Uninspired

[dreghorn2]

'I think the question becomes whether you'll be "happy" with any head coach until he wins a Super Bowl.'

And you would be happy if you felt, in your humble opinion, that the current coach will be unable to do so?

Thats really all it is, some people just truely believe, with no agenda, and no happiness derived from 'being right', that this is a poor move.

 

[craig71]

Rolling,Rolling,Rolling Rawhide......lol


Craig

 

[dbair1967]

It really makes one wonder what, if any, changes would be made if Jerrys 'perfect' coaching setup wasn't in place.

Are there any other competent coaches that would work under a similar system. Head coach offense, head coach defense, GM/owner/spokesman.

You realize that every team in football that has the HC call plays (whether its offense or defense) is this scenario, right?

 

[2much2soon]

Since speed is the first thing to go, I say Witten has about a 10 year window to continue be effective

 

[dreghorn2]

Oh come on.. you know our setup is unusual in NFL circles.

 

[theogt]

'I think the question becomes whether you'll be "happy" with any head coach until he wins a Super Bowl.'

And you would be happy if you felt, in your humble opinion, that the current coach will be unable to do so?

Thats really all it is, some people just truely believe, with no agenda, and no happiness derived from 'being right', that this is a poor move.

I don't think any head coach is "unable" or incapable of winning a Super Bowl. It's not as if some people are jinxed and can never succeed. When people say "we can never win a Super Bowl with XYZ coach," I think the feeling that those people have rises to the level of superstition.

The question is only whether a coach is smart, motivated, organized and can teach. Wade can do all that. The rest either happens or it doesn't. It's a game -- all games require a degree of luck or happenstance. There are 31 teams that don't win every year. That odds of winning it all are slim. That's just reality.

 

[Juke99]

And you may well be right, not blasting you at all for it.

He's 63 I think?

He started coaching in the mid to late 70's...that over 30 years ago.

He had his first head coaching job in 1993. 17 years ago. That's part of why I don't embrace the Landry comparison. In 9 of those 17 years, no NFL team thought he was a head coach that they wanted.

Billick was a young man. Even Cowher was a young man when he won.

Ewbank? He won two championships with the Colts and one with the Jets. He's a hall of fame coach.

And Switzer was what, an NFL coach for 2 years when he won the Super Bowl?

My point is not that every guy who has won a super bowl had hall of fame qualities. My point is that I really can't recall a coach, with this much experience, winning for the first time this late in his career.

I'm sure there's a few. I just can't think of any.

Hey...next season will be here....eventually. And we can begin to hope again.

 

[dreghorn2]

' It's a game -- all games require a degree of luck or happenstance[/QUOTE]

I'll agree with that to a certain extent.

However, we are talking multi-million dollar athletes, owners, and franchises, if coaching wasn't such an important ingredient then the successful ones would not be so highly paid and sought after.

 

[rcaldw]

I don't think any head coach is "unable" or incapable of winning a Super Bowl. It's not as if some people are jinxed and can never succeed. When people say "we can never win a Super Bowl with XYZ coach," I think the feeling that those people have rises to the level of superstition.

The question is only whether a coach is smart, motivated, organized and can teach. Wade can do all that. The rest either happens or it doesn't. It's a game -- all games require a degree of luck or happenstance. There are 31 teams that don't win every year. That odds of winning it all are slim. That's just reality.

I will concede your point that any head coach, given the right circumstances, could ride their way to a Super Bowl win. (Barry Switzer) But I sure don't accept the idea that they are all equal. And that is what has me concerned. I think Juke expressed it best.

 

[Juke99]

Who's the last Cowboys head coach you were happy with?

I think the question becomes whether you'll be "happy" with any head coach until he wins a Super Bowl. And given that reality, there's no point exploring what would make you happy in terms of a head coach RIGHT NOW.

You're not hearing what I'm saying.

Some of you guys immediately jump to conclusions about what someone is posting...even if it's not what they're saying.

I am saying, Wade has a LONG track record in the NFL...and I am suspecting he has reached his ceiling. I just don't see that suddenly, after this long of a career, he's going to turn it around.

I said the same about Norv Turner. I suspect the same of a guy like Chan Gailey. I mentioned Marty Schottenheimer...

But right away starts the bombardment of "Oh so which coach would make you happy right now"

I wasn't discussing that. I was discussing the concept of "Hey, sometimes guys just go as far as their talent will take them and that's short of a championship"

But of course, it becomes a "Oh yeah, so who do you want to hire?" discussion instead.

Whatever.

 

[craig71]

You're not hearing what I'm saying.

Some of you guys immediately jump to conclusions about what someone is posting...even if it's not what they're saying.

I am saying, Wade has a LONG track record in the NFL...and I am suspecting he has reached his ceiling. I just don't see that suddenly, after this long of a career, he's going to turn it around.

I said the same about Norv Turner. I suspect the same of a guy like Chan Gailey. I mentioned Marty Schottenheimer...

But right away starts the bombardment of "Oh so which coach would make you happy right now"

I wasn't discussing that. I was discussing the concept of "Hey, sometimes guys just go as far as their talent will take them and that's short of a championship"

But of course, it becomes a "Oh yeah, so who do you want to hire?" discussion instead.

Whatever.

If Wade won a Super Bowl he would unseat Vermeil as the oldest person to win a Lombardi.Atleast I think Vermeil is the oldest to win a Super Bowl game.


Craig

 

[Juke99]

If Wade won a Super Bowl he would unseat Vermeil as the oldest person to win a Lombardi.Atleast I think Vermeil is the oldest to win a Super Bowl game.


Craig

Could be. Vermeil was 63 when he won.

He was 44 when he got there and lost with the Eagles.

Thanks

 

[theogt]

You're not hearing what I'm saying.

Some of you guys immediately jump to conclusions about what someone is posting...even if it's not what they're saying.

I am saying, Wade has a LONG track record in the NFL...and I am suspecting he has reached his ceiling. I just don't see that suddenly, after this long of a career, he's going to turn it around.

I said the same about Norv Turner. I suspect the same of a guy like Chan Gailey. I mentioned Marty Schottenheimer...

But right away starts the bombardment of "Oh so which coach would make you happy right now"

I wasn't discussing that. I was discussing the concept of "Hey, sometimes guys just go as far as their talent will take them and that's short of a championship"

But of course, it becomes a "Oh yeah, so who do you want to hire?" discussion instead.

Whatever.

I hear what you're saying. I just think it's always going to be something. You don't like Wade for certain reasons. You didn't like Parcells for different reasons. You didn't like Campo for obvious reasons. I suspect you haven't been happy with any head coach since Jimmy.

Hence, my comment.

It's not that I want to get into a "who do you want to hire" discussion. I'd rather not, because I don't think there's anyone you'd be happy with, so it'd be pointless.

 

[kramskoi]

I dunno, it just seems that there is a long enough history and large enough body of work to feel that Wade has reached his ceiling as a coach.

It doesn't seem likely that suddenly, after all these years, he's going to become a super bowl winning coach.

But hey, who knows.

...well Dungy needed 5 years in Indianapolis...an that was with Manning, James and Harrison...Manning started in 1998 and did'nt get his Superbowl until 2006...and if ever a guy could WILL an offense to move its him...it took Dungy 5 years to whip that defense into championship caliber...and even with this marriage of the ultimate quarterback and tough defense Manning has only one SB appearance in 10 seasons as starting quarterback...

 

[WV Cowboy]

The score said 34-3, but the game was not that lopsided and in truth, was a game we still could have won in the 4th qtr.

No matter how hard some try, this years loss to Minnesota is NOT like last years loss to Philly. That game was clearly over before halftime and the team looked like a bunch of quitters in each of the last two games of the season. That wasnt the case this year.

The score was 34-3.

Now we're going to start to excuse final scores by saying that the game wasn't that lopsided?

dbair is exactly right, after 20,000 posts on this board, you have to see what he is saying.

 

[Juke99]

I hear what you're saying. I just think it's always going to be something. You don't like Wade for certain reasons. You didn't like Parcells for different reasons. You didn't like Campo for obvious reasons. I suspect you haven't been happy with any head coach since Jimmy.

Hence, my comment.

It's not that I want to get into a "who do you want to hire" discussion. I'd rather not, because I don't think there's anyone you'd be happy with, so it'd be pointless.

Even if what you say is true, and it isn't....I wasn't having a discussion about that.

I was trying to have a football discussion about coaches reaching their personal plateau...and why I have concerns about Wade because of that.

I was thrilled when Parcells was first here...absolutely thrilled. I already had the book that he wrote "Final Season". I was less than thrilled when it became apparent to me...and many others...that he wasn't the same coach that I saw all those years in NY. You are what your record says you are. He was past his time.

And I'll say this again, I already have a job (two, actually) I don't have time to scout NFL assistants...great college coaches...etc... so raising the question "Who would you want as a coach?" is kinda silly.

The one thing I will say because you're wrong about my always finding fault in the coaches....I have consistently said, I do NOT like Jerry as a GM.

In fact, I am the one who has consistently said "It's not the coaches fault that he's the coach of the Cowboys. Did you expect him to say "Nah, Jerry, I'm not qualified" If ya don't like a coach, point the finger at Jerry.

I can't blame Campo for being himself. But I can blame the guy who put him in charge.

But see, then we're off and running on a "Yeah but I'll be you liked Jerry when the Cowboys won those Super Bowls"

Next.

 

[theogt]

Even if what you say is true, and it isn't....I wasn't having a discussion about that.

I was trying to have a football discussion about coaches reaching their personal plateau...and why I have concerns about Wade because of that.

I was thrilled when Parcells was first here...absolutely thrilled. I already had the book that he wrote "Final Season". I was less than thrilled when it became apparent to me...and many others...that he wasn't the same coach that I saw all those years in NY. You are what your record says you are. He was past his time.

And I'll say this again, I already have a job (two, actually) I don't have time to scout NFL assistants...great college coaches...etc... so raising the question "Who would you want as a coach?" is kinda silly.

The one thing I will say because you're wrong about my always finding fault in the coaches....I have consistently said, I do NOT like Jerry as a GM.

In fact, I am the one who has consistently said "It's not the coaches fault that he's the coach of the Cowboys. Did you expect him to say "Nah, Jerry, I'm not qualified" If ya don't like a coach, point the finger at Jerry.

I can't blame Campo for being himself. But I can blame the guy who put him in charge.

But see, then we're off and running on a "Yeah but I'll be you liked Jerry when the Cowboys won those Super Bowls"

Next.

But, I'm right that you're only happy with two former Dallas Cowboys head coaches, correct? Maybe it's just a coincidence that those were the only two that won a Super Bowl.

 

[craig71]

Could be. Vermeil was 63 when he won.

He was 44 when he got there and lost with the Eagles.

Thanks

63 years 92 days when Vermeil won the whole enchilada.

I didn't check but I would think that Marv Levy would have to be the oldest HC to participate in a Super Bowl.

Craig

 

[Juke99]

...well Dungy needed 5 years in Indianapolis...an that was with Manning, James and Harrison...Manning started in 1998 and did'nt get his Superbowl until 2006...and if ever a guy could WILL an offense to move its him...it took Dungy 5 years to whip that defense into championship caliber...and even with this marriage of the ultimate quarterback and tough defense Manning has only one SB appearance in 10 seasons as starting quarterback...

That's all well and good...but it's not what I'm talking about...

I am saying, I have a concern after Wade's extensive body of work (that is, 33 years in the NFL) that his plateau might be exactly where he is now.

 

[WV Cowboy]

But, I'm right that you're only happy with two former Dallas Cowboys head coaches, correct? Maybe it's just a coincidence that those were the only two that won a Super Bowl.

3 have won Super Bowls.