Trysten Hill is not a bust

[waldoputty]

based on https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015...e-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round, the chance of getting a starting DL is 26% in the 2nd round and 46% for a db. this is based on many years of statistics for all the teams.

so of course, your chance is better to draft a starting db than a starting dl.

why would anyone draft a dl instead of db then?

well, that is because teams value dl more than db, or they would draft a db given the statistics...

i wonder why or are they all stupid

 

[xwalker]

based on https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015...e-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round, the chance of getting a starting DL is 26% in the 2nd round and 46% for a db. this is based on many years of statistics for all the teams.

so of course, your chance is better to draft a starting db than a starting dl.

why would anyone draft a dl instead of db then?

well, that is because teams value dl more than db, or they would draft a db given the statistics...

i wonder why or are they all stupid

DL is a higher value position than Safety.

Higher value meaning that it costs more to sign them (on average) and it requires higher draft picks to find an elite one (on average).

Look at the top 10 draft picks every year. How many are Safeties?

You have your choice of the very best Fullbacks in round 2 every year.

Most years you have your choice of the very best punters or kickers in the 2nd round.

 

[ShiningStar]

I would have liked the safety, we took Hill, i want Hill to succeed. End of story for me.

 

[Sydla]

I think there was a better approach to this then the Cowboys took. They should have added a better vet DT that would provide some insurance in case Hill turned out to be a larger developmental project than they thought.

I have little doubt that Marinelli basically sold the front office on the concept that despite being raw, he would turn Hill into a player this year.

We shall see. If Collins gets hurt, the 3T could be a real issue if Hill isn't ready to play.

 

[roughneck266]

You have to be a idiot to call someone a bust after the first preseason game.

True, but that has never stopped it from happening.

 

[xwalker]

I think there was a better approach to this then the Cowboys took. They should have added a better vet DT that would provide some insurance in case Hill turned out to be a larger developmental project than they thought.

I have little doubt that Marinelli basically sold the front office on the concept that despite being raw, he would turn Hill into a player this year.

We shall see. If Collins gets hurt, the 3T could be a real issue if Hill isn't ready to play.

They managed last season with Collins missing 3 games and being limited until about game 9.
- Crawford started at 3-tech DT in the first 8 games.

Hyder can play some snaps at 3-tech.

I think Covington is an upgrade over the 4th Game Day DTs they used last season (Ross, Reid, etc..).

The biggest issue with the slow development for Hill with regards to 2019, is that it reduces the chances that they move on from Crawford.

The Quinn suspension also reduces the likelihood that they decide Crawford's 7M cost is too much.

I'm not too concerned about the 7M for the season, but I always prefer an extra spot for a young player to make the 53.

 

[waldoputty]

I think there was a better approach to this then the Cowboys took. They should have added a better vet DT that would provide some insurance in case Hill turned out to be a larger developmental project than they thought.

I have little doubt that Marinelli basically sold the front office on the concept that despite being raw, he would turn Hill into a player this year.

We shall see. If Collins gets hurt, the 3T could be a real issue if Hill isn't ready to play.

the front office is just not going to spend serious $ in fa.
hill is learning and everyone knew he did not play that much in college.
in particular, his reps are lower than ideal and his technique is lacking.
so what in the world would you expect in his first preseason game.
were we all watching hoping for 2 sacks, of course.
are we surprised with lack of results, should we be?
as fuzzy and x said, he is learning technique.
do we expect better at the end of preseason, yes.
how much better, nobody knows.
will he be a player at game 1, who knows.
will he be better later in the season than earlier, almost definitely unless he gets hurt.

what hill has is the size with the first step.
very few dt's have that and that would be what could make him very special.
would i be surprised if he does not do much year 1, no given how long other dts have needed.
would i be surprised if he makes rookie of the year, no.
that combination of size and explosiveness is very rare.

do we expect collins to get hurt, certainly given past history.
that is one use for crawford.

 

[gmoney112]

They managed last season with Collins missing 3 games and being limited until about game 9.
- Crawford started at 3-tech DT in the first 8 games.

Hyder can play some snaps at 3-tech.

I think Covington is an upgrade over the 4th Game Day DTs they used last season (Ross, Reid, etc..).

The biggest issue with the slow development for Hill with regards to 2019, is that it reduces the chances that they move on from Crawford.

The Quinn suspension also reduces the likelihood that they decide Crawford's 7M cost is too much.

I'm not too concerned about the 7M for the season, but I always prefer an extra spot for a young player to make the 53.

Crawford isn't going anywhere unfortunately. Next year is probably a different story. But between the young guys at DE and just enough uncertainty at the 3tech, Crawford is here to stay one more year. And it's not just Hill, Collins body just does not agree with his choice of employment. At some point he probably will have a foot or other injury.

I do think we have 2 guys better than the Ross and Reids of the NFL. I thought Covington was a fine pickup, but Walker is also a surprise. With Collins and Covington only under contract for this year, he might make this team.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Which makes the pick even more stupid. I thought we'd turned the corner and stopped drafting backups in rounds you draft starters. That's the spin.

Exactly! This is why some of us are upset and rightfully so. This organization refuses to learn. You can't build a good young team and keep it playing together in its prime when you're using 1st and 2nd round picks to draft backups while the competition is doing the opposite while drafting starters. It eventually will come back to bite you in the rear end.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Juan Thornhill reportedly starting for Kansas City Chiefs after first preseason game..............ugh could have had him.

Thornhill also leads all Kansas City DBs in camp with 6 INTs. Double ugh! We should have picked him instead. Imagine Thornhill teamed up with Woods? They would be intercepting balls left and right. Plus, I read how Thornhill surprised the Chiefs at camp recently with how he was able to blanket for 60 yards downfield and shut down Tyreek Hill, the Chiefs fastest player/WR and one of the fastest in the league.

[After what was reported to be a good start to fall camp, he had a nice showing in the team's first preseason game. On Monday morning, he was reportedly working with the first-team defense almost exclusively.

"It looks like Juan Thornhill has taken over as the starting safety. We’ve seen instances of Thornhill getting reps with the ones, but Sorensen has rarely (if ever?) taken reps with the #2 defense in camp. Sorensen is in with the 2’s today."

Chiefs rookie shows off speed
Not long after it was noticed that Thornhill started taking the bulk of the snaps at first-team safety, he showed observers one of the major reasons why he got the job.

During one particular coverage drill, the safety ran step for step with the player widely considered one of, if not the fastest players in the NFL. Tyreek Hill was going one-on-one with the safety for 60-yards downfield according to Kiley.

The man, known as "Cheetah," wasn't able to lose his target. This would be impressive if you were talking about a cover corner. It's doubly impressive that it's a safety getting that kind of job done.]
https://us.blastingnews.com/sports/...efs-after-first-preseason-game-002964841.html

We should have taken him. Oh, well...

 

[waldoputty]

Exactly! This is why some of us are upset and rightfully so. This organization refuses to learn. You can't build a good young team and keep it playing together in its prime when you're using 1st and 2nd round picks to draft backups while the competition is doing the opposite while drafting starters. It eventually will come back to bite you in the rear end.

in which planet is drafting a dl with extremely high sparq score but lacking college performance drafting for backups.
you can fairly say they are taking too big a chance, but it is a practice of drafting for probowler or bust.

 

[ghst187]

Still very early to consider him a bust.....

Taco on the other hand....is running out of time

 

[ItzKelz]

I keep seeing threads and posts about Hill being a bust.
Now this is the usual crap from the sky is falling and the Debbie downers, and the usuals that do not like anything.

But to listen to the team, they are are happy with his play and his progress. They liked his never give up attitude and the power the shows. They thought he had a good effort and game against SF. Garrett did say he need to learn still. But they like his progress and he looks the player that knew they drafted.

One PS game and the guy did not have 17 sacks like fans want, so now he is the next player such as LVE was last year, labeled a bust. Typical crap.

I can't believe Trysten has not taken us to a Super Bowl yet....

 

[America's Cowboy]

in which planet is drafting a dl with extremely high sparq score but lacking college performance drafting for backups.
you can fairly say they are taking too big a chance, but it is a practice of drafting for probowler or bust.

The Cowboys made the same exact mistake with Taco Charlton. High sparq score but lacking college performance. They used a 1st round pick on a project and known backup. Now they've done the same by using a 2nd round pick on the same type of high sparq but performance lacking project backup in Trysten Hill.

Who drafts project backups in their first 2 rounds other than the Cowboys, especially when you have other talent available to be picked that can start and star for you immediately?

 

[waldoputty]

The Cowboys made the same exact mistake with Taco Charlton. High sparq score but lacking college performance. They used a 1st round pick on a project and known backup. Now they've done the same by using a 2nd round pick on the same type of high sparq but performance lacking project backup in Trysten Hill.

Who drafts project backups in their first 2 rounds other than the Cowboys, especially when you have other talent available to be picked that can start and star for you immediately?

the story has not been written on taco yet, as much as many hate him.
i wanted watt, but i understood why they drafted him.
there is a reason why dl is hard to draft and why only 26% drafted in the 2nd round become starters.

taco actually did well in college and he did it in michigan, but it was only senior year.
in contrast, hill is the one lacking performance as a non-starter, but he was drafted in the late 2nd instead in the late 1st.
so the risk is higher, but this team is known for taking risk like jaylon, gregory and lee.
in none of those cases are they drafting for backups.
with this strategy, sometimes you get the probowler (lee, jaylon), and sometimes you get a backup or worse. in spite of everything, their draft performance has been very good compared to the pack.

all this whining after 1 preseason game is just pathetic.
it reminds me of what happened with jaylon.
a bunch of people who were hoping for the player is bad so they are correct.
if they want starters so badly, why dont they just draft dbs and other players with a high chance for success.
so the team consist of entirely dbs, rbs, lb and og.
we dont need any dl, qb and ot.

 

[America's Cowboy]

the story has not been written on taco yet, as much as many hate him.
i wanted watt, but i understood why they drafted him.
there is a reason why dl is hard to draft and why only 26% drafted in the 2nd round become starters.

taco actually did well in college and he did it in michigan, but it was only senior year.
in contrast, hill is the one lacking performance as a non-starter, but he was drafted in the late 2nd instead in the late 1st.
so the risk is higher, but this team is known for taking risk like jaylon, gregory and lee.
in none of those cases are they drafting for backups.
with this strategy, sometimes you get the probowler (lee, jaylon), and sometimes you get a backup or worse. in spite of everything, their draft performance has been very good compared to the pack.

all this whining after 1 preseason game is just pathetic.
it reminds me of what happened with jaylon.
a bunch of people who were hoping for the player is bad so they are correct.
if they want starters so badly, why dont they just draft dbs and other players with a high chance for success.
so the team consist of entirely dbs, rbs, lb and og.
we dont need any dl, qb and ot.

Nice speech... except after realizing that rookie UDFA DT Ricky Walker showed up and played very well this first preseason game, garnering 3 tackles, 1 QB pressure and 1 tackle for loss, ..... while the costly 2nd round DT pick, Trysten Hill, garnered a goose egg "0" on every statistical stat available, especially after he played for 55% of all defensive snaps and had 3x the amount of opportunities to pad his stats, unlike Walker had.

Why use a costly 2nd round pick on a non-productive DT when you could get better production from an undrafted rookie DT?

 

[AsthmaField]

As a fan I like Dak, as a former coach I seen a lot of good qualities. He can be a great QB with a supporting cast. He's much better than anything we could go out and get. I don't think he deserves top 5 money, but he will get it because of the market.
Leadership and toughness earns your players respect, he has that. Players play hard for him, if his demands get outta whack, that could change.
He doesn't make his teammates better with his arm, but he brings out the best in them with his leadership and grit.

This is a really good, really accurate post.

 

[waldoputty]

Nice speech... except after realizing that rookie UDFA DT Ricky Walker showed up and played very well this first preseason game, garnering 3 tackles, 1 QB pressure and 1 tackle for loss, ..... while the costly 2nd round DT pick, Trysten Hill, garnered a goose egg "0" on every statistical stat available, especially after he played for 55% of all defensive snaps and had 3x the amount of opportunities to pad his stats, unlike Walker had.

Why use a costly 2nd round pick on a non-productive DT when you could get better production from an undrafted rookie DT?

thank you.
you finally answered my question.
hill had 3 times the amount of snaps that walker did.

so when hill played said 3rd string, he already played plenty of snaps.
so hill was likely worn down since rookie linemen get worn down easily.
whereas walker was fresh against said 3rd string.
apples and oranges.

nevertheless, i want to be wrong with walker.
i want walker to be better than hill.
i have seen nothing wrong so far with hill that is disturbing.
so that would give us 2 great dl candidates.
instead, some of us just want to tell the world - I WAS RIGHT, I WAS RIGHT, after 1 pathetic preseason game.

btw, before you bury taco.
he is not that different than dlaw before dlaw broke out.
i was wrong on that one, and i am sure glad i was wrong.
as @xwalker said just above - is this lack of critic ability to think or emotional duress causing inability to be rational or both, i dont know.

 

[America's Cowboy]

thank you.
you finally answered my question.
hill had 3 times the amount of snaps that walker did.

so when hill played said 3rd string, he already played plenty of snaps.
so hill was likely worn down since rookie linemen get worn down easily.
whereas walker was fresh against said 3rd string.
apples and oranges.

nevertheless, i want to be wrong with walker.
i want walker to be better than hill.
i have seen nothing wrong so far with hill that is disturbing.
so that would give us 2 great dl candidates.
instead, some of us just want to tell the world - I WAS RIGHT, I WAS RIGHT, after 1 pathetic preseason game.

btw, before you bury taco.
he is not that different than dlaw before dlaw broke out.
i was wrong on that one, and i am sure glad i was wrong.
as @xwalker said just above - is this lack of critic ability to think or emotional duress causing inability to be rational or both, i dont know.

The only one being emotionally duressed and unable to be rational is... (look in the mirror).

Btw, if you watched the game, Hill played most of his snaps during the 2nd half, which would have been against 2nd and mostly 3rd stringers, the same ones Walker played against. That kills your intent to make Hill seem as if he played most of his snaps against 1st or 2nd stringers. If he's tired after playing 3x the amount of snaps that Walker played, Hill obviously is not in any shape capable of playing so many snaps, especially since he could not even accrue 1 single tackle. Very bad. Nice way to use a costly 2nd round pick, eh? Let's wait 3+ years to see if he grows into fruition, huh? Not a smart way to use those costly 1st and 2nd round picks on longterm projects.

 

[Dre11]

Where are all these threads calling Hill a bust?

Did you miss the game and post game thread last week? ...lol