Validation that the Packers hold on every play

[DandyDon52]

The thing that bothers me is the inconsistencies of calls made by the different officiating crews. One crew calls more holding penalties, another crew will call more PI penalties while the next crew lets DBs maul the Wrs and then you have a crew pulling obscure penalties out of the rule book. Who is training these officials that causes them to be so inconsistent? The NFL needs a better training program for the officials so every crew understands what should or shouldn't be called a penalty and if the official shows continued inconsistency in their calls they should be fired.

inconsistencies of calls would allow just what we have, refs influencing games and you cant really say it is intentional due to
the inconsistencies of calls >>??
pulling obscure penalties out of the rule book....... this could be something the packers noticed dallas does in film, so they told
officials to look for it.

A lot of money is bet on these games, so influencing them to favor the bettiing industry could be possible.
It would not be about favorites or liking or not liking a team.
it would be about the money .

anyone know what the final spread was on the game??
Could be they needed GB to win if money was mostly on cowboys.
Being a ref is a part time job , and they all have other jobs, with all the money the nfl makes, they could easily afford to pay them
better and make it a full time job.

until that ref strike few years ago, they didnt make much at all.

 

[TheHerd]

This Cowboys team with Dak at the helm is a team of winners that are only going to get better, and the NFL better watch out!

We will get better, and we will be the better team again next year. And we will get screwed again. I'm not holding my breath that any long Zeke runs won't get the yellow graphic.

 

[DallasEast]

Good thread. I’ll add a tidbit about officiating that everyone may not be aware of. There are seven officials surveying every pass play but only ONE official, the Umpire, is charged with identifying and calling ALL blocking penalties (although the Referee does pay attention to what the tackles are doing). Here’s an excellent resource for understanding the individual duties of officiating crews:

http://operations.nfl.com/the-offic...ly-good/officials-responsibilities-positions/

What Mike Pereira said in the article linked in the opening post by @perrykemp:

You judge it as an official not by the position of the hands. It’s more judging by what it keeps a defender from doing.

We always said, ‘Show me something.’ If (the rusher) tries to get away and he’s turned because the (blocker) has got his hands outside the edge of the shoulder pad, then you have the potential for holding. If he ain’t doing nothing, you ain’t got nothing.

Essentially, this is the guiding perspective that the umpire (remember he's basically the ONLY official on the field responsible or even cares about illegal blocking along or near the line of scrimmage) governing each time a flag is thrown or not thrown. Sure, there are grey areas but that officiating perspective should always be called into question every time an offensive lineman has his man turned slightly or directly turned perpendicular to the line of scrimmage OR, as @theogt properly described, the offensive lineman has his man in a freaking choke hold.

The league would frown on it (or prevent it altogether) but I wish some sports talk show would interview some select umpires, show them clips of passing plays they officiated involving what the public sees as blatant holding, ask them why those plays didn’t merit flags. Those kinds of segments would be interesting for me at least.

 

[Everson24]

The refs have a decison to make a call or ignore a call. They choose to ignore those calls on GB's oline. Believe me, our fanbase is not the first to complain about it. But then again, it is said that they could call a holding on every offensive line in every game at every snap.

This is the NFL's best trump card. This, along with illegal contact call on defense that can also be called on every play. All the NFL has to do is show the viewers what the NFL wants in slow motion to justify the call or not show the replay at all. Just think of how many illegal contact calls are made at the end of games on 3rd and long plays just to keep the games going. It's all about ratings and keeping the games close in the regular season and then it goes to keeping the best QBs playing as long as possible in the playoffs.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Based on this info, I'd wouldn't pour a bunch of resources into an Oline. Instead, use the " Greenbay" techniques with some jags, and use all of my resources of the Dline. 3-4 first rd picks on the Dline.

 

[Doomsay]

That could be if they had seen this in film and it wasnt called.
If so that is smart, and in playoffs it is smart to see what you can get away with like holding pass interference etc.

If this was truly the case, then I would think that the refs would have a duty to inform the other team before the game that this type of penalty might get called, just like they warn Norman or OBJ that they are going to be monitored for aggressive play. The goal is (or should be) to reduce penalties in a game not catch one team out on some arcane rule with a colussive assistance of an opposing team.

 

[Doomsay]

Based on this info, I'd wouldn't pour a bunch of resources into an Oline. Instead, use the " Greenbay" techniques with some jags, and use all of my resources of the Dline. 3-4 first rd picks on the Dline.

They appeared to be more successful in at least pass blocking than our OL on Sunday and our DL was playing at a pretty high level over the past month or so.

 

[DogFace]

inconsistencies of calls would allow just what we have, refs influencing games and you cant really say it is intentional due to
the inconsistencies of calls >>??
pulling obscure penalties out of the rule book....... this could be something the packers noticed dallas does in film, so they told
officials to look for it.

A lot of money is bet on these games, so influencing them to favor the bettiing industry could be possible.
It would not be about favorites or liking or not liking a team.
it would be about the money .

anyone know what the final spread was on the game??
Could be they needed GB to win if money was mostly on cowboys.
Being a ref is a part time job , and they all have other jobs, with all the money the nfl makes, they could easily afford to pay them
better and make it a full time job.

until that ref strike few years ago, they didnt make much at all.

Speaking of betting and lines etc. I heard a prominent odds maker on a radio show last year that said when Duke was playing in the NCAA tourney the amount of bs calls in their favor was greatly taken into account. I wonder if any NFL teams get this kind of line adjustments.

 

[sbark]

Would teaching G.Bay's shoulder pad grap to just Doug Free literally extend his career and effectivness?

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I thought there was something odd about not hearing Irvings name ...especially towards end of game.


I have always said there should be independent, real time/ in game oversight of the referees.

Seattle beat the Stealers in super bowl and were robbed.
Playoff games were altered.

I don't like it.

 

[J_Allen]

Green Bay didn't have any touchdowns or interceptions called back in that game. You must not be remembering correctly.

I'm afraid not. That was a fumble by Irvin (not an interception) that was returned for a touchdown. Also it was shown that Green Bay actually snapped the ball on time and scored a touchdown. Both were called back.

 

[perrykemp]

Based on this info, I'd wouldn't pour a bunch of resources into an Oline. Instead, use the " Greenbay" techniques with some jags, and use all of my resources of the Dline. 3-4 first rd picks on the Dline.

Interesting take.

Packers have three 4th round picks, one UDFA, and one 1st rounder (Buluga) on their starting OL.

If I had to guess, it probably one of the least 'invested in' OLs in the entire NFL... yet they are considered by many to the best pass pro OL in the league.

I guess credit to the Packers OL coach for coming up with a blocking approach that has become a enormous talent equalizer...

 

[VACowboy]

Interesting take.

Packers have three 4th round picks, one UDFA, and one 1st rounder (Buluga) on their starting OL.

If I had to guess, it probably one of the least 'invested in' OLs in the entire NFL... yet they are considered by many to the best pass pro OL in the league.

I guess credit to the Packers OL coach for coming up with a blocking approach that has become a enormous talent equalizer...

GB plays OL like Seattle DB's cover. They can't call 'em all!

 

[TheHerd]

Based on this info, I'd wouldn't pour a bunch of resources into an Oline. Instead, use the " Greenbay" techniques with some jags, and use all of my resources of the Dline. 3-4 first rd picks on the Dline.

You need good OL if you want to run. Passing teams get away with whatever they want, as long as you have a celeb QB.

 

[Don Corleone]

It is only holding if it gets called.

 

[Doomsay]

Interesting take.

Packers have three 4th round picks, one UDFA, and one 1st rounder (Buluga) on their starting OL.

If I had to guess, it probably one of the least 'invested in' OLs in the entire NFL... yet they are considered by many to the best pass pro OL in the league.

I guess credit to the Packers OL coach for coming up with a blocking approach that has become a enormous talent equalizer...

If they play in the Super Bowl, my sense is that these advantages get somewhat neutralized by the two equally "influential" teams that they would face. I can envision a lot of pre-game moral suasion by the Pats or Steelers front offices.

 

[DandyDon52]

Good thread. I’ll add a tidbit about officiating that everyone may not be aware of. There are seven officials surveying every pass play but only ONE official, the Umpire, is charged with identifying and calling ALL blocking penalties (although the Referee does pay attention to what the tackles are doing). Here’s an excellent resource for understanding the individual duties of officiating crews:

http://operations.nfl.com/the-offic...ly-good/officials-responsibilities-positions/

What Mike Pereira said in the article linked in the opening post by @perrykemp:


Essentially, this is the guiding perspective that the umpire (remember he's basically the ONLY official on the field responsible or even cares about illegal blocking along or near the line of scrimmage) governing each time a flag is thrown or not thrown. Sure, there are grey areas but that officiating perspective should always be called into question every time an offensive lineman has his man turned slightly or directly turned perpendicular to the line of scrimmage OR, as @theogt properly described, the offensive lineman has his man in a freaking choke hold.

The league would frown on it (or prevent it altogether) but I wish some sports talk show would interview some select umpires, show them clips of passing plays they officiated involving what the public sees as blatant holding, ask them why those plays didn’t merit flags. Those kinds of segments would be interesting for me at least.

this is the nfl's fault, one guy isnt enough to watch 5 sets of guys during a play, and that is just the linemen.
So this is done on purpose so the calls will be inconsistent, and a lot of no calls.
no wonder GB came up with this new style, it is hard to see, and only one guy watching lol.

 

[nathanlt]

Just want to point out here that the Packers O-line hasn't been called for holding in playoff game in 3 years, and that penalty wasn't accepted. The last accepted holding call was 5 years ago. We're talking a span of 10 games since their last offensive holding call, more than half a regular season schedule of 16. There is something to the theory that the league protects Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs.

 

[greatwallofdallas]

Excerpt from an old article I posted on another thread ....

 

[DallasEast]

this is the nfl's fault, one guy isnt enough to watch 5 sets of guys during a play, and that is just the linemen.
So this is done on purpose so the calls will be inconsistent, and a lot of no calls.
no wonder GB came up with this new style, it is hard to see, and only one guy watching lol.

lol. That's pretty much the standard for high school on up.