UPDATE: Please Pray for our son. Part 2

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'm hoping he was speaking to the attitude officers have about the sick or injured men, not that he was doubting Rayman's son.

Sadly there were individuals in the military who would take advantage and milk injuries to get out of duty. He calls them Sick Bay Commandos...we would call them Private Profiles. In the army if you get certain medical restrictions they call it a profile hence the nickname private profiles.

However that was clearly not the case with Rayman's son.

 

[Rockport]

Or I was just willing to use my brain, do what is right and have the balls to stand up for what is right even if it gets me in trouble.
A soldier that knows wrong vs right and is not afraid to state it, is a smart soldier. Sometimes the military likes a smart soldier, sometimes they prefer a dumb one who never questions orders even if they are wrong.

It was a lawful order. You could have been charged with insubordination. They’re proper ways to deal with that. I guess the Army is lax in discipline at least in this regard.

 

[Rockport]

I was an enlisted E4p Medic.
And I was not going to let a Full Bird run some kid right back to work doing hard labor after having an injury and I was willing to put my neck on the line to do the right thing even if it meant being wrote up.

I respected the rank at that time but I was not going to let that guy railroad and run over that soldier. I did not dress him down by cussing at him or calling him names or disrespecting his rank but I did make it clear in no uncertain terms that I was there for what was best for the soldier in his injured state.

I will also say that after the talk I had with the officer he later said he appreciated that I stuck up for the troop and was willing to go down fighting for him if need be. Unlike the Col at the time, I knew the medical condition of the soldier and the Col did not so he was trying to get him back to work for the wrong reasons.

And stop with the sick bay commando crap. If you read the prior threads his son was in a serious accident with serious medical situations. He was hospitalized for some time over it. And after getting out and being forced back to work when he should have still been on profile he reinjured himself causing a staph infection. And those are nothing to sneeze at.

Way too many NCO and Officers in the military that get way to used to the idea that just because they out rank someone they are always right and everyone must cower down to their will. I usually lived by the rule you do not have to respect the man but respect the rank. However when it came to another soldiers well being and me being the medic on duty, I went to bat for them because that was what is supposed to be done. Unlawful orders are unlawful for a reason.

Hey dude get over yourself. I wasn’t talking about Raymans son in the least but just your insubordination. In some services, that Col would have chews your *** out where your right or wrong for the sheer insubordination. You let some hot shot like you who thinks he knows better get away with it and more will follow. You say yes sir to the Cololnel and THEN request mast up the chain. Army’s different I guess.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Hey dude get over yourself. I wasn’t talking about Raymans son in the least but just your insubordination. In some services, that Col would have chews your *** out where your right or wrong for the sheer insubordination. You let some hot shot like you who thinks he knows better get away with it and more will follow. You say yes sir to the Cololnel and THEN request mast up the chain. Army’s different I guess.

I always said yes sir and no sir. I did not call anyone any names nor did I tell him he was stupid.

I stood by my guns. He said that soldier needs to go back to regular duty. I said No sir.
It will not happen. I said and if you do make him go back to work with that injury even though the doctors said not to do so I will go over your head via the chain of command. I will in no way let that man go back to regular duty while he is still injured. I did work with him and let the soldier go back to extreme light duty, basically just working communications.

Now if you are the type that will follow every order no matter if it is right and wrong. That is on you. I had a great company commander in Korea that always did what was right and if the his troopers were doing the right thing he would always go to bat for them. He always said that you can measure a mans worth that will do the right thing even if it gets him in trouble vs those that will just do the easy thing even if it is wrong.

 

[zrinkill]

Hey dude get over yourself. I wasn’t talking about Raymans son in the least but just your insubordination. In some services, that Col would have chews your *** out where your right or wrong for the sheer insubordination. You let some hot shot like you who thinks he knows better get away with it and more will follow. You say yes sir to the Cololnel and THEN request mast up the chain. Army’s different I guess.

Why not take your nonsense out of this thread ....... be respectful to Raymen and his family.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

It was a lawful order. You could have been charged with insubordination. They’re proper ways to deal with that. I guess the Army is lax in discipline at least in this regard.

That was NOT a lawful order. There are no two ways about it. Oh and he could have wrote me up on the spot or send me up the rails but not letting an officer force a soldier to go back to work when medical doctors have said they are not to do so is in no way shape or form a lawful order.

There is a very distinct reason why there are limitation put on soldiers after an injury and it is NOT lawful for an NCO or Officer to ignore those. It cost the military more money and it brings down production of a unit if a soldier makes an injury worse and therefore prolongs the time he or she will be off. A soldier that is hampered by an injury is not 100% and therefore can bring down production and quality work of a unit.

If it was ok to do that....they would never have medical profiles and limitations after injuries in the first place.

 

[Rockport]

CB

That was NOT a lawful order. There are no two ways about it. Oh and he could have wrote me up on the spot or send me up the rails but not letting an officer force a soldier to go back to work when medical doctors have said they are not to do so is in no way shape or form a lawful order.

There is a very distinct reason why there are limitation put on soldiers after an injury and it is NOT lawful for an NCO or Officer to ignore those. It cost the military more money and it brings down production of a unit if a soldier makes an injury worse and therefore prolongs the time he or she will be off. A soldier that is hampered by an injury is not 100% and therefore can bring down production and quality work of a unit.

If it was ok to do that....they would never have medical profiles and limitations after injuries in the first place.

God help us and God help Raymons son.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I apologize to Rayman, and others, for letting this thread get away from the main topic.

I will never apologize for being a medic and putting the troops medical situation above someone above me that does not know the facts and tries to act in a manner unbecoming an officer by trying to issue an unlawful order by trying to ignore medical orders issued to a soldier.

Also among those that served we would make fun of other branches in different ways with good natured ribbing. Whether that be calling navy men gilligan or making fun of their unis. Questioning Marines mental capacities. Ribbing the airforce by calling them smurfs and saying they are the easiest on all military.. But I also was not going to do that in this thread as this topic was serious. And although he questioned my integrity and also seems to try and question the Army...I let that go and was not going to add into that.

With that said...

I will apologize to Rockport if he truly was not insinuating that this was someone just trying to get out of work. If I was wrong about that I give a true Apology for that, Sorry Sir.

I will let this conversation between Rockport and I go and he can have the last word.

 

[Rockport]

I apologize to Rayman, and others, for letting this thread get away from the main topic.

I will never apologize for being a medic and putting the troops medical situation above someone above me that does not know the facts and tries to act in a manner unbecoming an officer by trying to issue an unlawful order by trying to ignore medical orders issued to a soldier.

Also among those that served we would make fun of other branches in different ways with good natured ribbing. Whether that be calling navy men gilligan or making fun of their unis. Questioning Marines mental capacities. Ribbing the airforce by calling them smurfs and saying they are the easiest on all military.. But I also was not going to do that in this thread as this topic was serious. And although he questioned my integrity and also seems to try and question the Army...I let that go and was not going to add into that.

With that said...

I will apologize to Rockport if he truly was not insinuating that this was someone just trying to get out of work. If I was wrong about that I give a true Apology for that, Sorry Sir.

I will let this conversation between Rockport and I go and he can have the last word.

I would NEVER do such a thing.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I would NEVER do such a thing.

As stated earlier.
I apologize for that.

 

[Jimbo123]

 

[cald0d30s0]

Praying for your son and family. May God help and guide you and your family.

Please keep us posted.

 

[gtb1943]

Were you enlisted or did you out rank the Colonel? If you were enlisted and I was you NCO, I would’ve written you up on the spot. Right or wrong, enlisted do not dress down Cololnels. Maybe in the Army or Air Force, but not the Marines or the Navy. Not saying Rayman’s son did this in any way at all, but there’s a term in the Marines, “Sick bay Commando” given to those who are always at sick bay for one reason or another to get out of something. I only say this to add some depth to the conversation and to bring up that there’s other considerations when something like this happens and people make mistakes.

I watched a Gunny work a Colonel over. Did it absolutely correctly by the book but it certainly happened.

 

[Bigdog]

My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your son. I hope he gets better. Pulling for him.

 

[Rayman70]

I apologize to Rayman, and others, for letting this thread get away from the main topic.

I will never apologize for being a medic and putting the troops medical situation above someone above me that does not know the facts and tries to act in a manner unbecoming an officer by trying to issue an unlawful order by trying to ignore medical orders issued to a soldier.

Also among those that served we would make fun of other branches in different ways with good natured ribbing. Whether that be calling navy men gilligan or making fun of their unis. Questioning Marines mental capacities. Ribbing the airforce by calling them smurfs and saying they are the easiest on all military.. But I also was not going to do that in this thread as this topic was serious. And although he questioned my integrity and also seems to try and question the Army...I let that go and was not going to add into that.

With that said...

I will apologize to Rockport if he truly was not insinuating that this was someone just trying to get out of work. If I was wrong about that I give a true Apology for that, Sorry Sir.

I will let this conversation between Rockport and I go and he can have the last word.

np. I am able to post again .as I was benched for 3 days. Not gonna get into that but the update is as of last night he might get to go home Friday morning, today. They will do every recheck on him first to make sure no more issues. His health and safety, as with any soldier, should be number 1. Lets hope the powers that be above him don't try to pull rank again and rush him back to work. THIS TIME, maybe he should just say NO and follow the exact time off orders by the doctor. I have no idea if he talked to a Jag or if he is still thinking of that. I am trying to stay out of his way on that one and will support whichever route he wants to take. Just praying he has no setbacks.I thank God everyday for that kid. He was a joy to raise. Never 1 problem. Wish they were all that easy lol.

 

[Rayman70]

Sadly there were individuals in the military who would take advantage and milk injuries to get out of duty. He calls them Sick Bay Commandos...we would call them Private Profiles. In the army if you get certain medical restrictions they call it a profile hence the nickname private profiles.

However that was clearly not the case with Rayman's son.

100% correct. My son and I talked many times about guys like that in boot camp and guys more current that are in the military for all the wrong reasons and should never be there. Its exactly the way you framed it. You nailed it. He joined because he loves his Country and has his heart and mind in the right place. Hes a grounded young man. He is the leader of his unit but has guys above him that SHOULD NOT be in positions of power. He was jilted, snubbed twice actually from being a Sergeant. He had the points, did all the tests or whatever, he called it something else. He was told he made it, then once he came back from Korea , that duty station at Camp Walker SK, back to Camp Roberts, SOMEONE there above him denied him. My guess is its someone like his current C/O that he trusted that is suppose to go to bat for him, that didn't. Just my hunch. He is loyal to his oath he made and will carry on accordingly, thats the type of old-school soldier he is. When he commits, thats it. Right now, Im only focused on his health and he learned a valuable lesson, he will not be going back to work early even if they try to force him. Whatever the doctors tell him, he will stick to this time. His life is more important . His mental toughness is high level. He will battle thru it and we will support him. I sure thank you and everyone else on here for the support and love and knowledge. TY for your service btw Brain. Also to everyone else that served. His late Grandpa is proud of him.He served also in the Army. He is a 5th generation Army kid. Last night they would have let him go home but they did a recheck of his drain tube and they found a little trickle of fluid so they decided to wait one more day. Which is good, I am glad they are being more cautious this time.

 

[Rayman70]

looks like hes spending another night in the hospital Friday Night. They still aren't 100% satisfied with the look of the drainage. They THINK he may have a pinhole leak in his stomach. They want to be sure about that before they send him home. Just got off the phone with him. He's in good spirits but he's getting sick of being in a hospital. I told him to keep his chin up and I have alot of folks pulling for him. THANK YOU GUYS.My wife and I, and his siblings are grateful to you guys for the moral support. It helps us too. His momma is sick with heart failure where we are in Texas, and so I really can't leave her nor afford to go be with him. It really sucks. His mom is the salt of the Earth. I married a great woman 27 years ago. Without her there is no RJ.

 

[gtb1943]

looks like hes spending another night in the hospital Friday Night. They still aren't 1005 satisfied with the look of the drainage. They THINK he may have a pinhole leak in his stomach. They want to be sure about that before they send him home.

He needs to at least talk to his immediate CO about this. Make sure the SOB that ordered him back to duty against doctors orders will not try it again. I really wish he would talk to JAG. I do not trust an officer who does something like this. If he does it once, he will do it again.

 

[Rayman70]

He needs to at least talk to his immediate CO about this. Make sure the SOB that ordered him back to duty against doctors orders will not try it again. I really wish he would talk to JAG. I do not trust an officer who does something like this. If he does it once, he will do it again.

ditto. I agree! I just brought that up to him again while on the phone. I warned him. I don't trust his C/O totally. Not sure he's going to bat for him like he should. I don't want to get involved; I prefer him to do what he feels to guard against this again. BUT if I need to, I just might do it. But as a man and a soldier, Im trying to let him sort this out. I wish I knew how to get ahold of the right dept there at Camp Roberts to talk to someone about it, without them coming down on him. When he was in Camp Walker SK the c/o there was outstanding but where he is now, its a mess.

 

[nightrain]

Dang, so sorry that your Son is going through this. Praying for his speedy recovery and some smarts for his superiors at the base.