TO Blames Garrett

CATCH17

CATCH17

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CowboysFaninHouston said:
again, not dismissing garret issues, separate discussion. but I could give a hoot what TO has to say and given how he talked and acted himself out of three (or is it 4) different places, I take his word with a grain of salt with much less credibility....
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And again.. Even if you think TO is a bad source of information he's still right.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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CATCH17 said:
I don’t need anyone to tell me we have a bland and basic offense that pigeon holes players, and plays into our tendencies.

I know enough about football that it’s isn’t even a question for me and that’s why I’ve been saying it since way back when TO was here.
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is this the same offense that helped us go 13-3 last year? was top 5? that bland offense? same offense that was missing two of its top 3 players during this season and still ended up #14 and was top 5 in the league before missing those players....that offense? not sure what your goal is here to have an exciting offense or score points?
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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CATCH17 said:
And again.. Even if you think TO is a bad source of information he's still right.
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TO is TO and I don't care about anything he has to say. he is worthless..but like I said and you can deny it as much as you want, if hitler says garrett is bad, you would jump on his bandwagon...
 
CATCH17

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CowboysFaninHouston said:
is this the same offense that helped us go 13-3 last year? was top 5? that bland offense? same offense that was missing two of its top 3 players during this season and still ended up #14 and was top 5 in the league before missing those players....that offense? not sure what your goal is here to have an exciting offense or score points?
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Yep.. That bland offense.

WE imposed our will on teams and had new players that didn't have tendencies.

I don't deny the Cowboys talent. I think it's very good and even a coach like Garrett who has no business coaching can get productive results by offering nothing schematically.

That's the benefit of a stud OL and run game. It can eliminate a lot of the thinking but can you just run over teams consistently at the highest level of football in the salary cap era? So far we haven't.

My goal is to have players schemed open in the passing game and not let other professional athletes know exactly what we are doing in hopes that we just out-athlete the other team.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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TheDude said:
Not to rehash a ton of stuff, but what is the tangible strengths that is providing a competitive advantage?
- He was hired as an OC as a genius in making (mostly due to him having a degree from Princeton), not from any proof of coaching ability
- The system he installed is not exactly groundbreaking nor contain many new wrinkles that have been employed for the last 10 years.
- His situational awareness and usage of TO in key games has been ridiculous (think Az game when he left a TO on the field, Baltimore, etc)
- For all his presidential aura and genius, he somehow could not get Dallas to retool an offensive line until 2011 (Tyron) and continued running Proctor and Costa out there as "RKGs"
- He has failed for up to 10 years to have any real defense or scheme that has preserved games.
- He lobbied for Brad Johnson, which almost single handedly torpedoed the 2008 season

I just dont think handling the media and working with Jerry is really enough in 10 year process to lay a strong foundation.
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although I have in the past criticized garrett and still do, I am not a blind hater. the list you provided above has tons of holes.

- he wasn't hired as an OC genius, that's fans like you labeling it.
- the system is not ground breaking, its the similar system that norv turner ran in dallas, in SD, in Minn and other places very successfully. same system that as OC was top 10, top 2 and 3 twice in total offense and scoring
- he couldn't get the team to retool the OL? he was an OC under wade. I am sure he had input, but probably got over ridden by Wade, et. al. as soon as he became HC, he did retool, first time ever, in history of cowboys drafting an OL in the first round, and much less top 10. followed by two more first round picks. so you want to tell me Wade had nothing to do with it at the time? come on...seriously!!!
- I agree, that we have neglected the defense, but then again, you just accused him of neglecting the OL. so which one? offense retooling? or defense? as you might have noticed, after retooling OL, we are now focused on retooling defense.
- I agree on brad Johnson. that was a huge miss.

with that said, I think garrett has run its course, he has elevated the team as far is it can go, time for another HC. I don't disagree with that assessment. but
 
Corso

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LocimusPrime said:
To would destroy Garrett in a fist fight. In the old days, the winner of the fight was deemed to be the one telling the truth - and had God on his side.

Man....the good ole days
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This is why I have big friends. Just in case such a conflagration should pop up and I'm in the middle of it.
Which happens more often when I open my mouth in public...

Strange. Good thing God's been on my side...
 
LocimusPrime

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Corso said:
This is why I have big friends. Just in case such a conflagration should pop up and I'm in the middle of it.
Which happens more often when I open my mouth in public...

Strange. Good thing God's been on my side...
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Yes you have a champion to fight in your stead :clap:
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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CATCH17 said:
Yep.. That bland offense.

WE imposed our will on teams and had new players that didn't have tendencies.

I don't deny the Cowboys talent. I think it's very good and even a coach like Garrett who has no business coaching can get productive results by offering nothing schematically.

That's the benefit of a stud OL and run game. It can eliminate a lot of the thinking but can you just run over teams consistently at the highest level of football in the salary cap era? So far we haven't.

My goal is to have players schemed open in the passing game and not let other professional athletes know exactly what we are doing in hopes that we just out-athlete the other team.
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I don't disagree, I like to see our passing schemes a little more creative. I think part of the problem is personnel. Beasley is limited. same size as amendola, but not quite the talent. I absolutely do not like Williams. he is definition of a JAG and worse. because of him, teams find an easy way to take out Beasley and Dez. they are daring us to beat them with Williams and butler. we need to upgrade that unit this year. also witten, as much as I like him is done. he used to demand a lot of attention and now average LBs and safties take him out of the game.
 
cwbyfn88

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Wait Garretts ran TO out of town? Folks over on the old forums claimed it was room who did... lol
 
TheDude

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CowboysFaninHouston said:
although I have in the past criticized garrett and still do, I am not a blind hater. the list you provided above has tons of holes.

- he wasn't hired as an OC genius, that's fans like you labeling it.
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Wasn't me labeling it
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/25/AR2007012501663_pf.html
"Jason is someone who is held in high regard as a bright offensive mind throughout the NFL," Jones said. "We are grateful to the Dolphins for granting the Cowboys permission to explore this opportunity. Jason will now proceed further in our head coaching search as an in-house candidate."
- the system is not ground breaking, its the similar system that norv turner ran in dallas, in SD, in Minn and other places very successfully. same system that as OC was top 10, top 2 and 3 twice in total offense and scoring
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So you agree there isnt much new. Like Ed Reed, Ray Lewis. as for stats, go back to 2012 where it took until week 16 to score more than 10 points in the first half of any game. Another 8-8 year. All of 2TE sets that were run to no avail until 2014, (can check sturm out for those). then you get to any game where Romo didnt play and the same game plan is rolled out. Adn lets face it, bright offensive mind didnt have great offenses until he was stripped of play calling

- he couldn't get the team to retool the OL? he was an OC under wade. I am sure he had input, but probably got over ridden by Wade, et. al. as soon as he became HC, he did retool, first time ever, in history of cowboys drafting an OL in the first round, and much less top 10. followed by two more first round picks. so you want to tell me Wade had nothing to do with it at the time? come on...seriously!!!
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I would think someone who "could be president" would have skills to "manage up" and influence the boss - hell 2012 was the "Rob Ryan draft and offseason" (he got his CBs) so apparently coordinators were heard. But if your argument is Wade is more of a speedbump than Garrett was to having assts heard, well maybe you are on to something
- I agree, that we have neglected the defense, but then again, you just accused him of neglecting the OL. so which one? offense retooling? or defense? as you might have noticed, after retooling OL, we are now focused on retooling defense.
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News flash, you dont have 8 years retool teams. Windows are about 4 years unless you have an elite QB or a really good coach. They replaced all the secondary, and may have to then replace all the receivers. Also, he has no desire to ever rest Witten for anyone who has a 4 handle speed or a >5" vertical

- I agree on brad Johnson. that was a huge miss.
with that said, I think garrett has run its course, he has elevated the team as far is it can go, time for another HC. I don't disagree with that assessment. but
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And even with all that, I still cant find anyone who can give one example of what competitive advantage he offers on game day or practice week.

It was a nepotistic hire that made Jerry comfortable and really made Jason comfortable because all of his family has ties. People who really dont fear repercussions or understand the NFL is Not for Long dont have an urgency. It has shown
 
TheDude

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CATCH17 said:
Yep.. That bland offense.

WE imposed our will on teams and had new players that didn't have tendencies.

I don't deny the Cowboys talent. I think it's very good and even a coach like Garrett who has no business coaching can get productive results by offering nothing schematically.

That's the benefit of a stud OL and run game. It can eliminate a lot of the thinking but can you just run over teams consistently at the highest level of football in the salary cap era? So far we haven't.

My goal is to have players schemed open in the passing game and not let other professional athletes know exactly what we are doing in hopes that we just out-athlete the other team.
Click to expand...
This is really a key point. You can go back to "winning seasons" and there has been a brand new wrinkle that teams couldnt prepare for. 2014 was an 1800 yard rusher and an oline that went run first. You had Romo who could read defenses and take advantage. Romo gone and its over in 2015. Last year was 2 rookies and a mobile QB that teams never saw in Dallas. Teams figured it out in the offseason. NYG game was the blueprint, but their offense was inept with no talent. Denver was the blueprint. It ended up a year where when you have the better talent, you crush bad teams and lose to teams with equal or better talent/scheme.
 
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