Tomlin vs Switzer

[ScipioCowboy]

There is one great big difference in ToMlin and Barry Switzer.

Two years from now if he gets fired, whether he wins the Super Bowl or not, someone will give him another coaching job.

Barry Switzer never deserved an NFL job. He was never a candidate until a night of drinking caused someone to open his festering gob, and was never a candidate again. No one would have hired Barry Switzer.

Though he won a Super Bowl he never even got considered for any other NFL job. A Super Bowl winning coach. Zero speculation about another job. Ever...

Guy was a total freaking idiot. The worst HC hire ever, and I mean worse than Campo. He just happened to have a team with talent. Dumb luck.

Agreed.

Switzer was a nice, likable fellow, I'm sure. But he had no idea how run an NFL team. His drafting was awful, and our depth and talent based evaporated soon after his hiring.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

you are have every right to not repect him.

however, I see FAR FAR more of the blame on Jerry.. he picked the talent decided in FA who to get or not...

Barry was a bus driver for Jerry... that said it was the biggest no win situation even in coaching history in any major sport

Then you've answered your own question. Switzer was a puppet. Tomlin isn't.

 

[Alexander]

I cannot believe the disrespect people are giving Tomlin.

I am equally amazed at how overrated he is as well. Everyone wants the "next Tomlin".

Other than inherit one of the most consistent NFL franchises with management capable of drafting solid personnel and a built-in Hall-of-Fame Defensive Coordinator with a proven scheme, I do not see how he has done this amazing job. The smartest thing he has done is not to tinker with what is not broken.

Take Tomlin out of that environment, I do not think he is at the top tier of NFL coaches like he is being pushed towards. In fact, as a gameday coach, some of his blunders on 4th down and time management gaffes are very Switzer-like.

 

[Alexander]

Agreed.

Switzer was a nice, likable fellow, I'm sure. But he had no idea how run an NFL team. His drafting was awful, and our depth and talent based evaporated soon after his hiring.

Switzer's drafting?

No.

Jerry Jones was the individual responsible for Switzer's cabinets being bare within four years.

Convict Coach Switzer for the crimes he is guilty of.

 

[Hostile]

Switzer's drafting?

No.

Jerry Jones was the individual responsible for Switzer's cabinets being bare within four years.

Convict Coach Switzer for the crimes he is guilty of.

For instance diddling his Scouting Director's wife.

 

[RainMan]

you are have every right to not repect him.

however, I see FAR FAR more of the blame on Jerry.. he picked the talent decided in FA who to get or not...

Barry was a bus driver for Jerry... that said it was the biggest no win situation even in coaching history in any major sport

I can agree with this. It's not Barry's fault he was offered the job. As unqualified as he was -- and as lucky as he was to win a Super Bowl -- it was an absolutely atrocious hire on Jerry's part.

 

[Bach]

There is one great big difference in ToMlin and Barry Switzer.

Two years from now if he gets fired, whether he wins the Super Bowl or not, someone will give him another coaching job.

Barry Switzer never deserved an NFL job. He was never a candidate until a night of drinking caused someone to open his festering gob, and was never a candidate again. No one would have hired Barry Switzer.

Though he won a Super Bowl he never even got considered for any other NFL job. A Super Bowl winning coach. Zero speculation about another job. Ever...

Guy was a total freaking idiot. The worst HC hire ever, and I mean worse than Campo. He just happened to have a team with talent. Dumb luck.

 

[Hostile]

You wanted to faint first huh?

:wink2:

 

[Bach]

You wanted to faint first huh?

:wink2:

I admit, I did do a double take.

 

[Hostile]

I admit, I did do a double take.

Been trying to tell you I judge things different once Parcells was hired. Maybe you'll begin to believe me.

Parcells fell short of my expectations, but it was a professional move that has the potential to bring this ship back.

They have to jerk the reins. I don't deny that. Never have.

I'd like for Wade to succeed, because he's a Texan, but I'm as skeptical as anyone. That's why I want Shanahan or Garrett. I'm willing to move on.

But we both agree that the talent acquired since 2003 is better. That's why the GM has a "pass" from me right now. I want a GM who is doing that, and he is.

The coaching staff and players, I'm not happy with. They aren't getting it done yet.

 

[Stash]

I am equally amazed at how overrated he is as well. Everyone wants the "next Tomlin".

Other than inherit one of the most consistent NFL franchises with management capable of drafting solid personnel and a built-in Hall-of-Fame Defensive Coordinator with a proven scheme, I do not see how he has done this amazing job. The smartest thing he has done is not to tinker with what is not broken.

Take Tomlin out of that environment, I do not think he is at the top tier of NFL coaches like he is being pushed towards. In fact, as a gameday coach, some of his blunders on 4th down and time management gaffes are very Switzer-like.

Well said!

One way to compare Tomlin to Switzer is that their teams win in spite of them, not because of them.

Anyone care to list Tomlin's gaffes which could have seriously cost his team this year?

Maybe we should ask Big Ben?

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Switzer's drafting?

No.

Jerry Jones was the individual responsible for Switzer's cabinets being bare within four years.

Convict Coach Switzer for the crimes he is guilty of.

In my opinion, Switzer is partially guilty for the drafts under his watch. Jones takes the largest portion of blame, but Switzer is culpable for his poor talent evaluation skills and his seeming unwillingness to fight Jones on his horrendous draft picks. Because of Parcells' willingness to fight Jones, the Cowboys were able to improve their pool of talent.

 

[Bach]

Been trying to tell you I judge things different once Parcells was hired. Maybe you'll begin to believe me.

Parcells fell short of my expectations, but it was a professional move that has the potential to bring this ship back.

They have to jerk the reins. I don't deny that. Never have.

I'd like for Wade to succeed, because he's a Texan, but I'm as skeptical as anyone. That's why I want Shanahan or Garrett. I'm willing to move on.

But we both agree that the talent acquired since 2003 is better. That's why the GM has a "pass" from me right now. I want a GM who is doing that, and he is.

The coaching staff and players, I'm not happy with. They aren't getting it done yet.

I know he was desperate when he gave up considerable control and brought in Parcells. But I also know that the last two years after BP left, Jerry's gone back to doing much of the same things he did prior to Parcells' arrival.

The drafting has been much better the last few years, but the Wade hire and the way JJ's taken control of the staff and the environment around the Ranch is much the same as during the Switzer / Gailey / Campo years. Unless that changes the talent alone won't get it done.

 

[Stash]

In my opinion, Switzer is partially guilty for the drafts under his watch. Jones takes the largest portion of blame, but Switzer is culpable for his poor talent evaluation skills and his seeming unwillingness to fight Jones on his horrendous draft picks. Because of Parcells' willingness to fight Jones, the Cowboys were able to improve their pool of talent.

Kinda makes you scared at what's gonna happen with Coach Cupcake in the War Room, huh?

If he's allowed in I mean.

 

[Hostile]

I know he was desperate when he gave up considerable control and brought in Parcells. But I also know that the last two years after BP left, Jerry's gone back to doing much of the same things he did prior to Parcells' arrival.

The drafting has been much better the last few years, but the Wade hire and the way JJ's taken control of the staff and the environment around the Ranch is much the same as during the Switzer / Gailey / Campo years. Unless that changes the talent alone won't get it done.

I simply don't have that kind of crystal ball. Thus I am not a soothsayer, nor a prophet of doom.

 

[Stash]

I know he was desperate when he gave up considerable control and brought in Parcells. But I also know that the last two years after BP left, Jerry's gone back to doing much of the same things he did prior to Parcells' arrival.

The drafting has been much better the last few years, but the Wade hire and the way JJ's taken control of the staff and the environment around the Ranch is much the same as during the Switzer / Gailey / Campo years. Unless that changes the talent alone won't get it done.

I tend to agree.

I think we're looking at a Campo-type year for 2009.

Hopefully it will only take 1 of those years for Jerry to wise up this time.

 

[Bach]

I simply don't have that kind of crystal ball. Thus I am not a soothsayer, nor a prophet of doom.

I don't have a crystal ball either. But I don't need one to see what's already happened and the way things are being run. Now I agree it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the talent can overcome the circus atmosphere and dysfunctional coaching situation and atmosphere. But you know what they say about doing things the same old way and expecting different results.

 

[Hostile]

I don't have a crystal ball either. But I don't need one to see what's already happened and the way things are being run. Now I agree it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the talent can overcome the circus atmosphere and dysfunctional coaching situation and atmosphere. But you know what they say about doing things the same old way and expecting different results.

I do.

What do you know, we reached middle ground on this. I think.

 

[Kilyin]

For instance diddling his Scouting Director's wife.

And ironically enough, according to this article, Lacewell sealed the deal in hiring Switzer as head coach...

While Jones headed off to make millions in oil and gas, Switzer and Johnson moved through the college coaching ranks, often recommending each other for jobs. From 1970 to '72 Switzer and Johnson served at Oklahoma under Fairbanks, along with yet another Arkansan, Larry Lacewell, who is currently the Cowboys' director of college scouting. Today, Johnson's former wife, Linda Kay, and Switzer's ex, Kay, remain close friends, but not all the personal and professional entanglements of the Arkansas clan have been so pleasant. Lacewell left Oklahoma in 1977 after his wife, Criss, became involved with Switzer. "I won't skirt the issue; I got mad and left," says Lacewell. "But it was blown out of proportion; it wasn't what people thought." After a separation, the Lacewells reconciled, but Lacewell told one Cowboy that the idea of working with Switzer again had put a knot in his stomach.

Yet when Jones asked for Lacewell's opinion of Switzer, Lacewell's recommendation was instrumental in bringing Switzer to Dallas. "I don't think he ever set out to be a bad guy," Lacewell says. "He doesn't get up saying, 'I'm going to do something bad today.' He falls into a trap and doesn't know how to get out of it. Maybe he should have handled a lot of things differently, but he has handled the most important thing superbly, and that's his relationships with his players."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005068/2/index.htm

 

[Bach]

I tend to agree.

I think we're looking at a Campo-type year for 2009.

Hopefully it will only take 1 of those years for Jerry to wise up this time.

It's possible we totally collapse if they pick up where they left off. Wade totally lost the team at the end. The players quit and even overruled him on the field. If they don't rein the players in then this thing has a chance to really blow up.

But I do think we have enough talent and if they stay healthy, on paper I could see them winning 10-11 games. But it's hard to discount the lack of chemistry problem and atmosphere. I really don't see any reason for having Wade back and think he'll have a tough time regaining control of the team.