Turning from tanking

kskboys said:
That is the fan take, but it doesn't appear to be the case. You're talking about a hangover that continues even w/ major talent added. Fans love to say this, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Too many poor teams have risen up to win for that to be the case. MIA is the lastest example. They tanked, and tanked hard. This season, they're looking like a playoff team. No hangover. Same HC as last year.
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But they had their defense in place from prior good drafts. Just needed a stud QB. And appears they have hit. And it helps Pats are down finally.

Similar to Clev. But it took more than one draft. And ultimately had to hit on a QB.
 
Diehardblues said:
Williams wasn’t considered worthy of his slot as we traded him. He was good initially but fizzled out.

And Elliott is beginning to fizzle too although I’d give us 1out of 3.

Mo was a complete bust. You’re coming off as apologetic for our front office.
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I wouldn't have taken any of the 3, but two of them were good players and helped us win.

Not apologetic at all. That's not what this is about. I simply disagree that our high draft slot was a negative, which is what you are saying. In Elliot's case, we wasted our 2nd round pick w/ Jaylon. Still, there were good players there we could've taken, which is what this comes down to anyway. It's that talent available at that slot. Which is better than the slots farther along. It's foolish to say that it doesn't matter if we draft later in the draft.
 
kskboys said:
I wouldn't have taken any of the 3, but two of them were good players and helped us win.

Not apologetic at all. That's not what this is about. I simply disagree that our high draft slot was a negative, which is what you are saying. In Elliot's case, we wasted our 2nd round pick w/ Jaylon. Still, there were good players there we could've taken, which is what this comes down to anyway. It's that talent available at that slot. Which is better than the slots farther along. It's foolish to say that it doesn't matter if we draft later in the draft.
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C’mon now K. Didn’t say it was a negative. And didn’t say it was better to draft later. Simply critiquing our selections for those high slots.

At least you agree we could have done more with those picks.
 
Diehardblues said:
But they had their defense in place from prior good drafts. Just needed a stud QB. And appears they have hit. And it helps Pats are down finally.

Similar to Clev. But it took more than one draft. And ultimately had to hit on a QB.
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Point remains. There was no hangover from tanking.

I believe the hangover idea is a myth.
 
Diehardblues said:
C’mon now K. Didn’t say it was a negative. And didn’t say it was better to draft later. Simply critiquing our selections for those high slots.

At least you agree we could have done more with those picks.
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Absolutely. Wouldn't have taken any of those 3.

However, this thread is about tanking being good/bad.
 
hindsight continues to come in at a good 20/20. so many woulda, coulda, shoulda's.
 
kskboys said:
Absolutely. Wouldn't have taken any of those 3.

However, this thread is about tanking being good/bad.
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Yea it is but often a thread takes it turns.

But if we can establish that our higher picks weren’t taken full advantage of then it becomes a warranted discussion pertaining to the original subject. Which apparently you agree at least in part.
 
Diehardblues said:
Yea it is but often a thread takes it turns.

But if we can establish that our higher picks weren’t taken full advantage of then it becomes a warranted discussion pertaining to the original subject. Which apparently you agree at least in part.
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to me it was more a matter of whether or not tanking is tantamount to quitting. i decided it isn't, ergo tanking is ok by me. just a business decision. but a most worthy thread.
 
cern said:
hindsight continues to come in at a good 20/20. so many woulda, coulda, shoulda's.
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Yep

But that’s a huge part of playing Monday Morning QB driving these fan forums and social media as it always has. Before we had these mediums I called in to radio shows and wrote letter to the editors. And still do on occasion.

This is the era of Instant Replay where almost every play and every score is over scrutinized for accuracy. I don’t necessarily agree with it all but this is where we have come. No wonder the criticism and the coulda woulda shoulda has heightened as well.
 
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kskboys said:
Yeah, but looking at one worst case scenario doesn't prove anything. Bad drafting is bad drafting no matter where you pick.

Look at last year's draft, for example. Chase Young. 2nd pick in the draft. Ultra stud. Soooooooo, who's the next best DE? Chaisson? Epensa? There is a chasm of difference. So, in saying draft position isn't that important, you'd have to agree that Chaisson/Epensa are just as good as Chase Young.
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I didn't say draft position wasn't important, I said just being down a few spots doesn't automatically mean you can't improve your team.

What about players like Brady? Kamara? Those guys weren't anywhere near first round picks. Didn't hurt the Saints that they didn't have the top pick, still did great.

And so what if Young is much better than Chaisson? Do the Cowboys just need a safety and it's "off to the races"? My point is that if the Cowboys can't get the stud DE or S then there are MANY other players they can get that can result in a much improved team. I just don't like the notion that if you draft a few spots farther down you're doomed to miss out on a great player. And I'm just noting one possible worst case scenario, for an example. And what about Claiborne? 6th overall pick, and he never panned out, mostly due to injuries but the end result is the same, didn't get first round production from a first round pick. What if the Cowboys tanked to get him? Bucs passed on Dorsett and got Bell, who worked out better? 16 teams passed on Emmitt, think they maybe some didn't regret doing so?

Hope\ we all realize that drafting and setting up a team isn't a formula thing, it's way more complicated than that...
 
cern said:
to me it was more a matter of whether or not tanking is tantamount to quitting. i decided it isn't, ergo tanking is ok by me. just a business decision. but a most worthy thread.
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Yea, I’m not sure we can’t give a 100% effort and still lose. Which is ok with me. I fully understand and appreciate the benefits of losing for the draft as the NFL intended for it to be but I still want a competitive game for 60 minutes.

I thought the Steeler game was much more enjoyable than the last two losses on a mere entertainment basis which is basically what the Cowboys have become anyway.
 
Diehardblues said:
Yea, I’m not sure we can’t give a 100% effort and still lose. Which is ok with me. I fully understand and appreciate the benefits of losing for the draft as the NFL intended for it to be but I still want a competitive game for 60 minutes.

I thought the Steeler game was much more enjoyable than the last two losses on a mere entertainment basis which is basically what the Cowboys have become anyway.
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i went into this thread with the idea that tanking was quitting. actually, it was ksk's arguments that caused me to change my mind.
 
Tanking can be beneficial for the draft. But in our case I don’t think we need to tank. I think we can lose fighting hard without tanking. How frikin sad is that. Lol
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
Yeah already lost 7 games, won't take many more to get that top-3 draft spot...
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Right.. I’m not sure what game anyone thinks we will win?

Wash just manhandled us. At Bengals. Doubt it. Giants might be best team in our division now. Maybe Philly if they turn it over 4 times again. IDK.

But having said that . I want to see us playing hard. I hate watching 30-0 games. 24-19 much more enjoyable.
 
Diehardblues said:
Right.. I’m not sure what game anyone thinks we will win?

Wash just manhandled us. At Bengals. Doubt it. Giants might be best team in our division now. Maybe Philly if they turn it over 4 times again. IDK.

But having said that . I want to see us playing hard. I hate watching 30-0 games. 24-19 much more enjoyable.
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i hope dalton is given a short leash. if he screws up, sit him and bring in gilbert.
 
Ultimately I think losing for a cause ( higher pick in the draft) settles better with fans. Like there’s a silver lining for all of this losing .

I think we’re going to lose anyway. Lol
 
emotions over reality and logic.

if it helps you enjoy the games, great. but its not in the teams best interest.
 
cern said:
i hope dalton is given a short leash. if he screws up, sit him and bring in gilbert.
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And I think we will. But you have to start him if he’s healthy . 9 years over 1 NFL start as a 4th stringer.

And I like Garrett. A gutsy performance. And a local kid I’ll always root for.
 
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