UFC 116: Lesnar vs Carwin

[Rampage]

Fedor is only a part time member of the division at this point, the only thing of any relevance he's done in the last 2 years is to catapult Werdum into contention. That and he has a recent loss means he's not at the top and shouldn't be at the top any more



No, Fedor is a way better puncher then Carwin

so you're saying Brock and his 5 wins is the #1 hw in mma?

 

[zrinkill]

so you're saying Brock and his 5 wins is the #1 hw in mma?

Yes .....

 

[zrinkill]

Oh yeah, Brock never said that to Kenny? He said exactly what I said word for word...Here is the interview:

http://sherdogblog.craveonline.com:80/blog/2010-07-06#25498

I will listen too that when I get home ..... but I see you left out the word "second" in your most likely very biased opinion on what was said.

 

[Ren]

so you're saying Brock and his 5 wins is the #1 hw in mma?

Who else would be?

Fedor is coming off a loss he needs to at least beat a contender to be ranked #1 now and it's not even certain he'll fight again, he wants to get into Russian politics

I'm not denying his skill what i'm saying is his recent results don't warrant a #1 ranking

 

[Rampage]

Who else would be?

Fedor is coming off a loss he needs to at least beat a contender to be ranked #1 now and it's not even certain he'll fight again, he wants to get into Russian politics

I'm not denying his skill what i'm saying is his recent results don't warrant a #1 ranking

guess we agree to disagree. also that Fedor and politics crap was just a rumor. Scott Coker also said Fedor vs Overeem is still a possibility. If Brock is the #1 HW(and I'm a huge Lesnar fan) than the hw still has a loooooooong way to go.

 

[CATCH17]

guess we agree to disagree. also that Fedor and politics crap was just a rumor. Scott Coker also said Fedor vs Overeem is still a possibility. If Brock is the #1 HW(and I'm a huge Lesnar fan) than the hw still has a loooooooong way to go.

Brock is no lower than 2 and recent results would have to make him 1.

 

[Rampage]

this was taken from an article regarding the whole Fedor and his competition thing.



Of course, when those guys move on, as Andrei Arlovski did, exiting the UFC on a three-fight winning streak, then they become total nonentities.

Apparently it doesn't even matter that Arlovski added knockout victories over Ben Rothwell and Roy Nelson – the latter of whom is one win away from a UFC heavyweight title shot, according to White – before taking on Emelianenko. The mere fact that he was no longer a UFC fighter at the time seems to have made him worthless as an opponent by the time Emelianenko starched him in the first round.

It also doesn't seem to matter that Fedor was slated to take on Josh Barnett – then a top-five heavyweight – before Barnett's steroid debacle derailed the fight. Nor does it matter that not so long ago Emelianenko was aiming for a fight with Randy Couture – then the UFC heavyweight champ – before White and his team of lawyers put the kibosh on it.

Nope, all that matters is that Fedor won't fight the best. Though since the best are confined exclusively to the UFC, at least in White's mind, that's a little like criticizing Georges St. Pierre for fighting Dan Hardy instead of Jake Shields or Nick Diaz.

That's not to say that Emelianenko is beyond reproach. His record does feature such MMA punchlines as Hong Man Choi and Zuluzinho, with middleweight Matt Lindland sandwiched in there for good measure. And yes, his M-1 Global management team has at times seemed like a barrier between Fedor and the dream fights that fans want to see. There's no denying any of that.

At the same time, one surprising loss doesn't cancel out everything else he's accomplished in the sport. He beat Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic back when the Croatian (whose abilities White claims to respect now) was in his prime. He beat Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira twice. Doing so once, and against a declining version of the old "Minotauro," was enough to earn Cain Velasquez an impending title shot in the UFC.

And then there's Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin, who have about half as many fights between the two of them as Emelianenko does in his storied career. Neither of them have faced the kind of steady diet of high-quality competition that Emelianenko did in his Pride days. At least not yet.

That's not a knock on them. They have, after all, faced the best available to them in the time available to them. But, with the possible exception of the Alistair Overeem bout, which still has yet to materialize, didn't Fedor do the same? Didn't he beat everyone he could possibly get in the ring with, and didn't he at least make an honest effort at getting in the ring with a few others?

 

[zrinkill]

guess we agree to disagree. also that Fedor and politics crap was just a rumor. Scott Coker also said Fedor vs Overeem is still a possibility. If Brock is the #1 HW(and I'm a huge Lesnar fan) than the hw still has a loooooooong way to go.

Brock has beat 2 former ufc heavy weight champions and 2 interim heavy weight champions in those 6 fights.


Fedor has fought Tim Sylvia and Crop Top and about 30 other guys who Brock would beat the **** out of. And was beat by a European Jiu-Jitsu champion.

 

[CATCH17]

this was taken from an article regarding the whole Fedor and his competition thing.



Of course, when those guys move on, as Andrei Arlovski did, exiting the UFC on a three-fight winning streak, then they become total nonentities.

Apparently it doesn't even matter that Arlovski added knockout victories over Ben Rothwell and Roy Nelson – the latter of whom is one win away from a UFC heavyweight title shot, according to White – before taking on Emelianenko. The mere fact that he was no longer a UFC fighter at the time seems to have made him worthless as an opponent by the time Emelianenko starched him in the first round.

It also doesn't seem to matter that Fedor was slated to take on Josh Barnett – then a top-five heavyweight – before Barnett's steroid debacle derailed the fight. Nor does it matter that not so long ago Emelianenko was aiming for a fight with Randy Couture – then the UFC heavyweight champ – before White and his team of lawyers put the kibosh on it.

Nope, all that matters is that Fedor won't fight the best. Though since the best are confined exclusively to the UFC, at least in White's mind, that's a little like criticizing Georges St. Pierre for fighting Dan Hardy instead of Jake Shields or Nick Diaz.

That's not to say that Emelianenko is beyond reproach. His record does feature such MMA punchlines as Hong Man Choi and Zuluzinho, with middleweight Matt Lindland sandwiched in there for good measure. And yes, his M-1 Global management team has at times seemed like a barrier between Fedor and the dream fights that fans want to see. There's no denying any of that.

At the same time, one surprising loss doesn't cancel out everything else he's accomplished in the sport. He beat Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic back when the Croatian (whose abilities White claims to respect now) was in his prime. He beat Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira twice. Doing so once, and against a declining version of the old "Minotauro," was enough to earn Cain Velasquez an impending title shot in the UFC.

And then there's Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin, who have about half as many fights between the two of them as Emelianenko does in his storied career. Neither of them have faced the kind of steady diet of high-quality competition that Emelianenko did in his Pride days. At least not yet.

That's not a knock on them. They have, after all, faced the best available to them in the time available to them. But, with the possible exception of the Alistair Overeem bout, which still has yet to materialize, didn't Fedor do the same? Didn't he beat everyone he could possibly get in the ring with, and didn't he at least make an honest effort at getting in the ring with a few others?

What have you done for me lately Fedor?

Oh yeah....


I can't see Fedor stuffing Lesnar's take downs enough to win the fight.

 

[Ren]

Brock has beat 2 former ufc heavy weight champions and 2 interim heavy weight champions in those 6 fights.


Fedor has fought Tim Sylvia and Crop Top and about 30 other guys who Brock would beat the **** out of. And was beat by a European Jiu-Jitsu champion.

List of Former champions Fedor has beaten

Mark Coleman Former HW UFC champ, and 2 time UFC champ back when it was a tournament
Tim Silvia Former UFC HW champ
Arlovski Former UFC HW champ
Kevin Radleman Former UFC HW champ
Big Nog twice former Pride HW champ and interim UFC champ
Semmi Schilt 4 time K-1 world GP champ and 2 time K-1 Super heavy weight champ
Mark Hunt 2001 K-1 world GP champ
Crocop (in his prime) 2006 Pride open weight GP champion

This is only a small portion of Fedors carer, but somehow Brock's 5 wins are more impressive then this?
With the exception of Arlovski and Silvia Fedor beat most of these guys in their prime, your assumption that Brock could is purely wishful thinking, Brock has A LOT to prove still if he wants to be compared to the Greatest HW MMA fighter ever, lets see him go 5-6 years without losing first... (Fedor went 10)

:laugh2:

 

[CATCH17]

List of Former champions Fedor has beaten

Mark Coleman Former HW UFC champ, and 2 time UFC champ back when it was a tournament
Tim Silvia Former UFC HW champ
Arlovski Former UFC HW champ
Kevin Radleman Former UFC HW champ
Big Nog twice former Pride HW champ and interim UFC champ
Semmi Schilt 4 time K-1 world GP champ and 2 time K-1 Super heavy weight champ
Mark Hunt 2001 K-1 world GP champ
Crocop (in his prime) 2006 Pride open weight GP champion

This is only a small portion of Fedors carer, but somehow Brock's 5 wins are more impressive then this?
With the exception of Arlovski and Silvia Fedor beat most of these guys in their prime, your assumption that Brock could is purely wishful thinking, Brock has A LOT to prove still if he wants to be compared to the Greatest HW MMA fighter ever, lets see him go 5-6 years without losing first... (Fedor went 10)

:laugh2:

Who cares?

Nobody is saying Brock is as skilled as Fedor. Brock isn't even as skilled as Mir.

But if Brock and Fedor step in the cage, in a fight, Lesnar is going to win the fight unless Fedor gets a lucky submission somehow.

The fact that the 2 are so close right now and Lesnar still being extremely young in his career should tell you who the better fighter is.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Lesner is getting is *** handed to him here in the 1st round.

I'm loving it!

I'm guessing you didn't love the 2nd round nearly as much.

LOL

Suck it you haters!!!!!!!

That's exactly what I said the moment he submited Carwin.

Don't get me wrong I really like Carwin to, he's fun to watch, but I was definately going for Brock in this fight.

Carwin had his chance but couldn't get finish.

He had Brock rocked to the core and just wasn't connecting enough to get the ref to step in.

Exactly.

Those folks wanting it stopped I can see why they did, they often do stop fights when a guy just lays there and covers up.

I think there is one small thing Brock did, however, that kept that from happening. A couple of times he simply reached up and grabbed at the arms, to try and stop some stuff, showing that he was intending to try and defend himself. I think that little bit of arm move kept the ref from every thinking about stopping it.

And heres the other thing. Instead of worrying about what the ref did wrong how about worrying about what Carwin did wrong. At that point it would have been to his advantage, since he clearly wasn't landing too many good shots to Lesnars head on the ground, and was mainly hitting Lesnars huge arms, to simply stand up and make Brock get back up.

Instead he tried to bull his way into a G&P victory and gassed himself.

Yes, really.

He didn't use brute strength he used an actual grappling move for the win.

He couldn't just bowl over Carwin like he did Mir and others.

He used his size and strength to tighten that hold into the point where Carwin had to tap and to hold Carwin in the position in the first place.

But also credit a big part of that to Carwin being gassed as well. There is no doubt that Carwin gassed himself.

Bottom line, if Lesnar gets you on the ground and gains position, you are in big trouble. His strength and sheer size and hard to overcome. Carwin was gassed after round 1.

Brock is going to be tough for anyone and everyone who he gets on the ground and is on top of. He's just so big and strong that it will be very hard to control or stop Brock.

I'm gonna admit. I didn't like Brock because he was still in WWE mode after his last win.

MMA from what I have seen is about being respectful for the man across from you.

I don't care how much **** talk is thrown back and forth, I thought Brock disregarded the respect aspect after his last match. Likely that Mir would have done the same and I don't like him either.

Seeing Brock come out and show a little more respect makes it a little easier to root for the guy.

I think the Mir stuff was nothing more than because Mir talked so much junk prior to the fight, and pretty much disrespected Brock in every way possible. Saying he couldn't punch hard, couldn't hurt him, and even going so far as to stop during interviews to tell Brock he'd explain to him later what it was he's talking about since he doesn't know MMA.

Mir brought that reaction on by running his mouth. Brock didn't act like that toward Herring or Couture.

I think it would go worse for Carwin next time.

Brock came out and thought he could trade blows in this match ...... he quickly learned he could not match Carwin in a punch out.

So he went back to ground and pound ..... and then submitted him.

If they fight again .... Brock will not be dumb enough to try and fight him upright.

I think that could be the case as well. I believe Carwin had his best shot Saturday and blew it. I can't imagine Brock will make any real attempt to stand with him in a second fight. He'll take a totally different approach and I think it would be even more troubling for Carwin.

How in the heck do you train under Greg Jackson and have the cardio of a 85 year old guy with emphysema?

One thing about it - if Shane ever gets his cardio down, no one, including Brock, wants a piece of that guy.

Brock was incredibly, incredibly lucky that fight did not get stopped. I know, he was covering up. But even still, that's a position where quite a few refs stop the fight because the fighter is not moving to intelligently defend himself. Just laying there absorbing punishment in one position is not defending yourself.

Another thing - Brock's striking showed as I assumed it would. Only one time did I see him even attempt to change a level, and it was half-hearted at that. Guy really, really needs to refine his striking because he will not always be as lucky as he was tonight. His ginormous head saved him tonight.

Cain and Brock is interesting. Cain is basically a 240lbs version of Carwin, except that Cain has shown he can go all day with his cardio. Can Cain somehow keep it off the ground? If he can, the fight becomes really, really interesting and will likely favor Cain.

Cain won't be able to keep it off the ground. He'll basically have the exact same trouble Mir did in keeping it off the ground, which is to say he can't.

I don't care what anyone says, Lesnar is scary. How many guys could weather those kinds of punches? Carwin is a puncher and when he couldn't put Brock away in the 1st I knew he was in big trouble.

Once Brock got the take down and was on top. I knew it was over. I suspected it would be ground and pound, but Brock was too worn from the beating he took in the 1st. I knew he was going to submit him. That was a fun fight.

I'd like to see a rematch.

Cain Velazquez is next. I like him, but he doesn't punch like Carwin and I think he will be in trouble. Lesnar is just a monster.

Cool to see him show some humility after the fight.

Good post. I liked the humility as well.

:laugh2:

If Brock takes you down, including Fedor, it's over.

He just beat the only guy who can match him physically after a year layoff.

It's over now. The best Heavyweight in the world is Brock Lesnar.

I think he's certainly one of the top 2 HWs in the world. I wouldn't argue against him at 1 but I can't say that I wouldn't give Werdum a serious look for that right now just based off the fact that he did beat the guy whose been the #1 HW for a long time. I wouldn't be opposed to some ranking Werdum #1.

Fight should have been stopped in the first. Brock has shown the world he can't hang with strikers on his feet. He look's so awkward when he is standing and striking. Dude really needs to just train striking for awhile and forget training wrestling. If he doesn't improve his striking he better shoot for a takedown at the start of every fight or he will get knocked out by someone with better cardio then Shane.

I doubt that. The cardio isn't the only problem other fighters will have. There isn't anyone in the HW's in UFC right that is going to hit as hard as Carwin so they're likely not going to test his chin like anyone else. The other problem is that there aren't too many other HWs in the world that are as big as Carwin. Without that size, to stuff some take downs, the smaller guys are going to be taken down and thus completely take away their chance to catch him with their stand up striking.

Hilarious. So fighters that have had their fights stopped for much less should be pissed then? You know, because maybe if the refs let them get pounded on for a few more minutes they could have got saved by the bell? They then could have maybe regain their composure in the corner, shook the cobwebs out of their heads and then maybe they could have stole a win from the jaws of defeat? :laugh2:

If Lesnar hadn't reached up with his arms a couple of times I do think the ref might of stopped it. But by reaching up like that a couple of times, and then going back to covering up, and then reaching up, kept the ref from stopping it.

Carwin should have did the smart thing and got back up, made Brock get back up, and went after him then. Instead he gassed himself punching Brock's arms.

:laugh2: Of course that's what he is saying now. In the locker room right after the fight he said exactly what I said he said to Kenny Florian who was doing the interview. "I'll just let him go" hilarious. More like "I don't know what to do when I get hit so i'll just run backwards into the cage and crumble to the floor in a fetal position."

Saying now? That's exactly what he said in the post fight interview in the middle of the octagon. It has nothing to do with what he's saying now. What they posted up there were his comments immediately following the fight while still standing in the octagon.

Cain doesn't stand a chance.

He can't match up with Brock physically + Brock knocked off the ring rust last night.

The only reason Carwin stood a chance is because he is a bull himself.

If Brock gets on top of you it's over. Even if your name is Fedor.

Cain will have a very difficult time for sure. As will any HW who isn't 270 pounds or bigger with great wrestling and takedown defense.

Here's what he said.

"This isn't about me tonight," said Lesnar, who made his first appearance in nearly a year. "This is about my family. This is about my doctors. This is about my training partners, my training staff. I am blessed by God. Ladies and gentlemen, I stand before you a humble champion. And I'm still the toughest SOB around, baby."

I thought it was the best way for him to put all of it after that. I found it very cool that he mentioned everything the way he did.

guys, Carwin(a 270 pound man) has never let an opponent out of the 1st round. he hurt Lesnar like he has all his other opponents and proceeded to give everything he had for 3 and a half minutes to try and finish him off. If any of you have a punching bag go punch it with everything you have for 3 and a half minutes without stopping. then rest for 1 minute and start doing it again and tell me you seriously aren't gassed.

Exactly. Being that big if you just throw everything you've got for 3 solid minutes you're going to be pretty tired.

Of course your average person will be gassed, but if you're a professional fighter you should be able to do that just fine.
We used to have a very similar drill back when i did muay thai at the end of every work out, go all out for 3x 3min with 30 sec rest in between. Do that at the end of every workout and over time you should get trough at the very least round 1 fairly easily. It's really no excuse for professional fighters at that level to be that gassed after 1 round unless you're on the receiving end of it.

How big are you? People can argue that all they want but size makes a huge difference in that stuff. It's very rare that anyone as big as those guys that can go all out like that and still not be gassed. That's a lot of mass for those guys to carry around and will gas a guy a heck of a lot quicker.

This coming from the guy who just said Brock was the best in MMA



Shogun, as well as quite a few others in the LHW division, better fighters then Brock
Silva, MUCH better fighter then Brock
GSP, MUCH better fighter then Brock
Penn, even without a belt, much better fighter then Brock


Brock is the best HW in MMA right now but let's be real here some of these guys have more title defenses then Brock has fights, Brock has a long way to go before he's the best in the biz

Maybe the best HW right now, I can see people making others #1 as I said before, but I do agree that he isn't the best in MMA overall. There are several guys, and I agree with the guys you mentioned up there, who are much better PFP canidates and such, IMO.

I boxed as a kid and I agree. If you watch the fight it is obvious some of his punches had no power left in them after about 3 minutes of that fight. Heck at 2 minutes in you see a lot less power. The elbows however, were vicious. I think he needed one of those to end the fight. When it didn't, he was in trouble.

One last note, int he 1st round they did not touch gloves. They did in the 2nd. I think Brock respected him for beating him like that and I think he respected Brock for taking that beating.

Yeah that was really cool. The way Brock was smiling about it coming out. You could tell he was definately respectful and impressed with the power Carwin has and Carwin was impressed, probably shocked even, that Brock weathered all he had.

Isnt Carwin a way better puncher than Fedor?

If Carwin couldnt finish him who can?

Not at all. He probably has more power than Fedor but Fedor is a much more skilled striker. That isn't even close, IMO.

I remember years ago when Arlovski was the UFC champ - Dana, Joe and more importantly, UFC fans everywhere questioned how could he be stopped? He had excellent standup, he had a good ground game. He was THE complete fighter who could not be stopped.

Then barely 2 years after he lost his belt to Sylvia, he was a bum and did not deserve to be in the UFC.

Ricco Rodriguez was that guy.

Randy Couture was that guy.

Frank Mir was that guy.

The list goes on and on of guys who people claim cannot be defeated as heavyweights, until they get defeated. Then they are JAG.

You could say GSP was unbeatable with his superior wrestling and striking - until Serra tested his chin.

Machida's defense was unparalled and no one could touch him. Until Shogun showed that high level Muay Thai can slow down anyone.

BJ Penn was reinvigorated and in-shape so he could not be beat, until Frankie Edgar out-pointed him.

This beating Lesnar took reminds me of the frenzy that came after Randleman dropped Fedor on his neck/head.

[youtube]5K0OJ6-aauo[/youtube]

If you have never seen it, or cannot watch this video - Randleman has Fedor around the waist from his back while standing. Randleman suplexes Fedor in the air and literally drops Fedor on his neck/head.

It was a miracle he didn't knock Fedor out, much less break his neck. What made this legendary is that within 30 seconds of this happening Fedor went from the bottom to switching Randleman and getting top position. He then proceeded to sink a kimura and end the fight very quickly.

Now though, Fedor is washed up, and Brock is the flavor of the week.

It's the cycle of MMA.

Do I buy into the Lesnar hype? No. His last fight proved he has the ability to recover, but it also proved he still has flaws, and flaws that he has not corrected yet. Going into the fight Brock wanted to talk about his improved striking, but yet it looked awful still.

"But if Carwin cannot stop him, who can?"

Well, I'm going to ask you - if Fedor can lay inside the guard of Nog for 20 minutes, how the heck is Werdum going to catch him?

'Ish' happens. It's MMA. If someone catches Brock more cleanly than Carwin was able to, what is going to stop the fight from ending? For example, the elbow Carwin dropped. Brock was able to slightly deflect that elbow with his hand on it's way down. If he had not, do you think Brock takes that elbow cleanly to the chin and continues on?

Brock is a UNBELIEVABLY talented fighter in certain areas. But he is also EXTREMELY flawed in certain areas. Those flaws make him vulnerable regardless of any Ivan Drago hype he has on him.

I get what you're saying but is that whole post intended to point out that Lesnar has flaws? I mean every fighter has flaws that can make them vulnerable and get them beat.

That fight with Randleman and Fedor was sick though. I've always thought that was pretty tough of Fedor to comeback from that slam and just quickly submit Randleman. That was impressive.


As for Tim and Arlovski you can count me out of the group that was ever impressed by them, especially Tim. I always, always, always thought Tim was a product of an extremely weak division at the time he was champ in UFC. He's an average, at best, fighter.

It's why I don't give Fedor much credit for those two wins. I wouldn't have given him much if he'd beaten either one of those two in their prime runs in UFC cause they were both extremely over-rated and average.

Tim even more so now is nothing so Fedor beating him just isn't impressive to me at this point.

List of Former champions Fedor has beaten

Mark Coleman Former HW UFC champ, and 2 time UFC champ back when it was a tournament
Tim Silvia Former UFC HW champ
Arlovski Former UFC HW champ
Kevin Radleman Former UFC HW champ
Big Nog twice former Pride HW champ and interim UFC champ
Semmi Schilt 4 time K-1 world GP champ and 2 time K-1 Super heavy weight champ
Mark Hunt 2001 K-1 world GP champ
Crocop (in his prime) 2006 Pride open weight GP champion

This is only a small portion of Fedors carer, but somehow Brock's 5 wins are more impressive then this?
With the exception of Arlovski and Silvia Fedor beat most of these guys in their prime, your assumption that Brock could is purely wishful thinking, Brock has A LOT to prove still if he wants to be compared to the Greatest HW MMA fighter ever, lets see him go 5-6 years without losing first... (Fedor went 10)

:laugh2:

I can't imagine anyone is saying Fedor hasn't done great things over his career. No one, including myself, is saying that Fedor has never fought top flight competition, or never deserved to be number one, just that in the last few years he's not fought anything even remotely resembling what I'd consider top competition. To me his best competition was last fought in PRIDE and since it closed he hasn't fought anyone who'd crack the top 10 in the HW division in the last few years. Tim? He was a joke when he was in his prime. Arlovski? Way over hyped because he beat an extremely over hyped, and average, Tim Sylvia.

Brett Rogers? Please. The guy is barely a few steps above Kimbo slice. Werdum is the best, most respectable, fighter (IMO anyway) that he's fought since PRIDE closed down and he got beaten by him.

And I don't think Werdum is better than several other guys that Fedor could have been fighting if not for his trash partnership with that M-1 company.

I'd like to see Fedor win his next fight, get out of Strikeforce, and come over to UFC cause there are still several fights I'd like to see him have there that I still think, even with that loss for him recently, would be huge draws and great fights.

 

[Ren]

Who cares?

Nobody is saying Brock is as skilled as Fedor. Brock isn't even as skilled as Mir.

But if Brock and Fedor step in the cage, in a fight, Lesnar is going to win the fight unless Fedor gets a lucky submission somehow.

The fact that the 2 are so close right now and Lesnar still being extremely young in his career should tell you who the better fighter is.

Fedor is much better on his feet then anyone Brock has faced including Carwin if Fedor where to land a clean shot on Brock the fight would be over. Fedor is the most accurate HW in MMA so when you consider that almost every fighter Brock has faced has been able to hit him Fedor wouldn't have to much trouble doing that either. Brock's only shot would be to get on top of Fedor and even then Fedor has proved time and time again he can escape just about anything

Skill wise they're not close at all. Brock is an extremely raw fighter at this point and with his still very glaring weaknesses he doesn't match up well with Fedor at all since it plays right into Fedors strengths

10 years of dominance vs 5 wins should tell you who the better fighter is. Brocks future looks a lot brighter then Fedors does but that has more to do with Fedor carer winding down and Brock just starting out.

As of right now Brock is just another in a long line of UFC champ, he's yet to prove he's any more special the a lot of the champs that came and went before him. it's not like he's re-writing history or anything with his 2 title defenses, many have done that and better before him. If he was to retire today he'd be nothing more then a footnote in MMA history, Brock has A LOT to prove still.

Brock reminds me a lot of Coleman back in the early days, Coleman looked unstoppable he had everyone beat on both size and power and was an excellent wrestler. Then along comes Maurice Smith a guy with a sub .500 carer record and made him look stupid, he was never the same after that.
A lot of people who have followed MMA for a long time are rightfully skeptical of him still because we've seen fighters with a lot of potential come and go before. Brock isn't threading any new ground, lots of fighters have done this before him. And a lot of them looked better then Brock has as well.

It's very hard to judge improvement with Brock because of his style but one thing is very clear, his standup hasn't improved much. That would worry me if i was a Brock fan. I can see him beating Velasquez but someone like Junior Dos Santos would give him a lot of problems.
That's the biggest difference between say a Fedor and Brock, Fedor doesn't really match up poorly with any style Brock does

 

[zrinkill]

Brock has A LOT to prove still.

It would never be enough for you ..... you predict him to get crushed in every fight.

If he beat Fedor ..... you would come up with another excuse .....

 

[InmanRoshi]

Everyone wants to see Brock/Fedor, I want to see Overreem/Brock. Brock's standup is atrocious and a world class kickboxer like Overreem wouldn't just tire himself out punching Brock's face like Carwin (basically a 1 trick pony and hardly a great overall fighter) did. Overreem just completely manhandled Rogers, who is the same size as Brock.

 

[CATCH17]

Fedor is much better on his feet then anyone Brock has faced including Carwin if Fedor where to land a clean shot on Brock the fight would be over. Fedor is the most accurate HW in MMA so when you consider that almost every fighter Brock has faced has been able to hit him Fedor wouldn't have to much trouble doing that either. Brock's only shot would be to get on top of Fedor and even then Fedor has proved time and time again he can escape just about anything

I doubt it. If Carwin can't knock him out than it would take a lucky punch from Fedor to do it.

Not arguing the Fedor isn't a better striker. He is the best technical heavyweight out there. But his striking isn't going to beat Brock.


It will just leave him open to get took down and beat.

Plus, Lesnar's Boxing may not be world class, but if he touches you than you're hitting the mat.

He has the mother of all right hands in MMA right now.

 

[Ren]

It would never be enough for you .....

If anyone wants to compare him to some of the greats in the sport like you seem to want then 5 wins is not nearly enough, all personal feeling aside.
If/when he gets up to 10-15 fights and is still at the top then it's time to start that debate, until then Brock has a lot to prove if you want to put him next to the all time greats.
That's not me hating on Brock any non fanboy will tell you the exact same thing i am

 

[Ren]

I doubt it. If Carwin can't knock him out than it would take a lucky punch from Fedor to do it.

Not arguing the Fedor isn't a better striker. He is the best technical heavyweight out there. But his striking isn't going to beat Brock.


It will just leave him open to get took down and beat.

Plus, Lesnar's Boxing may not be world class, but if he touches you than you're hitting the mat.

He has the mother of all right hands in MMA right now.

Striking is exactly what's going to beat Brock his standup is not very good, no one is going to out wrestle him any time soon though unless king kong or Godzilla starts doing MMA.
Fedor is a much better striker then Carwin how much power each have in those shots is impossible to tell but accuracy can make up for power and Fedor is as accurate as it gets

 

[CATCH17]

Striking is exactly what's going to beat Brock his standup is not very good, no one is going to out wrestle him any time soon though unless king kong or Godzilla starts doing MMA.
Fedor is a much better striker then Carwin how much power each have in those shots is impossible to tell but accuracy can make up for power and Fedor is as accurate as it gets

Brocks stand up will get better over time.

By the time Fedor man's up and joins the UFC it wont matter.

 

[Ren]

Brocks stand up will get better over time.

By the time Fedor man's up and joins the UFC it wont matter.

I haven't seen any improvement in the fights he's had what makes you think that's going to all of a sudden change?