed development… not sure anyone could have it imagined his lack of maturity and unwillingness to focus… million dollar talent with a 10 cent brain!

 

[75boyz]

Facts


Especially when this team’s philosophy is to build through the draft and ignore the first week of free agency. With that model, your 2nd round picks need to be major contributors if you want to be a title contender

This.
There ain't much room for error on 3rd rounders either if ya ask me. 4th thru 6th is the gamble/risk/reward rounds imo.

 

[phildadon86]

Eh, believe it was near predetermined they were taking a CB with one of those first two picks. They determined Samuel was too small to play corner, can’t imagine how they would view Moerhig being able to hold up. Guessing they had his level of risk just as high, if not higher than Joseph. Joseph’s skillset is spot on, just needed development… not sure anyone could have it imagined his lack of maturity and unwillingness to focus… million dollar talent with a 10 cent brain!

My friend. He was kicked out of college for being lazy and unmotivated lol. Definitely didnt need to imagine his lack of maturity, it was there for all to see before the draft

 

[Nova]

The 2nd round should be designated for getting impact players or serviceable starters.

Either you take the guy who is hands down the BPA, or you take a prospect from a legit Top Conference or Program in a hard to miss position.

I feel like I could create a matrix based on those requirements and produce better results than the Cowboys have over the last 10 years with 2nd rnd picks

 

[Creeper]

It is a legitimate question to ask, why did the Cowboys draft Kelvin Joseph over Asante Samuel Jr. Samuel was clearly the player more ready to play in the NFL. But some of the other choices people are talking about were never going to happen.

They took Micah Parsons in the 1st round that year so it was unlikely they would draft another LB in the second round. Remember, Parsons was considered a LB coming out of college. I don't think anyone had foreseen the pass rusher Parsons turned out to be. I liked JOK and Bolton in the draft, but the Cowboys already got the best of all of the LBs.

The Cowboys went into this draft looking for a CB. Remember if Surtain or Horne was available Dallas would have taken one of them. 4 other top CBs went before Joseph. Maybe the Cowboys were too focused on a CB. As I said before, Joseph is a legitimate 4.3 guy and the Cowboys needed speed on the defense. Maybe that is why they chose him over Samuel. But look at the draft board. There are a lot of players taken after and before Joseph who are not lighting it up.

In my opinion the Cowboys made worse choices in the 3rd round. They should have moved up and grabbed Milton Williams or Alim McNeill. I like both of them over Osa Odighizuwa. I would have taken Melifonwu over Wright too.

I think Joseph has talent to play in the NFL. He had a set back as a rookie when he got hurt and missed most of camp. Then he had the stupid shooting incident, which shows a lack of maturity and discipline. He is a developmental player who has not been developed, either by his fault or the Cowboys - or maybe both. He is costing $1.7 against the CAP so I think there is reason to give him some time to see him grow up. Remember the Cowboys traded Charvarius Ward away for a scrub offensive lineman and they should be regretting that decision. As long as Joseph is contributing at a high level on special teams I think he is worth keeping around to see if he develops.

Having said that, I also realize I know nothing about this kid's personality of intelligence. The coaches see him every day and know if he works hard, learns from experience, and has any self-discipline. If it is a maturity thing then hopefully he grows up. As long as he runs a 4.3 forty I would show him some patience - within limits, of course.

 

[Rayman70]

We draft very well. THAT SAID, I agree with the 2nd round gambles. WE MUST be better there.

 

[USArmyVet]

Agreed.

I loved Nick Bolton in the draft everyone said he was undersized run stuffer who can't play the pass.
I think he's having a good year.

Asante Samuel talent was also easy to see, I don't think we even had him for a visit

Bolton stats( drafted #58 in 2021; Joseph drafted at #44):

2021: 16 games 112 tackles 1 fumble recovery 3 pass deflections

2022: 14 games 137 tackles 2 sacks 1 forced fumble 2 INT's 2 pass deflections


Dallas missed out on a quality LB by reaching for Joseph.

Oh, and Creed Humphrey was drafted #63 in the 2021 draft and is considered to already be a Top 5 Center.


Dallas could have had both but they always seem to try and be cute in the 2nd round.

 

[quickccc]

Nothing. But if Smith was such an animal like you are making him out to be. They wouldnt have traded draft capital and invested that money in someone else after drafting Smith. lol. You are making it seem that because Joseph shut down Smith it justifies using a second round pick on him. That would be like using a second round pick on a guy who beat the best OT in college in one game. It is flawed logic when drafting. You look at the entire body of work. And sorry to tell you. Joseph between his off field stuff and him getting kicked out of one school only to start in a few games for Kentucky and having one good game isnt enough to justify a second round pick. Regardless of his physical assets. Not when there are guys that are better, and more steady all around players there to draft.

i don't think that's true at all..
That's a " middle ground " move to better the chances to upgrade your team. And AJ Brown is already a proven commodity.

That's an OJ Beckham type move to better upgrade your team with a proven commodity.
You have Lamb, but does that mean you don't try to upgrade the team with a proven player (ala Beckham) - when it's a golden chance to acquire them.?

- I'm not making it seem like anything .... that's likely how the Cowboys placed into evaluating Kelvin Joseph, based off game tape vs Devontae.
The level of quality of competition at the collegiate level.
And BTW, that's how they prefer to evaluate their possible prospects with big school programs with earliest rounds vs small school programs.

- McClay like any other NFL personnel, is gonna have some oops and misses,.. it's the matter of how many hits vs how many misses with the precious early picks.
and then into a player or two in mid rounds and late draft picks.
It's the early rounders (1st to 3rd) that are the prime ones you have hit with, starters or major contributors.- More pluses than minuses.

 

[phildadon86]

It is a legitimate question to ask, why did the Cowboys draft Kelvin Joseph over Asante Samuel Jr. Samuel was clearly the player more ready to play in the NFL. But some of the other choices people are talking about were never going to happen.

They took Micah Parsons in the 1st round that year so it was unlikely they would draft another LB in the second round. Remember, Parsons was considered a LB coming out of college. I don't think anyone had foreseen the pass rusher Parsons turned out to be. I liked JOK and Bolton in the draft, but the Cowboys already got the best of all of the LBs.

The Cowboys went into this draft looking for a CB. Remember if Surtain or Horne was available Dallas would have taken one of them. 4 other top CBs went before Joseph. Maybe the Cowboys were too focused on a CB. As I said before, Joseph is a legitimate 4.3 guy and the Cowboys needed speed on the defense. Maybe that is why they chose him over Samuel. But look at the draft board. There are a lot of players taken after and before Joseph who are not lighting it up.

In my opinion the Cowboys made worse choices in the 3rd round. They should have moved up and grabbed Milton Williams or Alim McNeill. I like both of them over Osa Odighizuwa. I would have taken Melifonwu over Wright too.

I think Joseph has talent to play in the NFL. He had a set back as a rookie when he got hurt and missed most of camp. Then he had the stupid shooting incident, which shows a lack of maturity and discipline. He is a developmental player who has not been developed, either by his fault or the Cowboys - or maybe both. He is costing $1.7 against the CAP so I think there is reason to give him some time to see him grow up. Remember the Cowboys traded Charvarius Ward away for a scrub offensive lineman and they should be regretting that decision. As long as Joseph is contributing at a high level on special teams I think he is worth keeping around to see if he develops.

Having said that, I also realize I know nothing about this kid's personality of intelligence. The coaches see him every day and know if he works hard, learns from experience, and has any self-discipline. If it is a maturity thing then hopefully he grows up. As long as he runs a 4.3 forty I would show him some patience - within limits, of course.

I dont see it. His mind isnt in it. Just like Trysten Hill. They are only not cutting him right now because again they know they messed up and want to prove themselves right. Taco Charlton, Trysten Hill, Kelvin Joseph.

 

[phildadon86]

i don't think that's true at all..
That's a " middle ground " move to better the chances to upgrade your team. And AJ Brown is already a proven commodity.

That's an OJ Beckham type move to better upgrade your team with a proven commodity.
You have Lamb, but does that mean you don't try to upgrade the team with a proven player (ala Beckham) - when it's a golden chance to acquire them.?

- I'm not making it seem like anything .... that's likely how the Cowboys placed into evaluating Kelvin Joseph, based off game tape vs Devontae.
The level of quality of competition at the collegiate level.
And BTW, that's how they prefer to evaluate their possible prospects with big school programs with earliest rounds vs small school programs.

- McClay like any other NFL personnel, is gonna have some oops and misses,.. it's the matter of how many hits vs how many misses with the precious early picks.
and then into a player or two in mid rounds and late draft picks.
It's the early rounders (1st to 3rd) that are the prime ones you have hit with, starters or major contributors.- More pluses than minuses.

If the Cowboys literally drafted Joseph because he had one good game against Smith. We have bigger problems than I thought.

 

[charron]

Kelvin Joseph is the latest to prove that taking risks in the second round is a dumb strategy. He was benched in the last game, and that doesn't include his off-season antics.

Sure he may be talented but if the brain doesn't match the talent then what's the point? This is another wasted pick to add to the laundry list of risks taken in the second round by Jerry.

Notable players that were still on the board when Joseph was taken.

Asante Samuel Jr
Walker Little (could help right now with our OL issues)
Rondale Moore
Azeez Ojulari
JOK
Dillon Radunz
Nick Bolton (WOW)
Creed Humphrey
Alim McNeil

Jerry needs to stop it with these project picks in the 2nd. I am all for giving a kid a second chance or taking a risk on a guy who is injured (Damone Clark). However. In the second round you need to draft instant starters. Imagine how this team would look right now with any one of those players on it.

Mind boggling.

I would say it like this. They need to change their priorities in the draft. Talent and physical attributes are less important than a persons mental make up.

 

[quickccc]

It is a legitimate question to ask, why did the Cowboys draft Kelvin Joseph over Asante Samuel Jr. Samuel was clearly the player more ready to play in the NFL. But some of the other choices people are talking about were never going to happen.

.

From one of my previous posts:

Re: " Reportedly the Cowboys coveted Georgia CB Eric Stokes who went to Green Bay in the 1st round.
Just as they thought Samuels Jr. was more of a Jourdan Lewis nickel back slot guy than an outside guy.
He didn’t have the size-length they prefer in outside CB... "

 

[phildadon86]

I would say it like this. They need to change their priorities in the draft. Talent and physical attributes are less important than a persons mental make up.

Draft guys that love to play football. Parsons for example. Not guys with other interests that have already had him kicked out of a school for.