Thoughts about fixing the run game-looking more to next season

[gimmesix]

I think we have something with Ferguson, Schoonmaker, and the Indiana kid.

Jones?

 

[quickccc]

We have heard that this defense has been built to play with a lead and stop the pass. Problem is, unless you have the greatest show on turf Rams offense, there will be games that the offense does struggle that the defense is going to have to be able to defend both the run and the passing game. Since Dan Quinn has arrived, we have had this discussion about the defense inability to consistently defend the run:

-Personnel is a big part of the issue. Playing with a smaller/quicker front with hybrid LB/Safeties behind them causes mismatches defending the run. Playing this style, you must beat blockers to a spot or get engulfed by blockers. Adding a player like Hankins has helped, but it's not enough.

-Scheme has done this defense no favors. Not only does Quinn like to use those hybrid defenders, but he calls a ton of twists/stunts that open up huge rushing lanes. Yes, they help getting to the QB, but they kill your run defense.

Some ideas how to fix in the future:

-Adding bigger personnel from the defensive line and the linebacker positions. Finding a legitimate mike linebacker, might be the biggest priority need. Lve's career might be over and he was more of a weakside linebacker. Find a true mike linebacker that excels with taking on and shedding blockers.

-Perhaps employing more of a 3-4 front on early downs. The 3-4 alignment was originally devised to do a better job stopping the run. Get big lineman who can occupy blockers and allow your quick players to attack the football.

it’s not like we have not tried an effort to upgrade with " big boy bodies " vs run.

- We did trade for vet Hankins at a high risk/low reward cost, late rd. And he’s played up to that trade.
- We drafted reputably the best run stopping DT prospect in the NFL draft. Jury still out.

- Dlaw has long been known as a top notch run defender.

- Question marks.
- Armstrong has always been a suspect starting run defender at DE, time to move on
- I dunno what to make of Williams who is bigger, faster and more immensely physically talented
than any of our DEs, ..but his game is still not complete and he tends to bring too many dumb flags.
- Fowler is strictly a rotational nickel edge rusher.
- Osa seems to get worn down at season's end. another whose game is too up & down and struggles vs run
at times.

 

[buybuydandavis]

-Perhaps employing more of a 3-4 front on early downs. The 3-4 alignment was originally devised to do a better job stopping the run. Get big lineman who can occupy blockers and allow your quick players to attack the football.

Except our LBs aren't the bigger 3-4 type LBs, or even the 4-3 type LBs, but hybrid LB/S.

Parsons at LB on run downs would help a lot, giving us a legitimately sized LB on run downs, and he would always be a threat to blitz from there anyway.

I think they're trying to go to bigger NTs, but haven't really gotten quality personnel for it, though Mazie is coming along, and should be better next year.

We're made to play from a lead, and can't play from behind. Means a lot more blowouts for both wins and losses.

We would lose a lot more often if teams would just stick to the run against us, but teams always give up on the run too early, playing into our strategy.

 

[GMO415]

We have heard that this defense has been built to play with a lead and stop the pass. Problem is, unless you have the greatest show on turf Rams offense, there will be games that the offense does struggle that the defense is going to have to be able to defend both the run and the passing game. Since Dan Quinn has arrived, we have had this discussion about the defense inability to consistently defend the run:

-Personnel is a big part of the issue. Playing with a smaller/quicker front with hybrid LB/Safeties behind them causes mismatches defending the run. Playing this style, you must beat blockers to a spot or get engulfed by blockers. Adding a player like Hankins has helped, but it's not enough.

-Scheme has done this defense no favors. Not only does Quinn like to use those hybrid defenders, but he calls a ton of twists/stunts that open up huge rushing lanes. Yes, they help getting to the QB, but they kill your run defense.

Some ideas how to fix in the future:

-Adding bigger personnel from the defensive line and the linebacker positions. Finding a legitimate mike linebacker, might be the biggest priority need. Lve's career might be over and he was more of a weakside linebacker. Find a true mike linebacker that excels with taking on and shedding blockers.

-Perhaps employing more of a 3-4 front on early downs. The 3-4 alignment was originally devised to do a better job stopping the run. Get big lineman who can occupy blockers and allow your quick players to attack the football.

We're in a playoff run, plenty of time for this nonsense later.

 

[Cowboyny]

Except our LBs aren't the bigger 3-4 type LBs, or even the 4-3 type LBs, but hybrid LB/S.

Parsons at LB on run downs would help a lot, giving us a legitimately sized LB on run downs, and he would always be a threat to blitz from there anyway.

I think they're trying to go to bigger NTs, but haven't really gotten quality personnel for it, though Mazie is coming along, and should be better next year.

We're made to play from a lead, and can't play from behind. Means a lot more blowouts for both wins and losses.

We would lose a lot more often if teams would just stick to the run against us, but teams always give up on the run too early, playing into our strategy.

Just talking about the early downs, this defense has to be able to play both run/pass as there will be games in which the offense struggles.

 

[Cowboyny]

it’s not like we have not tried an effort to upgrade with " big boy bodies " vs run.

- We did trade for vet Hankins at a high risk/low reward cost, late rd. And he’s played up to that trade.
- We drafted reputably the best run stopping DT prospect in the NFL draft. Jury still out.

- Dlaw has long been known as a top notch run defender.

- Question marks.
- Armstrong has always been a suspect starting run defender at DE, time to move on
- I dunno what to make of Williams who is bigger, faster and more immensely physically talented
than any of our DEs, ..but his game is still not complete and he tends to bring too many dumb flags.
- Fowler is strictly a rotational nickel edge rusher.
- Osa seems to get worn down at season's end. another whose game is too up & down and struggles vs run
at times.

Really believe the good use a big de who can set the edge. Teams run right at Parsons with great success and take advantage of his aggression. When they played the 49ers in the playoffs last year, Quinn had him playing off the ball and they we real good stopping the run until late in the game

 

[Cowboyny]

Don't see CB as a priority, at least not early, since we have Diggs and Bland. We may need a third corner, though, depending on what we do with Lewis and Gilmore. RB is top one or two for me.

What happens if one of the starters goes down? We need another quality corner. Agree, not top of the list though

 

[Cowboyny]

Maybe it’s not been said ..or said enuff ... we have had average LBs ..
Average LB play ...

Instead of going with a Bobby Wagner in FA offseason, that would have cost little $$, we decide to stay and re-sign average injury prone LVE
Will LVE retired? be a cap casualty ..or will club keep door open for a return?

Clark at this point of his 2nd year, is an average LB, imo.
He never makes big plays .. no peanut punch fumbles, no INTs, no sacks, rarely making big stops in the backfield for losses. He’s not a playmaker. Just a decent/serviceable JAG in that Anthony Hitchens. Damien Wilson like string.

The high future hope is Overshown, who may need a full year post ACL injury, I tend to assume strongly, its’ gonna be a McClay like draft at LBs.

Bell could be our backup- he’s not gonna be a safety for Quinn so bulk and develop him as a backup LB for depth.

They need to retool the entire game position and add more talent more size

 

[Majic]

Hire someone who knows how to run a 3-4 scheme.
Move away from the 'Finesse' LB to big thicker LBs' like Bradie James was, who can do a solid job.
Realise you are going to have to pay Micah Parsons big time, so at least build your team around him by moving him to his best position OLB.
Learn from your mistakes, build your defense to peak in the playoffs, not be worn down by December

 

[Gambit]

1. Need LOS dominating DT's. Why? Because that gives you more players elsewhere to shore up leaks.
2. Need good LB's. Not asking for great, just solid guys like Bradie James. At this point, I'm not sure we have a starting quality LB on the roster. Maybe Overshown. Desperately need improvement.

Want to succeed in the playoffs, first stop the run. That has been our achillees heel forever. At least we tried w/ Mazi, but that isn't looking so good right now. Maybe he'll come around.

Mazi looked decent vs Bills, was highest rated DL per off. 2 pressures one sack.

He always needed time to learn nuances of playing DT in NFL.

 

[Typhus]

Well as much as I want to appreciate your post and don't have time to fully get involved with this conversation that would be Dan Quinn issue... Guys want him around here help they're wanting to force Mike McCarthy out make Dan Quinn the head coach look this is his defenses this is what you have to live with this is how he built the defense and if it was a true blueprint and every team could do it then why haven't they done it this is what people are worried about yeah couple games a year we have a problem stopping the run but he built his team for teams that are more modern offenses and as much as we need to fix it I think last week it's kind of hard to judge this team when a bunch of them had the stomach flu they just played two tough games in a row against Seattle and Eagles they had injuries before the game and during the game they had a bunch of things snowball with penalties really oddball game and you lose something like this..

But if you'd like a tougher team built to stop the run you probably could have to change defensive coordinators and completely switch your philosophy.. He doesn't use the nose tackles in a two or three linebacker set very often with traditional linebackers we have them on our team Clark and Evans are big traditional middle linebackers but they probably are only on the field together 50% of the time as well as nose tackles they like to run this type of defense....

So I don't think things are gonna change I mean I am with you on the fact that I think that should be a priority in the first round if there is a guy like Fred Warner or even Bobby Wagner a really good downhill linebacker a true middle linebacker that also has range you gotta go get him... But I don't know if that's gonna fix everything because Dan Quinn seems like he's OK with calling a defense like this and as long as his players are making tackles and giving maximum effort they can stop the run enough..

I mean if you go back and look at the 49ers game in the playoffs they did at least keep a handle on Christian McCaffrey in that run game the game was close you know I think this is more about maximum effort being healthy gang tackling I I just don't think they had the energy for it Sunday against the bills but who knows

You have plenty of time, otherwise you wouldn't spend so much time posting...lol
Just BYBs

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

You could add 20 LBs to every player on defense and it would not have made a lick of difference against Buffalo

 

[darthseinfeld]

We have heard that this defense has been built to play with a lead and stop the pass. Problem is, unless you have the greatest show on turf Rams offense, there will be games that the offense does struggle that the defense is going to have to be able to defend both the run and the passing game. Since Dan Quinn has arrived, we have had this discussion about the defense inability to consistently defend the run:

-Personnel is a big part of the issue. Playing with a smaller/quicker front with hybrid LB/Safeties behind them causes mismatches defending the run. Playing this style, you must beat blockers to a spot or get engulfed by blockers. Adding a player like Hankins has helped, but it's not enough.

-Scheme has done this defense no favors. Not only does Quinn like to use those hybrid defenders, but he calls a ton of twists/stunts that open up huge rushing lanes. Yes, they help getting to the QB, but they kill your run defense.

Some ideas how to fix in the future:

-Adding bigger personnel from the defensive line and the linebacker positions. Finding a legitimate mike linebacker, might be the biggest priority need. Lve's career might be over and he was more of a weakside linebacker. Find a true mike linebacker that excels with taking on and shedding blockers.

-Perhaps employing more of a 3-4 front on early downs. The 3-4 alignment was originally devised to do a better job stopping the run. Get big lineman who can occupy blockers and allow your quick players to attack the football.

Overshown will help next year, but I dont think he is a Mike. He is really a bigger version of our hybrid S/LB. I think you could see another LB in the top 90.

Unfortunately Golston has been a bust against the run. I can see them going DE in the first, and with Armstrong and Lawrence likely coming off the books the next two year, I can see them targeting a similar 6/7 gap player. This draft lines up well with that with Tuimoloau, Trice snd Landon Jackson possibly available our 1st

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Biaz is the weaklink and struggles against power. There is a reason why he remains unsigned.

So you don't think we will even make him an offer........just let him walk?

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Hire someone who knows how to run a 3-4 scheme.
Move away from the 'Finesse' LB to big thicker LBs' like Bradie James was, who can do a solid job.
Realise you are going to have to pay Micah Parsons big time, so at least build your team around him by moving him to his best position OLB.
Learn from your mistakes, build your defense to peak in the playoffs, not be worn down by December

It's the defensive scheme MM used most of his tenure with the Packers. Just a guess but if he signs an extension and Quinn leaves for an HC job I would not be surprised to see us move to the 3-4.

 

[Majic]

It's the defensive scheme MM used most of his tenure with the Packers. Just a guess but if he signs an extension and Quinn leaves for an HC job I would not be surprised to see us move to the 3-4.

Hope so

 

[JeffInDC]

Here's a name for you all. Jeremiah Trotter Jr.
Yup, that Jeremiah Trotter. His son is coming out and is a middle line backer around 240 ish pounds and same attitude as his dad.
Expected to go late first/early second, so would take a big commitment. But talk about a attitude adjustment here !
Overshois an Olber. We need a thumper with an attitude - like this guy .....

He is a Nick Bolton clone…LOVE THIS PLAYER!!!!! A MLB with ability and, more importantly, INSTINCTS!!!!!

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Just talking about the early downs, this defense has to be able to play both run/pass as there will be games in which the offense struggles.

Good offenses throw on first down. Loading up against the run on first down is suicide for defenses against a good offense.

If not for the penalties/calls, the defense was fine in the first half.

 

[JeffInDC]

On the current roster, there are players that have the build to switch to the D I personally would prefer - the 3-4. Micah was created in a lab to be a 3-4 OLB. He was NOT built to be a full time DE. Then you have the following:

NT/IDL - Hank, Mazi, Gallimore (short arms prevent outside play)
DT/5T - Osa (because of his absurd arm length), Golston, Fehoko
Edge/OLB - Micah, DA, Williams, Fowler

DLaw could actually play either 5T or OLB because of play strength and run-stopping ability. What I would like them to add in the draft is another PURE NT like Stackhouse from GA or Jackson from Texas A&M. While I would LOVE Sweat from Texas, I can’t imagine them drafting another NT in Round 1 back to back years - and I fully believe some team is gonna draft Sweat in Round 1 after his play this year. Just my $.02

 

[JeffInDC]

Mazi does not seem that big. Supposedly he plays more 3tech than 1.

I think the plan for Mazi all along was to help him develop the athletic traits that Quinn was so enamored with. I’ve heard quite a few folks in the Cowboys Media Family (including Broaddus, Big Nate, Stanback) perfectly sum up Mazi this year - when he gets off the snap quickly, he seems to consistently win those battles and push guys back into the backfield. It’s the times when he’s late off the snap where he gets whooped…the issue going forward is getting the Win Ratio for him up to like 80/20 vs. what seems to be 40/60 right now. That’s why drafting another PURE NT would be beneficial. Just my $.02