Tyron Smith and Doug Free

gimmesix

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I've said before that Free was "good enough" to win with in 2013. It just irritates me that he does not appear to have worked hard in the weight room.

I don't think having a big chest necessarily correlates to core strength. Look at this picture where you essentially have Free and Smith side by side and notice that the thickness of their trunks are similar. Free worked to put on that weight and gain that size to strengthen his upper body. Yes, he has some bad weight, but he thickened up to keep from being pushed around.

If it was required for every lineman to look like Smith to succeed, there wouldn't be many linemen in the league.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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Free is a big man....he may not have the genetics of Smith to have that ripped look, but look at those shoulders and traps. You don't get those eating Cheetos.

I do think for some reason you have targeted Free and are willing to make any argument you can for him being replaced. He played very well last year and Parnell never mounted a serious challenge. Might have never really got a shot after not being healthy during preseason. I am sure that Parnell will get another chance this year and if he is at least comparable, it makes sense to go with him since he is younger and cheaper.
 

gimmesix

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The times I see Free get beat aren't due to him not being big or strong enough. I see him struggle at times keeping proper technique. He sometimes puts himself in poor positions, leaving him unbalanced and easy to push over or through.

That's the main thing he improved last year. Defensive linemen would get him to commit and then beat him before he could reset. Then he appeared to lose complete confidence in his technique and was overcommiting all the time.

Last year, he did a much better job of setting himself to where he could react to inside or outside moves. Not perfectly, but good enough to not be the problem for this team like he was the year before.
 

joseephuss

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I agree. He played better in 2013 than 2012. Every lineman gets beat from time to time and the number of times he got beat went down in 2013. When I do see him get beat it is mostly about technique. It isn't about any lack of size or strength.
 

AbeBeta

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I've said before that Free was "good enough" to win with in 2013. It just irritates me that he does not appear to have worked hard in the weight room.

Some guys can work hard and never look like Tyron. Strong genetic component there. You really can't alter that. Smith is just elite physically. Free does posses good athleticism despite his doughy looks. He isn't strong but when his technique is on, he is solid.
 

AbeBeta

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I agree. He played better in 2013 than 2012. Every lineman gets beat from time to time and the number of times he got beat went down in 2013. When I do see him get beat it is mostly about technique. It isn't about any lack of size or strength.

When he gets beat on technique, he lacks the strength to overcome it. That's not a bad thing. It describes most OL aside from the ones in the probowl. There are also many strong, bad technique guys - but they are more likely to play inside. Smith uses great technique and he's becoming much stronger. Deadly combo
 

jnday

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Free is in his 8th year in the NFL. Muscle Mass is something that should be gained over years, not just one off-season. The more recent the pic of Free, the more it solidifies my contention that he is lacking in upper-body muscle mass now. Most OLinemen should have a bigger upper body after only a couple of years in the NFL if they were not bigger from day 1.

I guess when you've got nothing you can always resort to personal attacks.

The only thing that I might disagree with you on is the olinemen shouldn't be bodybuilders and I had rather have a Larry Allen body for a lineman than a Tyron. I don't mind a Nate body type if the guy can block like Nate. Having a little extra bulk is a big advantage on the line.
 

jnday

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The times I see Free get beat aren't due to him not being big or strong enough. I see him struggle at times keeping proper technique. He sometimes puts himself in poor positions, leaving him unbalanced and easy to push over or through.

He doesn't have the strength to recover from a mistake with bad technique , so he has to be in a good position every play.
 

jday

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Tyron Smith and Doug Free

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Our offensive tackle position is a study in contrast.
 

jrumann59

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Parnell's weakness is upstairs. Physically he has the body it is the mental part of having the technique down and repeating it. He is slow at times out of his stance like he is unsure of where to go or he is thinking about his motions. All things being equal Parnell should be starting, but Free has the experience of playing football for probably 10 years and his technique is honed much more than Parnells.
 

CCBoy

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X, thanks for having golden patience. The Honor Code at the Air Force Academy was: I will not lie, steal, or cheat...nor tolerate those who do.

Sports give some leeway to accepting less than good perspectives, but it's nice to have your continual dig into the real functions going on with the team and it's players. That itself, denotes an intensity and commitment to actual football, and applied NFL knowledge.

To most of us fans, just being able to understand, is satisfying. This is one reason why a fan as myself, is so appreciative of your quality efforts. I genuinely say thanks.

I don't have a sense of inferiority or a complex to just disagree to feel as if I participated in value privileges. I'm in it for the knowledge. And sharing the memories and experiences that I have had in the sport. A big part of my view, is a sense of sportsmanship...and I really don't have a fond attachment to the burn barrel bunch. But as it's said in the movie: 'The Postman,' 'things are getting better all the time.'

I agree with your base statement of upper body mass. If one isn't intensely conditioned, then the only way to move large mass is with a similar mass but situated in the upper body.

Big legs work for a running back type, such as Joe Bellino and his huge calves, or Robert Newhouse's thighs.

Without upper body strength, a player is forced to attempt to move laterally enough to curtain off an opponent. But due to upper body strength, that opponent now just needs to move enough to just overextend a player such as Free, and force a power issue to turn the corner. A faster player with long arms can get around even quicker.

There isn't enough long arms or ability to laterally shuffle to make Free a better candidate than Parcell. Not only contract by being a meet need player has earned Doug Free some functional respect. It hasn't made him a much better player, as you well stated, X.
 

revospeed

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The fact that it is an early picture of Tyron just solidifies the contention of my post. Tyron already had more muscle mass than Free. That's back when Tyron was around 308 pounds, Imagine how much muscle mass he has gained now that he's up near 320.

Free might have had more definition in college than he has in that picture, but that's not my point. He lacks muscle mass.

I posted the 2nd pic to show that Parnell also has bigger arms and more muscle mass than Free. That is particularly interesting because Parnell was a skinny ex-college basketball player that only weighed about 280 when he got to the Cowboys. Now he's hit the weight-room and become much stronger than Free.

I guess I missed the point of your original post then. I thought it was to show that Tyron Smith looked good without his shirt off and Free didn't. Also, Smith wasn't 308 in that picture. USC listed him at 280 in 2010. Usually, if there's skewing of measurables, they don't make linemen lighter. http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/smith_tyron00.html
 

revospeed

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Edit to my previous post: I was wrong about him weighing 280 in that picture. I just looked it up and that picture was taken at his pro day and he weighed 310 then. My mistake.
 

casmith07

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Free is a big man....he may not have the genetics of Smith to have that ripped look, but look at those shoulders and traps. You don't get those eating Cheetos.

I do think for some reason you have targeted Free and are willing to make any argument you can for him being replaced. He played very well last year and Parnell never mounted a serious challenge. Might have never really got a shot after not being healthy during preseason. I am sure that Parnell will get another chance this year and if he is at least comparable, it makes sense to go with him since he is younger and cheaper.

In that picture, Free looks much bigger than in previous years. Perhaps a new workout regimen this offseason has helped him.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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In that picture, Free looks much bigger than in previous years. Perhaps a new workout regimen this offseason has helped him.

So....maybe posting pictures that are 4-5 years old is more about an agenda than about reality?
 

burmafrd

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I think it was X that pointed out how the boys changed a lot of the blocking assignments to help out free last year.
 

burmafrd

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I'm pretty sure I admitted I haven't. It doesn't matter if you have. The guys with decades of experience and who are in a position to make a change have determined Parnell is inferior to Free. Are you a pro scout?

you mean the same bunch that thought Costa was a starting NFL center? Or that scrubs like Nagy and company were going to be solid starters?
 
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