Upgrading Safety

[Galian Beast]

I've heard a lot of people talking about the need to upgrade at safety, and I really do believe we need to do something at safety, but I don't think this is the time.

In 2013 we spent a 3rd round draft pick on J.J. Wilcox with the understanding that he was going to be extremely raw not having played the position much in college. We have to give him all the opportunity in the world to grow into that position.

I would say competition dictates that we still address the position, but we've also spent a 4th round draft pick on the position in 2012 with Matt Johnson. If Johnson can't stay healthy next year, likely that will be the end of him here, but he should also be afforded that opportunity.

Given that Church is certainly a starter, I don't think it makes sense to throw more resources at safety, until we see whether our current investments pan out. And all that we do at safety isn't going to make a difference if there isn't some serious improvement on the defensive line, which I maintain should be our number #1 priority this offseason.

While we still have Carr, Claiborne, and Scandrick on the books, it makes more sense to me to try and upgrade the pass rush, which is going to help everyone reach a higher level, rather than waste resources on safety when players we already have may or may not pan out.

I wouldn't spend a dollar on a safety that could go towards a defensive lineman.

 

[Frozen700]

We don't fix what's upfront who cares who plays safety.

we have a guy eating up so much cap playing defensive end, and we can't make the needed upgrades. Problem is he is just playing average at best up to date.

 

[Galian Beast]

We don't fix what's upfront who cares who plays safety.

we have a guy eating up so much cap playing defensive end, and we can't make the needed upgrades. Problem is he is just playing average at best up to date.

I'm pleased the more and more I see people acknowledge this.

You take on a scorched earth policy on the defensive line, and we'll be a much better team next year.

FOUR NEW STARTERS

2 or 3 Free Agents

2 or 3 "first day" draft picks.

A complete dedication to building the defensive line next year.

Ideally I would only want to have one rookie on the defensive line, which would mean 3 free agent acquisitions for the defensive line. I think there is a real possibility we could get Henry Melton. You go after one of the top pass rushing ends (Michael Johnson, Michael Bennett, Greg Hardy, Brian Orakpo, in free agency, and then you get another defensive tackle in free agency like Linval Joseph. You then focus in the draft on getting a defensive end early. Hell at that point if you manage to get three starters, you can even get ballsy and trade up for Clowney.

Or you can start to mix it up a bit after getting a lower ranked defensive end. You can get that guard that we're going to need, you can get another linebacker. Hell, depending on how aggressive we are in free agency we'll be able to do whatever we want in the draft.

All that you need to to do to afford this is to release ware. We paid Ware and Spencer 20 million dollars collectively last year. We were paying Ratliff 8 million per year. So between those three players it was nearly 30 million a year... So let's not suggest that we can't pay players in their stead.

People are extremely comfortable overpaying for our underperforming players, but the same concept doesn't apply when it comes to signing top rated free agents. I was never sure why that was.

 

[Fredd]

I agree in principle with the scorched earth policy....however, if they could somehow reduce Ware's cap hit by A LOT, then I could still see him on one side....they must, MUST think of DL in the draft...the BPA approach is all well and good, as long as you are targeting needs...a scorched earth policy would dictate DL as "the" need...I am hopeful that Crawford will do well on the DL, but it would be terrific if he was the first guy off of the bench in the rotation (meaning we have 4 better DL starting). they must apply pressure and push the line back...get a few targeted FAs and a few draft picks and the pressure develops, and the back 7 will look WAY better


thus, safety isn't as big of a concern

 

[JakeCamp12]

My fear this year is it will be a repeat of the Goodrich draft, where we took multiple CB's and none of them really panned out. I pray this team sticks to their board and drafts the highest ranked player they have at the draft slot. If it is a D-lineman, than draft him, if it is a RB then draft him. Stick to the board and get the best player available. No over reacting to the current roster, no trading down to acquire more 7th round picks. Play the draft straight up and stick to the board you have spend countless hours and dollars creating.

 

[TheCount]

I don't think you pass up a chance at a big time FS, as I think they are actually more important than CB in the Tampa scheme, but I agree that we should see how Wilcox pans out.

We aren't one position or one player away, so I don't go into this draft with a list of positions to address. I'd draft the best players on the board outside of base skill positions like WR, RB and TE in the early rounds.

 

[casmith07]

None of the safeties in this draft are going to be much better than what we already have, with the exception of Heath.

Fix the pass rush, make the coverages easier on the CBs and Safeties we have, and watch the secondary play magically improve.

Just like the offensive line was fixed, and all of a sudden Romo has time to throw, throws less INTs, and we rush for 1000 yards for the first time since JULIUS JONES.

 

[noshame]

I'd like to see us totally attack the DL in the draft and FA, because as many have said, until you have a line, you can't evaluate what's behind it.

 

[Future]

Even if we did upgrade safety, I think its Church, rather than Wilcox who would be replaced. I like Church, but he's an in the box guy. If we could find a ball hawk type safety, then Wilcox could move to SS, which would be a huge athletic upgrade over Church. Church would have to find his role as the third safety or in short yardage situations.

 

[big dog cowboy]

At safety get a cheap vet. Fix the front 7 first.

 

[Section446]

Hey, a guy can dream:

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[tm1119]

Bring in a reasonably priced vet that isn't of Will Allen caliber. Problem we have is that JJ Wilcox seems like he's going to be Church 2.0. Great at chasing and tackling but not exactly the guy you want to leave in coverage by himself. Of course he's young and extremely raw, but I'm not sure FS on a team that has playoff aspirations is where you want to have a guy try to learn on the fly.

I say bring in a proven guy that isn't going to break the bank like Chris Gamble.

 

[DBOY3141]

I agree with most that if we can't improve the DL then it doesn't matter if we have Earl Thomas playing safety. But I think since we just spent a 3rd round pick on Wilcox that we have to give him a chance, if not then we wasted a 3rd round pick last year. That would be like saying if Marquise Lee or Evans is on the board we take them since they are projected to be better than T-Will. It's a fine line between taking BPA and picking for need.

 

[JBS]

None of the safeties in this draft are going to be much better than what we already have, with the exception of Heath.

Fix the pass rush, make the coverages easier on the CBs and Safeties we have, and watch the secondary play magically improve.

Just like the offensive line was fixed, and all of a sudden Romo has time to throw, throws less INTs, and we rush for 1000 yards for the first time since JULIUS JONES.

Yeah...nobody in this draft class is going to be better than below average....

I'm sure that will happen.

 

[xwalker]

I've heard a lot of people talking about the need to upgrade at safety, and I really do believe we need to do something at safety, but I don't think this is the time.

In 2013 we spent a 3rd round draft pick on J.J. Wilcox with the understanding that he was going to be extremely raw not having played the position much in college. We have to give him all the opportunity in the world to grow into that position.

I would say competition dictates that we still address the position, but we've also spent a 4th round draft pick on the position in 2012 with Matt Johnson. If Johnson can't stay healthy next year, likely that will be the end of him here, but he should also be afforded that opportunity.

Given that Church is certainly a starter, I don't think it makes sense to throw more resources at safety, until we see whether our current investments pan out. And all that we do at safety isn't going to make a difference if there isn't some serious improvement on the defensive line, which I maintain should be our number #1 priority this offseason.

While we still have Carr, Claiborne, and Scandrick on the books, it makes more sense to me to try and upgrade the pass rush, which is going to help everyone reach a higher level, rather than waste resources on safety when players we already have may or may not pan out.

I wouldn't spend a dollar on a safety that could go towards a defensive lineman.

I'm not sure if adding another young player (i.e. draft pick) to the mix is the best option. If they don't think one of Wilcox, Heath, Matt Johnson or Jakar Hamilton can step up and take the job in 2014, then a free agent might be a better option. Major Wright from the Bears is a free agent that played for Marinelli. The Bears have something like 29 free agents. Wright could come in and help others learn the defense.

 

[Idgit]

We need both DL and Safety and can't really afford to stand pat at either position.

I don't really know how we address both adequately with the cash and picks on hand in one offseason.

 

[jterrell]

Not sure you guys understand how the 4-3 is supposed to work but you rotate DL.
The Seattle DL is DEEPPPPPPP but has zero stars.
They've got a lot of Selvie types that play a limited snap count.
They've got some big bodies to stop the run that can rest in 2 minute stuff or long passing downs.
But no one making 'star' money or putting up star stats.

At DB however they have BY FAR the best safety tandem in football.

And it works because those safeties make the CBs and DL job easier. They can simply man cover in a limited window, rush on rush downs or run stop on run stopping downs. The safeties cover mistakes and protect against being fooled.

The safeties do not come off the field, the 8 DL all rotate in and out.

So when you plan to fix the defense try telling me again how it possibly makes sense to plan to use a guy like Jeff Heath EVERY DOWN so you can put resources into a 2nd round DT that will play half your defensive downs.

The Cowboys went into 2013 with a plan for 8 DL.
They also planned to plug Will Allen in as a stop gap at Safety backed up by a rookie 3rd rounder or the ghost of Matt Johnson whose played less football since being drafted than my dog.
The plan was flawed in the sense Ratliff was trying to murder the owner thus probably not sane nor likely to return.
That playing Spencer franchise money was a poor use of cap cash as it gave you nothing for him going forward and insured one of (if not) the highest single season cap totals for a DL signed in 2013.

I give Dallas passes on DL depth. Any sane person should.
Ware tailing off a bit and missing a game or three... foreseeable.
Ratliff leaving the reservation ... foreseeable.
Both happening... yuck but you took those chances.

Spencer missing 15 games > WTH???
Bass missing the season?? No Way. He wants to play and needs to play. Makes peanuts and is a rotation guy.
Crawford missing the year? Again, no way. May not be exactly sure where we plug in him or what his ceiling is yet but he's a legit rotation guy. EVERY bit as good as Michael Bennett, but no where near a Demarcus Ware.

All of that happening? Wow... that's simply not going to be something you next man up and overcome. Doesn't happen.
So again, I give Dallas a pass on the depth portion of DL issues if not on the highly paid front line guys they were gambling huge dollars on.

But Safety...
Let's review the god forsaken plan again shall we.

Will Allen???
Barry Church coming off serious injury and with zero experience???
Matt Johnson???
A rookie from Georgia State that lost by like 50 points per game????
This was THE PLAN????

That should be the plan AGAIN???

 

[xwalker]

Not sure you guys understand how the 4-3 is supposed to work but you rotate DL.
The Seattle DL is DEEPPPPPPP but has zero stars.
They've got a lot of Selvie types that play a limited snap count.
They've got some big bodies to stop the run that can rest in 2 minute stuff or long passing downs.
But no one making 'star' money or putting up star stats.

At DB however they have BY FAR the best safety tandem in football.

And it works because those safeties make the CBs and DL job easier. They can simply man cover in a limited window, rush on rush downs or run stop on run stopping downs. The safeties cover mistakes and protect against being fooled.

The safeties do not come off the field, the 8 DL all rotate in and out.

So when you plan to fix the defense try telling me again how it possibly makes sense to plan to use a guy like Jeff Heath EVERY DOWN so you can put resources into a 2nd round DT that will play half your defensive downs.

The Cowboys went into 2013 with a plan for 8 DL.
They also planned to plug Will Allen in as a stop gap at Safety backed up by a rookie 3rd rounder or the ghost of Matt Johnson whose played less football since being drafted than my dog.
The plan was flawed in the sense Ratliff was trying to murder the owner thus probably not sane nor likely to return.
That playing Spencer franchise money was a poor use of cap cash as it gave you nothing for him going forward and insured one of (if not) the highest single season cap totals for a DL signed in 2013.

I give Dallas passes on DL depth. Any sane person should.
Ware tailing off a bit and missing a game or three... foreseeable.
Ratliff leaving the reservation ... foreseeable.
Both happening... yuck but you took those chances.

Spencer missing 15 games > WTH???
Bass missing the season?? No Way. He wants to play and needs to play. Makes peanuts and is a rotation guy.
Crawford missing the year? Again, no way. May not be exactly sure where we plug in him or what his ceiling is yet but he's a legit rotation guy. EVERY bit as good as Michael Bennett, but no where near a Demarcus Ware.

All of that happening? Wow... that's simply not going to be something you next man up and overcome. Doesn't happen.
So again, I give Dallas a pass on the depth portion of DL issues if not on the highly paid front line guys they were gambling huge dollars on.

But Safety...
Let's review the god forsaken plan again shall we.

Will Allen???
Barry Church coming off serious injury and with zero experience???
Matt Johnson???
A rookie from Georgia State that lost by like 50 points per game????
This was THE PLAN????

That should be the plan AGAIN???

Cap hits for top 3 DL:
DE Chris Clemons $8,166,667
DE Red Bryant $7,600,000
DT Brandon Mebane $5,200,000

 

[Nova]

I agree with the OP.

Usually I'd go BPA for position of need, but we desperately need help on the DL and a TFred type trade back would be more welcomed in my opinion.

Plus I want to see what Wilcox can do with a little bit more time.

 

[foofighters]

Not sure you guys understand how the 4-3 is supposed to work but you rotate DL.
The Seattle DL is DEEPPPPPPP but has zero stars.
They've got a lot of Selvie types that play a limited snap count.
They've got some big bodies to stop the run that can rest in 2 minute stuff or long passing downs.
But no one making 'star' money or putting up star stats.

At DB however they have BY FAR the best safety tandem in football.

And it works because those safeties make the CBs and DL job easier. They can simply man cover in a limited window, rush on rush downs or run stop on run stopping downs. The safeties cover mistakes and protect against being fooled.

The safeties do not come off the field, the 8 DL all rotate in and out.

So when you plan to fix the defense try telling me again how it possibly makes sense to plan to use a guy like Jeff Heath EVERY DOWN so you can put resources into a 2nd round DT that will play half your defensive downs.

The Cowboys went into 2013 with a plan for 8 DL.
They also planned to plug Will Allen in as a stop gap at Safety backed up by a rookie 3rd rounder or the ghost of Matt Johnson whose played less football since being drafted than my dog.
The plan was flawed in the sense Ratliff was trying to murder the owner thus probably not sane nor likely to return.
That playing Spencer franchise money was a poor use of cap cash as it gave you nothing for him going forward and insured one of (if not) the highest single season cap totals for a DL signed in 2013.

I give Dallas passes on DL depth. Any sane person should.
Ware tailing off a bit and missing a game or three... foreseeable.
Ratliff leaving the reservation ... foreseeable.
Both happening... yuck but you took those chances.

Spencer missing 15 games > WTH???
Bass missing the season?? No Way. He wants to play and needs to play. Makes peanuts and is a rotation guy.
Crawford missing the year? Again, no way. May not be exactly sure where we plug in him or what his ceiling is yet but he's a legit rotation guy. EVERY bit as good as Michael Bennett, but no where near a Demarcus Ware.

All of that happening? Wow... that's simply not going to be something you next man up and overcome. Doesn't happen.
So again, I give Dallas a pass on the depth portion of DL issues if not on the highly paid front line guys they were gambling huge dollars on.

But Safety...
Let's review the god forsaken plan again shall we.

Will Allen???
Barry Church coming off serious injury and with zero experience???
Matt Johnson???
A rookie from Georgia State that lost by like 50 points per game????
This was THE PLAN????

That should be the plan AGAIN???

The Giants with a depleted secondary and an amazing front 4 would disagree with you when they won their SB's...