UFC 116: Lesnar vs Carwin

[BrAinPaiNt]

I really enjoy watching MMA. Not a monster fan boy who gets all butt hurt if someone disses this fighter, that fighter or this group vs that group. But that whole thing were people say WAR and a fighters name after it...it really just seems kind of internet ghey.:laugh2:

 

[Rampage]

Lets not act as if Brock is completely untouchable as a wrestler.

You can go back to his WWE days. Brock and Kurt Angle talked trash about who was the better wrestler. One day they finally decided to find out backstage, and by most every account, Kurt completely tooled Brock. Mind you, this was a roided up 300lbs+ version of Brock against a 220lbs man in Angle.

Lets remember something - Cain is a 2x All-American at Arizona State and a JUCO National Champ. Cain has some outstanding amateur credentials.

Even more, he trains daily at AKA with the likes of Koscheck, Fitch, and more importantly, Daniel Cormier. If you do not know who Daniel Cormier is, I suggest a Google search rather quickly.

From the sound of it, this fight will not happen for quite a while. Which means even if you think Cain is that much below Brock in wrestling, that Cain will be able to train with a huge Olympian like Daniel Cormier for many months.

Do not oversell Brock here while undercutting Cain.




The point of my post was to more point out that Brock isn't 'The Terminator' and he isn't some fighter who cannot be stopped. If you read quite a few posts in this thread, and throughout the internet, alot of people are convinced that since Carwin's unmatched power cannot stop Brock, how can he be?

My simple point is - in MMA, if you have flaws, you are beatable. In Brock's case, he is nowhere close to even being a well rounded fighter. He is a huge brute with great wrestling and little else. Until he becomes more well rounded, he is very vulnerable as a fighter. Shane Carwin proved that.

With the rest of your post - I agree about Sylvia. Not so much Arlovski. If you watched the UFC version of Arlovski throughout those years, he really was a well rounded fighter. He actually had a slick ground game. But now he is convinced he is a fantastic striker, while ignoring the fact he has a matchstick chin.

In any case, the UFC marketed those guys as the top of the sport in the HW division. Within just a couple years, Dana was calling them out as bums and telling the world they had no business in the UFC.

It's the flavor of the week in the UFC. It happens quite often.

Still waiting on Phillipe Nover to become Anderson Silva.

well #1 Angle was on the juice too if you disdn't already know.

#2 nobody has proof of this other than he said,she said

#3 Cain has never won a gold medal in wrestling.

this was your question, don't try and change it now

I shouldn't have to explain to you how this works, the original answer was before you decided to redefine the question, yes or no?

i'm sorry I wasn't more specific to begin with. hate on Brock hater
http://img25.*************/img25/9056/lesnardog.gif

 

[DemonBlood]

I really enjoy watching MMA. Not a monster fan boy who gets all butt hurt if someone disses this fighter, that fighter or this group vs that group. But that whole thing were people say WAR and a fighters name after it...it really just seems kind of internet ghey.:laugh2:

Why do you hate America?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Why do you hate America?

Cause too many people are wasting my oxygen. :

 

[InmanRoshi]

Lets not act as if Brock is completely untouchable as a wrestler.

Frankly Carwin was handling his Brock's shoots rather easily, and counter attacking like a mofo, until he was so spent he could barely move.

The point of my post was to more point out that Brock isn't 'The Terminator' and he isn't some fighter who cannot be stopped. If you read quite a few posts in this thread, and throughout the internet, alot of people are convinced that since Carwin's unmatched power cannot stop Brock, how can he be?

My simple point is - in MMA, if you have flaws, you are beatable. In Brock's case, he is nowhere close to even being a well rounded fighter. He is a huge brute with great wrestling and little else. Until he becomes more well rounded, he is very vulnerable as a fighter. Shane Carwin proved that.

That's pretty much where I stand too. I actually don't have a problem with Brock. I think all in all he's not a bad guy, and a lot of his trash talking is the residual effects of his WWE days where you're instilled with the principles of promotion and creating a spectacle. I listened to his interview on Bill Simmons podcast and was impressed with how humble and forthcoming he was, and I got the same impression from his post fight speeches and PC on Saturday.


My problem is with the Brock Fans who proclaim he's invincible after a fight where Brock was dominated pretty thoroughly for 95% of the fight and could have easily been stopped (I'm not saying it should have been stopped, just saying I've seen a lot of fights stopped for less). A different referee on the same night and Brock goes from "invincible" to "most overhyped fighter in MMA".


Carwin is novice to the big stage, and he obviously suffered a huge adreneline dump when he had the champ down. He admitted he could barely move his legs for the 2nd round (He actually tagged Brock with a clean right before Brock took him down in 2nd, he was just too gassed to have anything behind it). It's hard to even judge Brock's performance ... he was either turtled up in the 1st or wrestling with a human sandbag in the 2nd. The only thing Brock definitively proved in the fight is he doesn't have a weak chin and he has pretty phenomenal conditioning for a man of his mass (although we kind already knew that from the Mir fights).

 

[zrinkill]

it really just seems kind of internet ghey.:laugh2:

Leave that poster out of this ......

 

[Ren]

i'm sorry I wasn't more specific to begin with. hate on Brock hater
http://img25.*************/img25/9056/lesnardog.gif

I don't hate him nearly as much as i hate Brock fans who try to re-write MMA history and the laws of physics to make him seem more awesome then he actually is

 

[DemonBlood]

Leave that poster out of this ......

Go back to the WWF threads.

 

[Rampage]

I don't hate him nearly as much as i hate Brock fans who try to re-write MMA history and the laws of physics to make him seem more awesome then he actually is

am I one of those fans? If so what did I say to try to rewrite mma history or the laws of physics?


oh and to the hippie and the homer WAR saying WAR!

 

[Ren]

am I one of those fans? If so what did I say to try to rewrite mma history or the laws of physics?

nope, that wasn't aimed at you

Just explaining why i don't like Brock or to be more specific why i hate the Brock hype

 

[Rampage]

nope, that wasn't aimed at you

Just explaining why i don't like Brock or to be more specific why i hate the Brock hype

no doubt.

 

[zrinkill]

Go back to the WWF threads.

I was not talking about you "demonblood"

:laugh2:

But its kinda telling that you assumed I was.

 

[DemonBlood]

I was not talking about you "demonblood"

:laugh2:

But its kinda telling that you assumed I was.

You win this time "zrinkill" but I'll be back!

 

[zrinkill]

You win this time "zrinkill" but I'll be back!

Don't mind me .....

My little sisters birthday is tomorrow and I have been in a foul mood all week.

 

[BigWillie]

well #1 Angle was on the juice too if you disdn't already know.

#2 nobody has proof of this other than he said,she said

#3 Cain has never won a gold medal in wrestling.

1.) And ..?

2.) More than a few have discussed this in the past. Kurt and Brock both have admitted it happened, and the only difference in the stories is that Brock says he was not completely dominated.

3.) And ..?

[youtube]5hfYJsQAhl0[/youtube]

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Coleman never fought anyone his own size back then look it up, look up who he fought and their size compared to him. Size wize he had the same advantage because his opponents where smaller, hence the comparison. Not to mention that the way in which Brock has won his fights has been VERY much the same as the way Coleman won his early fights. Coleman looked like a freak next to his opponents, remind you of anyone?

I'm looking at it now. He fought back then at HW and I'm sure he fought in the 250-265 pound range at all times.

So one of his early opponents then was Gary Goodridge who fought at 250 (According to the bio I found online for him), Don Frye who it says fought between 220 and 230 (so Coleman obviously had him by a good 20-30 pounds), and Dan Severn who fought at between 250-260 during his UFC run and Scott Ferrozzo, who I don't even remember but the only bio I can find says he fought was 320 pounds (which I guess that far back was allowed before they had the 265 HW limit). Of course the problem with the only bio I found for him also doesn't even list his fight and loss to Coleman. It shows him with a 4-2 record with losses to Jerry Bohlander and Vito Belfort before retiring.

Those are 4 of his first 7 opponents he faced when he walked into UFC and ran of 7 straight wins and everyone thought he was a machine.

The other 3 opponents during that machine run, where he won his first 2 tournaments, as we all remember who watched UFC back then it was tournament style back then, were much smaller than him.

So I do see your comparison better, though I honestly didn't remember him being freakshow larger than most of his opponents like Brock, but he was significantly bigger than a few of his early opponents.




This is as much as i bothered to read, I was asked to name someone as big as Brock who was a good striker and i did, you denying that?
Adding new criteria to the question after it has been answered doesn't make the original answer to the original question any less correct and you're an idiot if you think that's how it works

Where in that question do you see anything about body type, point it out to me pleas... can't do it can you?

Uh sure. Ok man. If you really needed him to hold your hand and point out exactly what he was talking about then that's your business.

I think it was pretty clear from his question, although maybe not maybe he needed to be very specific to avoid confusion, that he wanted you to find a guy like Brock.

To me if someone asks that question they're not looking for someone who can step on the scale and weigh as much as Brock.

Hell in that case I'm the same size as Brock cause I weigh in the same area right now. But only a crazy person would ever try and proclaim me the same physical size cause we weigh the same. I'm in the same ball field weight wise but I'm no where NEAR the same planet as him when it comes to actual size and physical stature.

It doesn't matter either way I don't guess. People getting nitpicky over nothing I guess, all of us are.

well #1 Angle was on the juice too if you disdn't already know.

#2 nobody has proof of this other than he said,she said

#3 Cain has never won a gold medal in wrestling.

i'm sorry I wasn't more specific to begin with. hate on Brock hater
http://img25.*************/img25/9056/lesnardog.gif

I agree. I couldn't care less what supposedly happened in a friendly round of wrestling backstage at a WWE show.

It's alot different to step in that cage and do it then it would be backstage at a WWF show.

Not to mention that the comparison is terrible either way. Angle is a gold medalist in wrestling. Cain, while he's no doubt accomplished things in wrestling, isn't even in the same league as Angle when it comes to wrestling. It's a terrible comparison.

I don't hate him nearly as much as i hate Brock fans who try to re-write MMA history and the laws of physics to make him seem more awesome then he actually is

Whose honestly re-writing history here? I haven't seen anyone proclaim him the best of all time or anything. I've seen some folks say he's the best HW in the world today, and people could make a case for that right now given that Fedor lost.

But what does today have to do with anyone saying he's the best ever or something?

 

[Ren]

Uh sure. Ok man. If you really needed him to hold your hand and point out exactly what he was talking about then that's your business.

Ahh the good old "yes but",.. answer
Pretty much saying you where wrong but you're to proud to admit it :laugh2:

 

[CATCH17]

Don't call my name dont call my name Alejandroooo.

 

[casmith07]

Sad day when CowboysZone posters have more knowledge of MMA than football :laugh1:

 

[Rampage]

former k1/Pride heavyweight Mark Hunt has signed a 3 fight deal with the UFC. also word is referee Big John McCarthy is back in the UFC and will be reffing the card on the Versus network.