Trenches: Some proof on why we lose in the playoffs

[kskboys]

Not really. Could not win before him or after him and not when he held out or when he was hurt.

He only held out 2 games and missed very few. Too small of a sample size.

 

[kskboys]

Give me an example when Aikman did that.

Washington game.

 

[phildadon86]

Dak fans hate when QBs pull their teams out of holes (self inflicted or not) to win games.

They’re just so used to losing those games they can’t comprehend winning them.

That isnt at all what I said.

Keep projecting. Lawrence put his team in a 27 point hole.

Let me ask you a question.

If Dak threw 4 interceptions and set a playoff record for picks in a half of football and the team won. edit* I was wrong. Trevor threw 5 interceptions in a half. Imagine if Dak did that and the Cowboys won? You would be here posting 5 threads about how bad Dak played and how he did nothing to win the game.

You really want us to believe you wouldnt be here saying the rest of the team bailed Dak out after a bad performance?

Get real.

Im talking football. You are talking Dak.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

That isnt at all what I said.

Keep projecting. Lawrence put his team in a 27 point hole.

Let me ask you a question.

If Dak threw 4 interceptions and set a playoff record for picks in a half of football and the team won. edit* I was wrong. Trevor threw 5 interceptions in a half. Imagine if Dak did that and the Cowboys won? You would be here posting 5 threads about how bad Dak played and how he did nothing to win the game.

You really want us to believe you wouldnt be here saying the rest of the team bailed Dak out after a bad performance?

Get real.

Im talking football. You are talking Dak.

We’re never going to know because Dak isn’t built to dig teams out of holes.

Loser lose.

 

[DallasEast]

Why do we lose in the playoffs?

It's not complicated, it doesn't need a whole lot of analysis, reflection, evaluation, whatever.

All that anybody needs to do is determine how long something has been going on and look for the common thread.

Now, how long has this been going on?

Was Dak the starting quarterback from the beginning of this streak of early playoff eliminations?

No? Then it isn't Dak.

Has anybody in the organization been at their football related position from the very beginning to now? Is it the responsibility of this person to assist in building the team into legitimate championship contenders?

Yes? Well then, you've found your problem

.....one from which all other perceived problems were mere symptoms.

Good post. The prevailing 6-7 year counter-argument has been that the identified variable is simply a figurehead. Someone supposedly not 'significantly' involved in front office planning. Someone inferred as not even making any decisions in player acquisition, etc.

In other words, all of the shortcomings are a by-product of bad luck. And according to the old saying, "If it were not for bad luck, there would not be any luck at all."

 

[Trendnet]

It is a known fact that the laws of the universe require that Dak can only play well if everyone else also plays well first.

If our defense is off that day then, by those universal laws, Dak must also be off.

It sucks that we are bound to these laws.

You have to admit, it is a great argument on why Dak is the least important player on the team.

If 'trenches' is the key to winning, those cap dollars should be thrown to lineman rather than a QB who isn't necessary by Ops own arguments.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

You have to admit, it is a great argument on why Dak is the least important player on the team.

If 'trenches' is the key to winning, those cap dollars should be thrown to lineman rather than a QB who isn't necessary by Ops own arguments.

Dak fans are always contradicting themselves and low key saying he sucks without even realize they’re doing it.

 

[OGSixshooter]

We are losing in the trenches, just a thought I’d share…starts on Offense, because Dak/Tony gets blamed a lot,​

Zeke and our run game in the playoffs,

• 2016 -22-125 5.7, lost over no defense against rogers not on dak.
• 2018 -Seattle game 26-137 won the game. The next week 2018 rams game 47 yards, averaging 2.4 yards per carry yup LOSS but really was on the defense but dak alone once again.
• 2021-31 yards on 12 carries 2.6 yup a loss.
• 2022 -23 carries 53 yards 2.4 YPC, that’s 2 games, ouch. I mean at least we did beat Tampa Bay on Prescott’s arm with no run game…
• 2023-TP wow HOF 15-56 at 3.7 he was cooking but down big they were hollow stats folks.

And trust me it was just as bad for the quarterback with the offensive line not opening holes, no run game, and this is what you want where is Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith and the offensive lines from those championship teams??​

I mean for a defense I'd have to go by memory, but I just know the defense gave up

2016- the last play of the game with less than two minutes and 2016 is why we lost to Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers while the offense played great.

2018- the Rams game in 2018 there was no run game as I said above but there also was no defense 278 yards on the ground.

2021- this one's tougher to remember but if memory serves me right first half of that game the defense gave up nearly 10 yards per carry to deebo Samuels they owned the time of possession and then on offense they had to deal with once again no run game and you had to add on the fact that the offensive line had 11 penalties yeah quarterback is supposed to play well in that game short should have won that game by himself put him on his back and won the game.

2022- in my opinion this was one of the ones that's tough to blame the defense they played pretty well but at times they gave up yards on the ground but they did not make the key plays the championship defense should yeah Trayvon diggs didn't break up that play against kittles he did not intercept that ball would have been some game changing plays in a close game.. But we do know it was very easy for their defense to stop our run game and once again make our offense one-dimensional and it's very difficult to play quarterback in this kind of environment. IMHO

2023- this is the absolute **** show total annihilation from beginning to end by the team, 100% all on the team. please do not blame the flow of the game which started out down 7 nothing because the defense sucked but it was more people keep citing those two interceptions by Prescott is somehow setting the tone forgetting that the defense didn't stop the Green Bay Packers at all the whole entire game. Let's be clear that first interception Brandon cooks was interfered with not once but twice there was nowhere to throw the ball so Prescott said hey go make a play there was no call by the referees but the reason that ball got picked off is because our receiver got yanked once and then solder pulled back while they were going to the ground so he can sneak up in there and just grab that ball. 2nd interception it was clear that Prescott was trying to make a play he threw the ball where the play was supposed to go and CD lamb broke off his route and started up field they were he was trying for a off script play and it didn't turn out well.

So yes, while Prescott did play great play bad at times deserves some criticism there's obvious proof here, in the trenches, this Cowboys team is set up for failure against the better teams in the league.. they do not bring what it takes as a team to win.

Where is the defense, run game, and coaching?? This happened to Tony Romo as well, so let’s stay on facts and not flawed memory's. LOL​

let me finish on this,

because we all want the championships, and we keep citing how great Troy and Roger were as championship quarterbacks and deserve the Hall of Fame flowers that they get...

come on people, give me a break they never had to carry a team in that mess I described above, they did not have to feel like they had to come into a game and play perfectly or take all the heat for a loss.

They had Tony Dorsett, Emmitt Smith, Jimmy Johnson, Landry and some of the best play in the trenches you can get out of a team and that is why they won championships, had nothing to do with just having a great quarterback.

I don't think you have the same definition of "proof" that I have, the dictionary or the rest of the world. This is not "proof". This is bias, apologetics and sentimental fan attachment masquerading as analysis.

I'm being kind.

Let's take one example: 2022- "tough to blame the defense" but THEN YOU DO EXACTLY THAT. If you were to apply 10% of the EXACTING STANDARD that you applied to the defense in 2022 to the guy making more than half the D...you might have a point.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

I don't think you have the same definition of "proof" that I have, the dictionary or the rest of the world. This is not "proof". This is bias, apologetics and sentimental fan attachment masquerading as analysis.

I'm being kind.

Let's take one example: 2022- "tough to blame the defense" but THEN YOU DO EXACTLY THAT. If you were to apply 10% of the EXACTING STANDARD that you applied to the defense in 2022 to the guy making more than half the D...you might have a point.

But he won't the church of Dak would not stand for it.

 

[thunderpimp91]

You have to admit, it is a great argument on why Dak is the least important player on the team.

If 'trenches' is the key to winning, those cap dollars should be thrown to lineman rather than a QB who isn't necessary by Ops own arguments.

That's my argument as to why moving on from Dak needs to at least be an option on the table for the Cowboys. Not that he's the least important player but replacement QBs are a whole lot easier to find when you've got a deep roster around them. Obviously I can't prove it, but I have a suspicion that Brock Purdy wouldn't be the same QB if he ended up in Carolina. I don't think Dak is the same QB if he had ended up in Cleveland. On the flip side you give Baker Mayfield a defense allowing less that 20PPG and Mike Evans to sling the ball to and all of a sudden hes a pro bowl QB, winning a playoff game, and signing for 8x what he made the year before.

 

[LonnieElam]

So other teams said: Let's shut the run game down and make Dak beat us.
And Dak said: That's no fair, what am I supposed to do now.

Yup. It started week 2 in 2017 against Denver.

 

[Chasing6]

He only held out 2 games and missed very few. Too small of a sample size.

He also played before and after. 3 season is too small.

 

[Chasing6]

I agree with everything you said except for this narrative, it's false do you really believe that Prescott and his agents who are on top of this would have allowed him to sign a deal of the same smaller amount without it being a shorter contract with a lot of extra stuff thrown in to be in the new contract talks quicker..

Look,​

​

these guys aren't stupid TUA just turned down 50 million you're saying get ahead of this Miami's trying but these players know exactly what's coming, they will not sign a five year deal at less when they know other guys are coming up, literally just happened with CD lamb, Justin Jefferson and jamar chase ,​

​

they didn't care about what brown got either brown got they didn't care about what Smith got because you know why they're better than them and they know it they're going to get bigger money they were waiting to their counterparts, they felt would get a similar contract ,they all waited around the shoe dropped, and now CD lamb cost more has nothing to do with the Dallas Cowboys waiting they will not allow themselves to be duped... Ohh you're blaming the front office when there's two other moving parts it's called an agent and a player and they're smarter than you think...​

Lamar Jackson is one of the only people in the league I know that did this without an agent and yet he bet on himself, Like Dak, he wouldn't take less and played on his final year, team blinked first,

he probably could have got more money or more guarantees or a better structured contract but most of these players get on the franchise tag or on their fifth year option because they're waiting for more money,

this has nothing to do with the Cowboys FO, these players have agents that are smart they're lawyers they do this for a living sports, agents look ahead five years, and they see what contracts are coming up and they have these discussions... So everything you said, I agree with until you mention that because,

I get tired of hearing that they will not fool most players who have good agents they will have some kind of conversation that says OK if you want me to take a little less now it's going to have to be for three years with the 4th year being voided not four years with two void years to help the team you literally don't understand these players understand the market that's why they have agents they literally are not signing something for less to help the team out when they know what they actually are going to get a couple years down the road...

So yes Prescott may have signed for a few million less maybe 5 but he would have wanted a shorter contract or after three years he would have held out again, he would have demanded more money,

I mean they keep up in Patrick mahomes contract to keep him steady I know it's not a big news story but it is happening a lot of these players realize when they sign how much they can sign for next time or whoever is going to sign again,

I know it sounds like rambling but it's the truth you all are out of control with blaming the front office on things that we just saw happen CeeDee was not signing a new deal three months ago or March 14th or whenever the new league because he was waiting for Justin Jefferson or jamar chase now he's got his base foundation for debates and negotiations..

The front office does not do this on purpose and the one thing you all clamor about on here is Jerry Jones not much of A football guy but he's definitely a business guy he knows contracts he knows money and he's got several probably 12 if I'm guessing layers of lawyers and CPA's that are definitely in tune with the cap and everything that's going on now and five years from now and they're not going to strong arm players into signing smaller contracts...


that's just not happening now this is not the 90s let's get away from all that this is different and these players know it..

I mean think about things that have changed just in the last three years, players now positional players have seen what contracts that quarterbacks are getting they no longer want to just be the highest paid player at their position, they no longer want top five money, they no longer want to just be millionaires, they want to be the highest paid positional player in the league outside of quarterback that is changed you are not going to make players take money early to help the team unless they choose to do so, but I'm telling you that is not the way this has been going the last five years things have been changing and changing fast and the Dallas Cowboys front office is not to blame they know how to structure contracts and they know a lot about money players and agents have become smarter and no longer without leverage..

If our FO is not even trying to negotiate there is no one else to blame.

 

[Qcard]

Yes it is. Maybe not to you. Who knows what little agenda you're spewing, but to 99% of the fans on this board it is purely about football.

Here come captain save a forum……

Dak Haters are not like us

 

[Rockport]

But he won't the church of Dak would not stand for it.

Dak lives in your head. He owns you.

 

[Qcard]

I am not even saying Prescott is better or not.

Just using Lawrence as an example in that list is a joke. He threw 4 picks in the first half (pretty sure thats a record for the playoffs) and the worst HC and OC in history handed the Jags the game back by making Herbert throw a million times with a 27 point lead.

But yeah. Lets credit Lawrence.

Herbert and Lawrence should be 4 Rds “Pedigree” better than Prescott according to the football people……

 

[OGSixshooter]

That's my argument as to why moving on from Dak needs to at least be an option on the table for the Cowboys. Not that he's the least important player but replacement QBs are a whole lot easier to find when you've got a deep roster around them. Obviously I can't prove it, but I have a suspicion that Brock Purdy wouldn't be the same QB if he ended up in Carolina. I don't think Dak is the same QB if he had ended up in Cleveland. On the flip side you give Baker Mayfield a defense allowing less that 20PPG and Mike Evans to sling the ball to and all of a sudden hes a pro bowl QB, winning a playoff game, and signing for 8x what he made the year before.

No, the problem is that Dak doesn't have ENOUGH SUPPORT. He needs 13 pro-bowlers, 6 all-pros, defense to hold opponent under 15 points - and no fumbles, drops or mistakes BY ANYONE - then we can judge Dak fairly.

*insert sarcasm emoji*

 

[OGSixshooter]

Dak lives in your head. He owns you.

No, he owns Cowboy's fans hopes and dreams who believe in him. How many do NOW?

LOL...no self-respecting Cowboy fan is surprised when Dak goes full Rudolph...

 

[Rockport]

No, he owns Cowboy's fans hopes and dreams who believe in him. How many do NOW?

LOL...no self-respecting Cowboy fan is surprised when Dak goes full Rudolph...

 

[Cowboys5217]

You have to admit, it is a great argument on why Dak is the least important player on the team.

If 'trenches' is the key to winning, those cap dollars should be thrown to lineman rather than a QB who isn't necessary by Ops own arguments.

You are correct, sir.