UFC 190

[TellerMorrow34]

Brock Lesnar had no skill and he was the Heavyweight Champ.

Actually Brock has wrestling skill.

To pretend that he didn't is beyond absurd and makes it extremely difficult to take anything else you'd say serious on the subject of MMA.

He's a National Championship level wrestler so, yeah, he had skill in one of the foundations of MMA.

 

[CATCH17]

Actually Brock has wrestling skill.

To pretend that he didn't is beyond absurd and makes it extremely difficult to take anything else you'd say serious on the subject of MMA.

He's a National Championship level wrestler so, yeah, he had skill in one of the foundations of MMA.

Yeah I acknowledged that a few posts later.

With that said, and I loved watching Lesnar, he had all kinds of holes in his game but he was so physically superior to everyone.

Also, Lesnar clearly was on gear as well.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Yeah I acknowledged that a few posts later.

With that said, and I loved watching Lesnar, he had all kinds of holes in his game but he was so physically superior to everyone.

Also, Lesnar clearly was on gear as well.

It's entirely possible he was. I don't discount the possibility.

He wasn't popped for it though so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he does. That's pretty standard, as far as I'm concerned, to give the benefit of the doubt to the athlete until they're popped.

The ones who are popped even once, let alone multiple times, no longer deserve any benefit of the doubt.


Also yeah he had tons of holes cause he had no real striking or submission game at all. He had wrestling, which he is great at, and then just pound on you because of his sheer size and strength. That was fun to watch cause he'd use the one thing that he did do extremely well to allow him to physically impose his will on people.

Unfortunately that will only work for so long and between coming up against guys who also could wrestle at a very high level, and being unable to train for extended periods of time due to his disease that I can't even begin to spell, he ran his course in UFC very quickly.

 

[jterrell]

Brock Lesner was a marketing ploy.
He has 1 actual UFC win. He split with Mir.
His 5-3 career record detail why he was never close to champ material.

He beat a 47 year old 205 pound Couture who never won a heavyweight fight again.
He was nearly dead versus Carwin who punched himself into cardiac arrest and retirement.

He never had a single legit fight outside Mir.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Brock Lesner was a marketing ploy.
He has 1 actual UFC win. He split with Mir.
His 5-3 career record detail why he was never close to champ material.

He beat a 47 year old 205 pound Couture who never won a heavyweight fight again.
He was nearly dead versus Carwin who punched himself into cardiac arrest and retirement.

He never had a single legit fight outside Mir.

That's fine.

They were all in the UFC.

So he fought who they had him fight in UFC.

You might not like the people he fought, and you might think they suck and what not (As everyone certainly has the right to do) but they were all contracted UFC MMA fighters.

There for they were legit fights. Rather you liked them, or Lesnar, or anyone else. They didn't have him fight Joe Average off the streets. He fought UFC contracted Heavyweights.

That's the bottom line of it.

 

[Risen Star]

Lesnar was battling diverticulitis during his UFC career. It's pretty extraordinary to do what he did considering his circumstances.

 

[jterrell]

That's fine.

They were all in the UFC.

So he fought who they had him fight in UFC.

You might not like the people he fought, and you might think they suck and what not (As everyone certainly has the right to do) but they were all contracted UFC MMA fighters.

There for they were legit fights. Rather you liked them, or Lesnar, or anyone else. They didn't have him fight Joe Average off the streets. He fought UFC contracted Heavyweights.

That's the bottom line of it.

Not even sure what you are trying to argue here.
Perhaps just to argue.

The UFC did not have Lesner fight a bunch of legit fights.
He was a marketing ploy, plain and simple.

He won 4 UFC fights. Those included the last ever fight by Heath Herring who was semi-retired and making B or C level movies. A Light Heavyweight wrestler in Couture who had come off a year or more out of fighting altogether, a split with Mir who was 230 pounds the first fight and a brutal beatdown by Carwin where he won when the ref didn't stop the fight and Carwin gave himself a coronary punching Lesner in the head 50 times.

Lesner was never a good heavyweight. He was just really big. He didn't even have rudimentary stand up. He came in at close to 300 pounds fighting guys 50 to 60 pounds lighter than him. The UFC chose those match ups to allow him to win and sell PPV buys. When he was tested by guys his own size, Carwin and Overeem, he was truly embarrassed. He would have never been competitive with any of the 3 now. Werdum, Dos Santos or Cain. He couldn't beat Big Foot or Browne. He didn't even last a round with a gate keeper like Overeem.

Lesner is a somewhat embarrassing footnote in the history of the UFC but one that made them a whole lot of money.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Lesner is a somewhat embarrassing footnote in the history of the UFC but one that made them a whole lot of money.

While I agree with your post, isn't that really all that matters in the entertainment biz?

 

[Szczepanik]

The UFC has always tried to ride the money train with someone.

Before it was Bisping, then Lesnar, after Lesnar they went onto the Pettis train. After Pettis they have been riding Ronda and Conor.

To expect anything less from the UFC is absurd. Dana uses the ranking system to mask the fact that he only cares about the $$.

By reading all of the posts recently, I assume everyone who liked Anderson Silva now is the complete opposite on him .

 

[Szczepanik]

While I agree with your post, isn't that really all that matters in the entertainment biz?

Well MMA keeps trying to go mainstream and be somewhat competitive with other professional sports, so it would be best for them to not cupcake matchup particular fighters just for marketing.

That would be like the NFL playoffs switching matchups and disregarding seeding for increase in viewership.

 

[jterrell]

While I agree with your post, isn't that really all that matters in the entertainment biz?

The biggest issue with businesses is the desire to sell out for short-term money.

So much focus on winning the quarter instead of a longer game plan that equates to real strength.

I don't think Lesner hurt the UFC but he did allow it's detractors to poke fun at them. The last thing you want to play with is your credibility as a fight org.

This Reebok deal has been terrible for the UFC. That is truly a black eye. And they have so many detractors they can't even really punish them all anymore.
Offering guys 7-10k a fight when they were making 25K is just terrible.

 

[Szczepanik]

I would absolutely LOVE for Dana and company to do this:

Institute a tournament format for particular divisions that have an excess of talented fighters.

For instance you could easily get a large number of the 135 , 145 , and 155 lbers to agree to a tourny format. Hold a big press conference and have each fighter present that wants to participate.
Every fighter gets assigned a number and similiar to a lottery, 2 fighters are picked at random. This would be live to watch of course, and then these chosen fighters get to find out who they fight live. Instead of fighters "ducking" other fighters, everyone is fair game.

I've always wanted to see a formal playoff system or tournament style especially for the smaller divisions. Most of these fighters cut from 160ish anyways, and you could easily have a whole new slew of matchups we would not see otherwise.

As much as Dana loves money, I don't understand why he hasn't given this a shot. Bellator has tried something similiar tourney style, but they don't have the roster to pull something of that magnitude off.

 

[Szczepanik]

On a sidenote, I am thankful that most of the people that discuss UFC argue and have polarizing opinions on most every subject. It would make for a boring debate if we all agreed.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Not even sure what you are trying to argue here.
Perhaps just to argue.

The UFC did not have Lesner fight a bunch of legit fights.
He was a marketing ploy, plain and simple.

He won 4 UFC fights. Those included the last ever fight by Heath Herring who was semi-retired and making B or C level movies. A Light Heavyweight wrestler in Couture who had come off a year or more out of fighting altogether, a split with Mir who was 230 pounds the first fight and a brutal beatdown by Carwin where he won when the ref didn't stop the fight and Carwin gave himself a coronary punching Lesner in the head 50 times.

Lesner was never a good heavyweight. He was just really big. He didn't even have rudimentary stand up. He came in at close to 300 pounds fighting guys 50 to 60 pounds lighter than him. The UFC chose those match ups to allow him to win and sell PPV buys. When he was tested by guys his own size, Carwin and Overeem, he was truly embarrassed. He would have never been competitive with any of the 3 now. Werdum, Dos Santos or Cain. He couldn't beat Big Foot or Browne. He didn't even last a round with a gate keeper like Overeem.

Lesner is a somewhat embarrassing footnote in the history of the UFC but one that made them a whole lot of money.

And another one bites the dust.

Thank you for allowing me to no longer waste my time. Have a good day sir.