Trade Dak?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Wait, you're arguing that CHIP KELLY, of all people, was NOT running a college gimmick offense that was a 1 season wonder at the NFL level?

The lengths and blindness some will go to defend their agenda is amazing.

 

[sean10mm]

If people want to argue that Dak could spontaneously blow out both knees and have no NFL career, or magically lose 100 IQ points out of nowhere, then fine I guess. Anything could happen,sure - but that's also true of any NFL player at any point in their career.

The thing he's doing that RG3, Kaepernick, Tebow and even Foles weren't really doing is actually running a legit offensive scheme. He's actually developing the mental side at a rate nobody has seen in ages. It's a huge deal, but it also doesn't show up on the stat lines or in highlight reels, so a lot of people simply can't see it for what it is.

 

[DFWJC]

Pretty sure the OP is just messing some of yall

 

[65fastback2plus2]

If people want to argue that Dak could spontaneously blow out both knees and have no NFL career, or magically lose 100 IQ points out of nowhere, then fine I guess. Anything could happen,sure - but that's also true of any NFL player at any point in their career.

The thing he's doing that RG3, Kaepernick, Tebow and even Foles weren't really doing is actually running a legit offensive scheme. He's actually developing the mental side at a rate nobody has seen in ages. It's a huge deal, but it also doesn't show up on the stat lines or in highlight reels, so a lot of people simply can't see it for what it is.

Theres more than that though.

Derek Anderson
Don Majkowski
Steve Beuerlein
Scott Mitchell
Mark Rypien
Tommy Maddox
Rick Mirer
Frank Reich (QB for "The greatest comeback ever" game)
Jay Fielder
Rob Johnson
Elvis Grbac

 

[mattjames2010]

Please quit being silly and trying to compare Dak to RGIII.
Other than being black and being rookie QBs they have nothing else in common.
They ran completely different offenses and RGIII got injured and was never the same.

RGIII also never had the talent Dak has around him. RGIII was never able to stand in the pocket, order a pizza, give an interview, send a prayer up to his mom, use the bathroom, and then make a throw.

When our line has broke down in games, Dak's rating drops below 60. The two Giants games and the Eagles game are similar to what nearly every rookie QB has to face on a weekly basis.

Anyone not worried about a sophomore slump is kidding themselves. It's a legit concern. I don't want a QB being made better by his surroundings, I want a QB making those around him better.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

RGIII also never had the talent Dak has around him. RGIII was never able to stand in the pocket, order a pizza, give an interview, send a prayer up to his mom, use the bathroom, and then make a throw.

When our line has broke down in games, Dak's rating drops below 60. The two Giants games and the Eagles game are similar to what nearly every rookie QB has to face on a weekly basis.

Anyone not worried about a sophomore slump is kidding themselves. It's a legit concern. I don't want a QB being made better by his surroundings, I want a QB making those around him better.

RGIII did not need a pass blocking line because he was a running QB along with another Dynamic Rookie RB in Morris and that was how their offense worked so well. THEY ran the ball very well together. That was the type of offense they used ad they did it very well...so well that he RGIII won Rookie of the Year award even though some thought Morris should have. But it all went down hill when he got hurt and after that they tried to turn him into a pocket passing QB and he was not suited for it.

And Frankly we seen how crappy the other QBs were last year with the majority of the same offense we have now minus Zeke and we seen Butt Fumble Sanchez look like a lost fool out there as well.

This is not just our Offense and no talent by Dak.

This is Dak being talented as well.

Dak is not the normal QB...his stats prove so.

This is a combo of a good QB and and Good offense working in tandem together.

And frankly the idea of going so far to bust on a QB to say you don't want a good surrounding making a QB better is silly. You should always want a team that makes each other better not just one sided...unless you have some silly agenda.

Hey I want a crappy offense but a great QB to make them better...stupid. You want both to be well and work in tandem. That is if you don't have an agenda.

 

[sean10mm]

Friendly reminder: Every successful QB was on a good team. If Dak was on a garbage team he'd be doing worse, but so what? That's true of every QB ever. A bunch of QBs played on an otherwise good 2015 Cowboys roster and the result was hot garbage. Not just a little worse, but total trash. Aikman won 3 championships on good teams, and was beaten into retirement when the team became bad. None of this is very interesting or explains anything because it's universal.

Let me turn this argument around - what about Dak's game isn't sustainable? What about it is built on BS, fakery, or what have you? What is the evidence that Dak is a fraud? The fact that he had a bad game once? The fact that he went 13-2 as a starter instead of 15-0? What FACTS support the idea that Dak, specifically, is a flash in the pan?

People sometimes want to make this about Zeke carrying the team, which is more understandable because Zeke owns and looks amazing. I'll be the first to say that he was a slam-dunk pick. But what did a decade of Adrian Peterson give the Vikings? Not a darn thing, except for when they had 1 good season of Favre.

 

[mattjames2010]

RGIII did not need a pass blocking line because he was a running QB along with another Dynamic Rookie RB in Morris and that was how their offense worked so well. THEY ran the ball very well together. That was the type of offense they used ad they did it very well...so well that he RGIII won Rookie of the Year award even though some thought Morris should have. But it all went down hill when he got hurt and after that they tried to turn him into a pocket passing QB and he was not suited for it.

And Frankly we seen how crappy the other QBs were last year with the majority of the same offense we have now minus Zeke and we seen Butt Fumble Sanchez look like a lost fool out there as well.

This is not just our Offense and no talent by Dak.

This is Dak being talented as well.

Dak is not the normal QB...his stats prove so.

This is a combo of a good QB and and Good offense working in tandem together.

And frankly the idea of going so far to bust on a QB to say you don't want a good surrounding making a QB better is silly. You should always want a team that makes each other better not just one sided...unless you have some silly agenda.

Hey I want a crappy offense but a great QB to make them better...stupid. You want both to be well and work in tandem. That is if you don't have an agenda.

Not what I said at all and I haven't said Dak doesn't have talent.

Jay Cutler has talent...but shouldn't be considered a franchise QB
Kirk Cousins has talent...but shouldn't be a considered a franchise QB
Tyrod Taylor has talent...but doesn't look to be a franchise QB
Mark Sanchez helped his team to two championships....wasn't a franchise QB

And I haven't said i don't want talent around him, I said i don't want a QB being made by his surroundings. I said i wanted a QB making those around him better. Understanding what I'm saying here: You could have a heck of a lot of talent around a QB which makes him competent, then there are QBs who take that already great talent and makes them even better (Sometimes into legends)

Dak will not always have this talent around him. We take for granted the line we have, and I can almost promise you something will happen in the next few years that will take our great group of lineman and have it decline. That's just how the NFL works. So when this offensive line declines and he no longer sit back and write an essay in the pocket, then what? Does heavy footed Dak suddenly become a Wilson? Does he perfect his mechanics and stop throwing off his back foot? Does he suddenly gain the arm that can fit balls into tight spaces on a consistent basis without the need of a Beasley or Witten have 3-4 steps on a corner/LB?

Again, everyone should still be skeptical of Dak. Anyone going all in are the ones with an agenda.

 

[Doomsday101]

Not what I said at all and I haven't said Dak doesn't have talent.

Jay Cutler has talent...but shouldn't be considered a franchise QB
Kirk Cousins has talent...but shouldn't be a considered a franchise QB
Tyrod Taylor has talent...but doesn't look to be a franchise QB
Mark Sanchez helped his team to two championships....wasn't a franchise QB

And I haven't said i don't want talent around him, I said i don't want a QB being made by his surroundings. I said i wanted a QB making those around him better. Understanding what I'm saying here: You could have a heck of a lot of talent around a QB which makes him competent, then there are QBs who take that already great talent and makes them even better (Sometimes into legends)

Dak will not always have this talent around him. We take for granted the line we have, and I can almost promise you something will happen in the next few years that will take our great group of lineman and have it decline. That's just how the NFL works. So when this offensive line declines and he no longer sit back and write an essay in the pocket, then what? Does heavy footed Dak suddenly become a Wilson? Does he perfect his mechanics and stop throwing off his back foot? Does he suddenly gain the arm that can fit balls into tight spaces on a consistent basis without the need of a Beasley or Witten have 3-4 steps on a corner/LB?

Again, everyone should still be skeptical of Dak. Anyone going all in are the ones with an agenda.

I don't know still waiting for Romo to not throw off his back foot at times. Dak will throw off his back foot at time as do most but Dak also will step into a throw. I have no agenda and think your evaluation is why off.

 

[mattjames2010]

Friendly reminder: Every successful QB was on a good team. If Dak was on a garbage team he'd be doing worse, but so what? That's true of every QB ever. A bunch of QBs played on an otherwise good 2015 Cowboys roster and the result was hot garbage. Not just a little worse, but total trash. Aikman won 3 championships on good teams, and was beaten into retirement when the team became bad. None of this is very interesting or explains anything because it's universal.

Let me turn this argument around - what about Dak's game isn't sustainable? What about it is built on BS, fakery, or what have you? What is the evidence that Dak is a fraud? The fact that he had a bad game once? The fact that he went 13-2 as a starter instead of 15-0? What FACTS support the idea that Dak, specifically, is a flash in the pan?

People sometimes want to make this about Zeke carrying the team, which is more understandable because Zeke owns and looks amazing. I'll be the first to say that he was a slam-dunk pick. But what did a decade of Adrian Peterson give the Vikings? Not a darn thing, except for when they had 1 good season of Favre.

Actually, the argument for Aikman is supportive of those criticizing Dak.

Aikman played for a team that had so much talent, for years, people said that talent made him. What happened when that talent declined? And by the way, those teams still had talent on them. We still made the playoffs. But Aikman was simply terrible, I mean, he was god awful. Now Aikman likes to state we never got to see what he was truly capable of in a high passing offense. Well okay, but the year he threw a lot he ended up with a 78.0 rating and that was still with a great ground game and a HOF receiver. All it took was losing a few players here and there and Aikman came back down to Earth and his flaws started to shine through.

And again, what you are asking supports my argument: There are QBs who have worked with a lot less over the years and were highly productive. That's the QB every franchise should strive for and I don't buy into this "franchise QBs are hard to find!" - Enough giving these $100 million contracts to subpar QBs while it hampers getting talent elsewhere that those very QBs rely on having.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Not what I said at all and I haven't said Dak doesn't have talent.

Jay Cutler has talent...but shouldn't be considered a franchise QB
Kirk Cousins has talent...but shouldn't be a considered a franchise QB
Tyrod Taylor has talent...but doesn't look to be a franchise QB
Mark Sanchez helped his team to two championships....wasn't a franchise QB

And I haven't said i don't want talent around him, I said i don't want a QB being made by his surroundings. I said i wanted a QB making those around him better. Understanding what I'm saying here: You could have a heck of a lot of talent around a QB which makes him competent, then there are QBs who take that already great talent and makes them even better (Sometimes into legends)

Dak will not always have this talent around him. We take for granted the line we have, and I can almost promise you something will happen in the next few years that will take our great group of lineman and have it decline. That's just how the NFL works. So when this offensive line declines and he no longer sit back and write an essay in the pocket, then what? Does heavy footed Dak suddenly become a Wilson? Does he perfect his mechanics and stop throwing off his back foot? Does he suddenly gain the arm that can fit balls into tight spaces on a consistent basis without the need of a Beasley or Witten have 3-4 steps on a corner/LB?

Again, everyone should still be skeptical of Dak. Anyone going all in are the ones with an agenda.

People going all in have two things for them..>Their own set of eyes and the fact that they are fans of the very team that the very player is playing on as we discuss said team and player on a fan message board. So of course the positive spin will be more than the negative spin for said player.


Sure other players had good rookie years (hardly any as good overall as Dak) and went on to be busts.
I don't think any of the players you listed had as good of a rookie season as dak did either.

However there is nothing wrong with going in with Dak at this point. You are not spending a huge butt load of cash on him right now like some of the other QBs out there that were not worth it, So if he does not pan out...you wasted a 4th round pick and salary and you start searching again. If he does turn out though....you just pulled the rabbit from the hat. You just hit a home run in a softball game while using a wiffle ball bat.

But instead...we are told to be careful...he might be a bust...while of course he could wind up being a bust but at least we did not waste a top first overall pick while trading multiple other picks to get there and spending a salary of a number one overall QB.

And Sure the team could change in the future but again so can the QB. That is what is so amazing about Dak right now...He seems to be years ahead of the normal Rookie QB in his reads and ability to protect the ball. You seem to the think that if the offense and team changes later that he has hit his peak now and will never be better. I think if he is this good this early and has the leadership qualities and the ability to learn from his mistakes that the other players and coaches have raved about...I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will improve his game as his gains more exp.

You seem to think the opposite.

Maybe that is where we differ.

 

[zrinkill]

I am begging the mods to allow this thread to be the exception to the don't bump old threads rule .....

because this one is gonna definitely need to be bumped at a later date.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I am begging the mods to allow this thread to be the exception to the don't bump old threads rule .....

because this one is gonna definitely need to be bumped at a later date.

We, mods and or admins, do not condone Call out threads.

Bumping old threads in the Off topic zone is ok.

However if someone wants to reference this thread, in the future, or other threads, in the future....they can always just provide a link to the thread and start a new thread.

If done, do so in a manner of...Do people still feel the same, or has some opinions changed as the title and premise of the thread...not ...look back at the fools or (insert other name) who did not think this would pan out in order to do a Call out thread.

 

[sean10mm]

Actually, the argument for Aikman is supportive of those criticizing Dak.

Aikman played for a team that had so much talent, for years, people said that talent made him. What happened when that talent declined? And by the way, those teams still had talent on them. We still made the playoffs. But Aikman was simply terrible, I mean, he was god awful. Now Aikman likes to state we never got to see what he was truly capable of in a high passing offense. Well okay, but the year he threw a lot he ended up with a 78.0 rating and that was still with a great ground game and a HOF receiver. All it took was losing a few players here and there and Aikman came back down to Earth and his flaws started to shine through.

And again, what you are asking supports my argument: There are QBs who have worked with a lot less over the years and were highly productive. That's the QB every franchise should strive for and I don't buy into this "franchise QBs are hard to find!" - Enough giving these $100 million contracts to subpar QBs while it hampers getting talent elsewhere that those very QBs rely on having.

Dak being like TROY AIKMAN is a BAD THING now? Holy crap, we're going down the rabbit hole here.

 

[Elusive6thRing]

There are certain people that are better posters when they're on your ignore list. Then they don't say anything stupid as long as you don't hit "show ignored content", because they aren't saying anything at all.

 

[dallasdave]

lol. He just won it...walking away. I want a double of whatever he's been drinking. Hey, lets jump back into the abyss for another 10 yrs. Good idea.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

There are certain people that are better posters when they're on your ignore list. Then they don't say anything stupid as long as you don't hit "show ignored content", because they aren't saying anything at all.

I only hit that once in awhile to see who some are talking to and then I laugh. Oh Matt.....lol

 

[haleyrules]

There are certain people that are better posters when they're on your ignore list. Then they don't say anything stupid as long as you don't hit "show ignored content", because they aren't saying anything at all.

Amen. There are so many great guys and gals to converse and have fun with here it just isn't worth while to waste time with any real negative type cyber tough guys. I put them on the ignore list instantly and continue to enjoy my friends. Much easier that way.

 

[Ranching]

Next year for a 1st and a 2nd round pick?? Could it happen?? Wham bam thank you mam!!

Yeah,yeah! And then we can sign Jonny Football! Lol

 

[plymkr]

I wouldn't trade Dak for 5 consecutive first round draft picks from Cleveland. There's nothing or no one that I would trade Dak for. You only get franchise QBs once a generation and the fact that we got a franchise QB at the exact moment we needed one with our current franchise QB coming off serious injury is a gift from the football gods.

I'm a Romo fan and always will be but if Dak was traded I think that would push me over the edge and I would stop watching football. 22 years of suck with a couple playoff flair ups here and there and now we got a good nucleus to build off of and there's even a thought to trade it away? No way dude, wouldn't trade Dak for anything. Again this is coming from a hard core Romo fan. There's no way I'd even think about trading Dak, Dak is playing the at an MVP level as a rookie. We're looking at a guy who can be the elite QB in the league for the next 10-12 years. I seriously think I'd be done with football if that happened. Again, Romo is my favorite Cowboy player since Darren Woodson and woody and Romo are 1 and 2 on my list of all time favorite Cowboys but I would be so disgusted with Jerry if Dak was traded that I would be done.