Ultimate "Hey Payton, take Zimmer with you" post...

neosapien23

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summerisfunner said:
Bill left New England because Kraft wouldn't let him make all the picks

if you think HCs don't have say in personnel matters, sorry, you're a fool

So why was Parcell's complaining when Terry Glenn was drafted? Why was Mike Holmgren complaining about being ignored by the GM. Why did Biilichick state that he couldn't get along with the GM of the Jets. Just provide me with some proof of Capers making the picks or FA acquisitions and I'll concede defeat.
 

Wolverine

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summerisfunner said:
can you wake me up when you construct a logical argument, with factual basis?


Since your idea of a fact is sayin how Mike Zimmer is the greatest DC the NFL has ever seen.....I guess what you ask for just aint gonna go.
 

Bob Sacamano

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neosapien23 said:
So why was Parcell's complaining when Terry Glenn was drafted? Why was Mike Holmgren complaining about being ignored by the GM. Why did Biilichick state that he couldn't get along with the GM of the Jets. Just provide me with some proof of Capers making the picks or FA acquisitions and I'll concede defeat.

the proof is in bold

Esiason vs. Greene



Thumbs up for Dom, Marty

By Kevin Greene
NFL Insider


Only the football gods know how successful an incoming coach will be with his new team. But we sometimes can get a sense by examining the clubs.
As a rule of thumb, team owners will hire a coach based on his track record. Case in point: Dom Capers and the new Houston Texans.
A well-respected coach throughout the league, Dom has been there, done that with an expansion team. He took over the new Carolina Panthers in 1995, and in 1996 he took them to the NFC Championship Game and was named NFL coach of the year. If there's a harder-working head coach than Capers in the NFL, I haven't met him.
Capers loaded the Panthers with a good blend of young potential stars and old crusty warriors, and he created magic. He's apparently doing the same thing in Texas, selecting rookie David Carr as his star-quarterback-in-training and bringing in solid Pro Bowl players who still have juice in their tanks, such as Tony Boselli and Aaron Glenn.
A second indicator of how a new head coach will fare is the quality of the players he inherits. Let's take a look at the case of John Fox, former defensive coordinator with the Giants, now head coach of the Panthers.
Because this is his first head-coaching opportunity, we don't have the benefit of looking back at his track record. But we can check out his talent pool. Fox may be behind the eight ball here. When I look at the Carolina roster, I honestly don't see a lot. I'm sure these guys will play hard. But are they going to dramatically influence the outcome of the game in a positive way? That seems questionable.
Sure, the Panthers drafted Julius Peppers as their sackmaster, but how much can you rely on a rookie to make game-changing plays? Most rookies, no matter their draft position, struggle for years to adjust to this new level.
Another indicator of how a new coach will perform is the latitude he has to make his own personnel decisions. In other words, you need to have leeway to make headway. Take Steve Spurrier with the Washington Commanders.
Spurrier's track record is impressive, obviously. He was stellar at the University of Florida. He also inherits some playmakers -- I'm thinking of cornerback Champ Bailey, linebacker LaVar Arrington, and running back Stephen Davis. More important, I believe owner Dan Snyder has given Spurrier complete control of the wagon's reins. Spurrier's salary proves that Snyder wants to win. Give a man $5 million a year, and you've got to give him the authority to build his team his way.
Spurrier signed some of his old Gator quarterbacks, and Shane Matthews may be the pick of the litter. Spurrier also got a head-coaching candidate and hired him as his defensive coordinator -- Marvin Lewis from the Baltimore Ravens. Lewis' defenses were among the best in the league the last couple of years. So I think Spurrier is tracking correctly.
There is a lot pressure on NFL coaches to win immediately. But owners have to realize that it's extremely difficult to assemble a winning team in a year or two. There are too many intangibles involved. First, you need talent. Then, you have to get the players on your bandwagon, believing in your philosophy.
Marty Schottenheimer was the Commanders' coach for all of one season. One! It doesn't make sense to fire a coach after one year unless the team is absolutely hopeless. But the Commanders weren't. They went 8-8. They still had visions of a winning season until week 15. After a slow start, Schottenheimer had the team playing at close to playoff level. I think he will do well in San Diego.
Sometimes ownership will make changes just for the sake of change. That happened to two of my old coaches, John Robinson with the Rams and then Capers in Carolina. Both got fired after poor seasons. But to me, it was the players who let down the coaching staff, not the other way around. And their respective replacements, Chuck Knox and George Seifert, didn't fare much better.
We all like to think we can forecast the winners in an NFL season. I know what I'd like to see: Dom Capers and Marty Schottenheimer kicking some butt in 2002.
Reprinted from the 2002 preview issue of NFL Insider.
 

neosapien23

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summerisfunner said:
can you wake me up when you construct a logical argument, with factual basis?

Look Ziimer is always in the league bottom for ints and sacks. He's also in the league bottom in both yards and points given up. Zimmer is not a bad DC, but he is extremely conservative. If you go by points and yards given up Zimmer usually has a top 10 defense, if you go by sacks and takeaways we're always in the bottom. It depends on what you want in a DC.
 

neosapien23

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summerisfunner said:
the proof is in bold

Esiason vs. Greene



Thumbs up for Dom, Marty

By Kevin Greene
NFL Insider
Only the football gods know how successful an incoming coach will be with his new team. But we sometimes can get a sense by examining the clubs.
As a rule of thumb, team owners will hire a coach based on his track record. Case in point: Dom Capers and the new Houston Texans.
A well-respected coach throughout the league, Dom has been there, done that with an expansion team. He took over the new Carolina Panthers in 1995, and in 1996 he took them to the NFC Championship Game and was named NFL coach of the year. If there's a harder-working head coach than Capers in the NFL, I haven't met him.
Capers loaded the Panthers with a good blend of young potential stars and old crusty warriors, and he created magic. He's apparently doing the same thing in Texas, selecting rookie David Carr as his star-quarterback-in-training and bringing in solid Pro Bowl players who still have juice in their tanks, such as Tony Boselli and Aaron Glenn.
A second indicator of how a new head coach will fare is the quality of the players he inherits. Let's take a look at the case of John Fox, former defensive coordinator with the Giants, now head coach of the Panthers.
Because this is his first head-coaching opportunity, we don't have the benefit of looking back at his track record. But we can check out his talent pool. Fox may be behind the eight ball here. When I look at the Carolina roster, I honestly don't see a lot. I'm sure these guys will play hard. But are they going to dramatically influence the outcome of the game in a positive way? That seems questionable.
Sure, the Panthers drafted Julius Peppers as their sackmaster, but how much can you rely on a rookie to make game-changing plays? Most rookies, no matter their draft position, struggle for years to adjust to this new level.
Another indicator of how a new coach will perform is the latitude he has to make his own personnel decisions. In other words, you need to have leeway to make headway. Take Steve Spurrier with the Washington Commanders.
Spurrier's track record is impressive, obviously. He was stellar at the University of Florida. He also inherits some playmakers -- I'm thinking of cornerback Champ Bailey, linebacker LaVar Arrington, and running back Stephen Davis. More important, I believe owner Dan Snyder has given Spurrier complete control of the wagon's reins. Spurrier's salary proves that Snyder wants to win. Give a man $5 million a year, and you've got to give him the authority to build his team his way.
Spurrier signed some of his old Gator quarterbacks, and Shane Matthews may be the pick of the litter. Spurrier also got a head-coaching candidate and hired him as his defensive coordinator -- Marvin Lewis from the Baltimore Ravens. Lewis' defenses were among the best in the league the last couple of years. So I think Spurrier is tracking correctly.
There is a lot pressure on NFL coaches to win immediately. But owners have to realize that it's extremely difficult to assemble a winning team in a year or two. There are too many intangibles involved. First, you need talent. Then, you have to get the players on your bandwagon, believing in your philosophy.
Marty Schottenheimer was the Commanders' coach for all of one season. One! It doesn't make sense to fire a coach after one year unless the team is absolutely hopeless. But the Commanders weren't. They went 8-8. They still had visions of a winning season until week 15. After a slow start, Schottenheimer had the team playing at close to playoff level. I think he will do well in San Diego.
Sometimes ownership will make changes just for the sake of change. That happened to two of my old coaches, John Robinson with the Rams and then Capers in Carolina. Both got fired after poor seasons. But to me, it was the players who let down the coaching staff, not the other way around. And their respective replacements, Chuck Knox and George Seifert, didn't fare much better.
We all like to think we can forecast the winners in an NFL season. I know what I'd like to see: Dom Capers and Marty Schottenheimer kicking some butt in 2002.
Reprinted from the 2002 preview issue of NFL Insider.

All right you win. Your very smart I am not. Your very handsome and I'm not very attractive.
 

BigDFan5

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Juke99 said:
My only objection to the "top ten" argument is that defense has changed...rating a defense has more to do with creating turnovers, shortening the field, rushing the QB into mistakes, than total yardage stats.


The most important part is points allowed and Zimms defenses excell there too
 

neosapien23

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BigDFan5 said:
The most important part is points allowed and Zimms defenses excell there too

Like I said earlier, Zimmer doesn't give up yards or points. He doesn't create sacks or ints either though. He is a great conservative DC. He won't win the game for you, but he won't lose it either. Although Roy did pick off McChoke for that easy TD. It all depends on what you want from your DC.
 

BigDFan5

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neosapien23 said:
You can't polish up a bunch of turds to look like all pros. quote]


2003 #1 overall D #2 in points allowed

Starters

Willie Blade
Ebenezer Eukuban
Mario Edwards
Singleton


Thats some polishing right there
 

The Fonz

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Wolverine said:
Oh yeah that one. That was Maria Sharapova. Oh but dont get any ideas shes already mine.
ohh ya plz Maria Sharapova easy on the eyes:)
 

neosapien23

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BigDFan5 said:
neosapien23 said:
You can't polish up a bunch of turds to look like all pros. quote]


2003 #1 overall D #2 in points allowed

Starters

Willie Blade
Ebenezer Eukuban
Mario Edwards
Singleton


Thats some polishing right there

We still had Glover, Ellis, Newman, Williams, Dat, Coakley, and Woodson. Willie Blade and Singleton did not play crappy. They played within their responsibilities. Our defense was way better than Houston's. Oh by the way our #1 Defense got shredded by both the Eagles and Dolphins for 40 plus points. Good defenses do not give up that many points. Our defense was the equivalent to the Bears defense of this year. Being number 1 in stats can be misleading.
 

BigDFan5

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neosapien23 said:
Look Ziimer is always in the league bottom for ints and sacks. He's also in the league bottom in both yards and points given up. Zimmer is not a bad DC, but he is extremely conservative. If you go by points and yards given up Zimmer usually has a top 10 defense, if you go by sacks and takeaways we're always in the bottom. It depends on what you want in a DC.


This season we were tied for 8th in sacks

16th in turnover margin

12 in points allowed (19.2 pg)

10th in total D


None of this is close to the bottom of the league sorry.

and all of this was done in his first year to ever run a 34 def.
 
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