Transition to Tampa 2

[casmith07]

Terrible plan. The Tampa 2 was figured out 20 years ago. The only way to run it effectively is to have overwhelming talent and be able to get to the QB with your front 4. If you can't, then QBs can pick you apart because WRs are running free all over the place and sitting down in the open spaces.

As they have been for several years against us now -- our defensive front is a mess no matter what defense we run.

 

[Rockdoc]

I would love to see him as a Cowboy. As you can see by my avatar I'm a fan of the Hawkeyes.

he would make a good Tampa 2 CB
solid player

 

[AsthmaField]

I really like King's intangibles. Smart guy. Ball skills. Intense and loves football.

He simply doesn't have the measurable to get everyone worked up over him as a prospect. He's more quick than fast and lacks length.

However, I think he's a good football player who will help early on in his career. I like him better at safety but I do think he could be a corner in the right scheme.

He could make it to Dallas' second round pick but only because this draft is so loaded with secondary players. He's a really good player.

 

[the_h0wey]

i believe that letting Mo, Carr, Wilcox, and to a lesser extent Church, was intentional because Marianelli prefers to play cover 2 zone and those players did not fit the scheme. Mo and Carr are primarily press man corners, who have little awareness in zone and are not real strong tacklers, which you need outside in cover 2. Likewise, Wilcox and Church were in the box safeties with limited coverage range, which is the key for safeties in cover 2... so we sign a big corner like Carroll who is good in zone and can tackle and we will draft another. Likewise, we give Heath first shot at SS because he's got speed and range and we'all draft a speedy safety as well... if played right, and we get some semblance of a pass rush, cover 2 could generate more turnovers because DBs are all looking forward at the QB, not turning and running in man coverage.

Solid point. You remember a couple of years ago when we tried zone with Claiborne. He was atrocious

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Solid point. You remember a couple of years ago when we tried zone with Claiborne. He was atrocious

Yep. He doesn't have a clue in zone... Wilcox wasn't any better.

And Carr's reactions were too slow for zone.

The only one competent was Church.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Guys, there has never been such a thing as a defense that runs all man or all zone all the time. If you can't run both competently, you are going to be exposed. The Cowboys have not been able to run both competently for years. They've been a very poor zone coverage team. They're trying to remedy the situation.

 

[Teague31]

Talent always trumps scheme but none of the guys we lost are "talents". All else being equal I would much rather have guys that fit the scheme than don't

 

[FiveTime]

I really like King's intangibles. Smart guy. Ball skills. Intense and loves football.

He simply doesn't have the measurable to get everyone worked up over him as a prospect. He's more quick than fast and lacks length.

However, I think he's a good football player who will help early on in his career. I like him better at safety but I do think he could be a corner in the right scheme.

He could make it to Dallas' second round pick but only because this draft is so loaded with secondary players. He's a really good player.

Great intangibles and team guy... could have come out last year and probably been a higher pick after winning the Thorpe Award but chose to go back for senior year.

 

[ccb04]

I'm not sure if scheme is the primary reason that those guys weren't brought back. More likely, it's that they were over-paid. Church got $6+ mil, Carr got $6 mil, Claiborne $5 mil. for 1 year, McClain nearly $4 mil. just in his 1st year, etc. Additionally, each has glaring limitations. Church was limited athletically in coverage...as is Carr. Claiborne began to play pretty well, but has a damning injury history (to inc. starting just 7 games in 2016), & he wasn't as effective switching between coverages. Wilcox was at his best last year...but in a more limited role. McClain finally stayed healthy for most of last season, but saw his playing time dwindle towards seasons end.

Marinelli has become somewhat more versatile. He'll attempt to switch between zone & man...and has also begun to occasionally employ more odd fronts. That's more the prevailing way in the NFL now...as is many defenses being in sub-packages more than their base D.

In terms of talent needed to run a so called Tampa 2 hybrid...yeah, talent obviously helps, much like Seattle. Then again, you need talent to run any scheme. Hence teams like the Broncos, Giants, etc. spending big on their defenses.

In his last season with the Bears in 2012, Marinelli had very good talent on every level: Peppers was the 'War Daddy' on the D-Line. Briggs & Urlacher were at LB. And he had Tillman as his top secondary player. That said, lesser players also enjoyed career years: Israel Idonije (7.5 sacks), Corey Wootton (7 sacks), & Melton (6 sacks), on the DL. Tim Jennings (9 int's) & Major Wright (4 Int's), in the secondary. His defense that year was top 10 in everything, to include 3rd in points allowed & tops in the league with 44 takeaways.

 

[robbieruff]

2nd hand info, but from what I've read Dave Campo explained that was not on Byron. That Carr vacated his zone to trail wrs that potentially were going to get a hail mary.

Either way. You have to be more situationally aware in Byron's case. Cook was shredding us much of the day and if there's one dude I stick with if he crosses my area it's him. Especially if the play is developing to that side of the field. Bottom line for me is he got complacent because he didn't think Rodgers could make that throw. He was dead wrong.

 

[Zman5]

If we are going to a Tampa-2 scheme, the team must feel good about Jaylon Smith's full recovery chances. He'd be a perfect Tampa-2 MLB.

 

[gmoney112]

We're not going to run a cover 2. And a Tampa 2 is different than a Cover 2.

We're going to run a primarily cover 3, like we did in 2014 when we actually got interceptions.

Except this time we're going to try and find players that fit.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have no idea where the cover 2 idea came from. I've been saying getting rid of the man corners likely signals a return to zone but I'm with g, most likely they will run cover 3 more often like they did in 2014.

We also started performing much better in zone last year. Pretty much everyone was better at it.

 

[gmoney112]

Yes he did, and his Bears defenses were legitimately good defenses.

Seattle runs a Tampa 2 hybrid. But they have a great DL.

Huh? For as long as Seattle has had Thomas i'm pretty sure theyve been primarily a cover 3 single high, because his range is filthy. They also ran a lot of press bail, or changed coverages on sides of the field because Sherman can match up.

 

[gmoney112]

I have no idea where the cover 2 idea came from. I've been saying getting rid of the man corners likely signals a return to zone but I'm with g, most likely they will run cover 3 more often like they did in 2014.

We also started performing much better in zone last year. Pretty much everyone was better at it.

I have no idea how Tampa 2 even came into the picture. He hasn't run a Tampa 2 defense since Tampa Bay.

 

[OldCoach]

Terrible plan. The Tampa 2 was figured out 20 years ago. The only way to run it effectively is to have overwhelming talent and be able to get to the QB with your front 4. If you can't, then QBs can pick you apart because WRs are running free all over the place and sitting down in the open spaces.

Nobody runs a straight cover 2 always. That is just a base defense.

What happens, is the dbs will check coverages depending on the alignment of receivers. For example if the offense lines up in trips, the defense will normally check to cover five or some form of zone and lock the back side in man. In this scheme you need guys to be smart and communicate well.

 

[skinsscalper]

Terrible plan. The Tampa 2 was figured out 20 years ago. The only way to run it effectively is to have overwhelming talent and be able to get to the QB with your front 4. If you can't, then QBs can pick you apart because WRs are running free all over the place and sitting down in the open spaces.

Marinelli hasn't actually run a Tampa 2 scheme in years. There are times when he'll run a Tampa 2 coverage but it's not his or anybody's base defense and hasn't been for over a decade.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Cowboys run a cover 1 mostly. The second most defensive scheme the use is cover 3. Cover 2 is used in only 25% of passing plays.

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2016/08/30/sturm-know-cowboys-coverages

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Cowboys run a cover 1 mostly. The second most defensive scheme the use is cover 3. Cover 2 is used in only 25% of passing plays.

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2016/08/30/sturm-know-cowboys-coverages

Interesting article.

It's from the 2015 season... I wonder if the 2016 tendencies were different?

If cover-3 is the goal for the defense, then obviously they need a mix of corners... Some good at man... Some good at zone.

 

[unionjack8]

get good players, adopt your scheme to their strengths,

that's what great coaches do.

if you try to fit scheme you end up one dimensional