Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

[Bob Dole]

Greg entered the deal thinking that his job title was "defensive end". Now they want to give him a different title "linebacker" and not discuss his contract.

That's like the owner of a advertising business taking the mail room manager and putting him in charge of janitorial duties. Or taking your marketing guys and putting them in the technical department... and then assuming that they should still work for what they agreed to work for at those other jobs.

Worse than this, the Cowboys have the rights to Ellis. And he doesn't have a choice in being the marketing guy who went to the technical department and ask for a raise. Keep in mind Greg switched jobs, not because he wanted to, but because the team needed him to - and he did a good job in doing that.

He should get a raise because he switched positions? That's his job. He's a football player. You sign a contract and then you do whatever you can do to help your team. It was never written in stone that Ellis had to be a DE for the duration of his contract. Ellis helped the team by switching positions (although he whined like a little girl while doing it), that was very good of him, but that's what he gets paid for. Switching positions a few years ago doesn't mean we should pay him more money NOW when he's at the end of his career. That's just stupid.

Further more, since you're not considering that Greg Ellis is playing OLB NOW, as in THIS YEAR. Throw all the statistical garbage about how be played at DE out the window. It is completely and entirely useless and irrelevant. And I think, then, you'll find your self experiencing a sense of enlightenment.

I think the most obvious fallacy in your thinking is assuming that DE and OLB are even close to being the same thing.

Greg played well in the 9 games we saw him play in last year. In fact, he was our best player on the front for over the first half of the season. And there is a direct correlation to his injury and the defensive decline.

Denying that is senseless.

Yes, he's playing out of his original position at a position that he doesn't seem to really like playing. Even more reason to pay him right?! Oh, wait....

He was not anywhere near our best player last year and the fact that he's so overrated by some people makes Bob Dole sick. He was decent enough, but he wasn't as good as Ware or Fergie up front. The defensive collapse would have happened with or without Ellis in the lineup. The defense was great in the three games following his injury.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

Julian Peterson was injured less than three years ago, yet took two years.

Has there been some sort of medical breakthrough I am not aware of?

Especially one that is designed to not only make a complete recovery in a little over six months yet also combine well with a 32 year old body that never was explosive to begin with? Do tell.

I am not expecting much from him. And if he shuts up and plays, I am perfectly fine with having him keeping Anthony's spot warm.

My poor Alexander. You seem ignorant about the matter as a whole. Allow me to guide you to a state of aporia so that you will know that you don't know what you think you know - and maybe then, you will search a little further for the truth of the matter.

It is known among the medical community that these sorts of injuries are unique to the person injured. In other words, some make faster recoveries than others as they depend on physical recovery, circumstances and seriousness of the injury. The medical experts who have examined Greg's knee say that he is in route to make a full recovery by the time the season begins.

Do you question the Cowboys' staff ability to assess these things?

You speak of this as if it is a blanket issue when it is not. Which seems to be a quite foolish line of thinking if you ask me. And yes, medical advancements have been made. You hear about it all the time in sports these days.

What were once known as career ending injuries are now just merely setbacks.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

He should get a raise because he switched positions? That's his job. He's a football player. You sign a contract and then you do whatever you can do to help your team. It was never written in stone that Ellis had to be a DE for the duration of his contract. Ellis helped the team by switching positions (although he whined like a little girl while doing it), that was very good of him, but that's what he gets paid for. Switching positions a few years ago doesn't mean we should pay him more money NOW when he's at the end of his career. That's just stupid.

So move your kicker to starting quarterback and don't give him a raise?

Your free safety becomes your best cornerback and you pay him pennies, right?

Yes, he's playing out of his original position at a position that he doesn't seem to really like playing. Even more reason to pay him right?! Oh, wait....

He was not anywhere near our best player last year and the fact that he's so overrated by some people makes Bob Dole sick. He was decent enough, but he wasn't as good as Ware or Fergie up front. The defensive collapse would have happened with or without Ellis in the lineup. The defense was great in the three games following his injury.

You're going to laugh when I say this, but I know a guy named Fon Dole.... I always say that Bob was his dad...

But back to the point. Greg played great at OLB in his first year. It would upgrade our team if we had him there again this year. I say pay him because it's worth it and it's GOOD BUSINESS. We'll just have to disagree due to differing business philosophies. I just know that I would never want to work for you. And by the way we've treated Greg, i'm not sure many players; whether they be free agents, trades, or draftees, would want to play for the cowboys, if given a choice of a team who treats its players in a more frank manner.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

well with a 32 year old body that never was explosive to begin with? Do tell.

I am not expecting much from him. And if he shuts up and plays, I am perfectly fine with having him keeping Anthony's spot warm.

So you want someone who you're not expecting much from to back up Spencer? Who hasn't even been declared the starter?

Man, your game planning scares me.

 

[Alexander]

My poor Alexander. You seem ignorant about the matter as a whole. Allow me to guide you to a state of aporia so that you will know that you don't know what you think you know - and maybe then, you will search a little further for the truth of the matter.

Are you attempting to be wordy in a vain attempt to appear intelligent?

By the way, you used the word aporia wrong. Why would you want to guide me towards being puzzled? According to you, I already am.

It is known among the medical community that these sorts of injuries are unique to the person injured. In other words, some make faster recoveries than others as depend on physical recovery, circumstances and seriousness of the injury. The medical experts who have examined Greg's knee say that he is in route to make a full recovery by the time the season begins.

It is not a knee, genius. It is his Achille's tendon. It is not even close.

Do you question the Cowboys' staff ability to assess these things?

Not at all. I just think they are hopeful.

You speak of this as if it is a blanket issue when it is not. Which seems to be a quite foolish line of thinking if you ask me. And yes, medical advancements have been made. You hear about it all the time in sports these days.

Once more, clue us all in concerning the breakthroughs in Achilles treatments. And while you are at it, demonstrate how well it has worked with 32 year olds.

So you want someone who you're not expecting much from to back up Spencer? Who hasn't even been declared the starter?

What part about "keep the spot warm" implies backup to you?

And an excellent dodge of my direct question about the wonders of modern medicine, I might add.

I do not expect an effective Ellis and eventually Spencer will take over for him. It is that simple.

 

[Hostile]

Man, Alexander is delivering a beat down in this thread.

 

[Bob Dole]

So move your kicker to starting quarterback and don't give him a raise?

Your free safety becomes your best cornerback and you pay him pennies, right?

1.) Greg Ellis isn't being paid pennies.

2.) He wasn't asked to reinvent the wheel. He switched from DE to OLB. A *little* bit different than K to QB. A noble thing to do, but helping his football team is what he gets paid millions of dollars to do.

But anyway, to answer your question, let's say the kicker that switched to Qb was in the 34-36 years old (I think 36 in QB years is about equivalent to 32 in DE/OLB years) and coming off of major arm surgery - hell no, he wouldn't get a contract.

You're going to laugh when I say this, but I know a guy named Fon Dole.... I always say that Bob was his dad...

But back to the point. Greg played great at OLB in his first year. It would upgrade our team if we had him there again this year. I say pay him because it's worth it and it's GOOD BUSINESS. We'll just have to disagree due to differing business philosophies. I just know that I would never want to work for you. And by the way we've treated Greg, i'm not sure many players; whether they be free agents, trades, or draftees, would want to play for the cowboys, if given a choice of a team who treats its players in a more frank manner.

He played solid. He was never great. He provided solid pressure off the edge but was not a dominant force and is production is not that hard to replace. Anthony Spencer can at least match that this year and it seems like the coaches expect him to.

The way they've treated Greg? Really? What a horrible career he's had here, right? The guy is one of the biggest crybabies in the league but somehow fools people like you into thinking he's a saint.

It's not going to stop anyone from coming here. In fact, most players are probably going to wonder why we didn't cut him when he had his first hissy fit a few years ago over changing positions.

Look at SUCCESSFUL NFL franchises like the Patriots and Eagles. Do you really think they'd extend Greg Ellis? Hell no. They know when it's time to cut ties with guys like that. He's done well here and has been paid well, but at a certain point you have to do what's best for business and best for the football team. Giving a raise to a man at the end of his career is not best for either.

 

[5Stars]

I just know that I would never want to work for you.

I wish I could work for you!

If I was coming off a nasty injury at age 32, whined and moaned about being underpaid, not knowing if I could/would last the whole season at top peak condition...and you tell me, "Don't worry, old 5Stars, that advanced medicine that just fixed you up, you will be just as good as new! As a matter of fact...I'm going to give you a raise because you are such a wonderful, nice guy! I won't worry about losing my investment in you if you get injured again right off the bat. You're to classy and such a good leader that I don't care about all that. Have a good day, 5Stars, and tomorrow, when you wake up, mo money, mo money, mo money, will be in your bank account"

Where do I apply, AnyGivenSunday?

 

[BouncingCheese]

Alexander, you are 100 percent right that he would not start for those aforementioned teams... But as I have been saying for a while Ellis will be on the Washington Commanders when Ellis leaves this team... he is mad at this team for how he feels he has been treated, and Washington SOOOO needs a pass rusher.

 

[quincyyyyy]

Man, Alexander is delivering a beat down in this thread.

Only because you agree with what he says.

 

[Alexander]

I wish I could work for you!

If I was coming off a nasty injury at age 32, whined and moaned about being underpaid, not knowing if I could/would last the whole season at top peak condition...and you tell me, "Don't worry, old 5Stars, that advanced medicine that just fixed you up, you will be just as good as new! As a matter of fact...I'm going to give you a raise because you are such a wonderful, nice guy! I won't worry about losing my investment in you if you get injured again right off the bat. You're to classy and such a good leader that I don't care about all that. Have a good day, 5Stars, and tomorrow, when you wake up, mo money, mo money, mo money, will be in your back account"

Where do I apply, AnyGivenSunday?

:laugh2:

 

[Big Dakota]

I haven't seen this much blood since Chuck "The Bayonne Bleeder" Wepner retired:laugh2:

 

[Alexander]

Only because you agree with what he says.

Actually it is because you and others cannot answer direct questions.

 

[Hostile]

Only because you agree with what he says.

He has thwarted you and the others at every turn. He has done so with facts, by showing your hypocrisy, and simple logic. In return you've dodged his questions, admitted your own rash statements, and basically not had one example of where he is wrong.

Keep it up. Anyone with synapses that fire can see it.

This has Janet Reno versus Jessica Alba in a bikini contest.

 

[5Stars]

Alexander, you are 100 percent right that he would not start for those aforementioned teams... But as I have been saying for a while Ellis will be on the Washington Commanders when Ellis leaves this team... he is mad at this team for how he feels he has been treated, and Washington SOOOO needs a pass rusher.

Ellis did good while he was healty, and I respect what he contributed to the team. However, you got the picture right! All broken down vets go to the RedStinks for that last big payday. It's like stealing from the blind!

 

[Ben_n_austin]

What part about "keep the spot warm" implies backup to you?

And an excellent dodge of my direct question about the wonders of modern medicine, I might add.

I do not expect an effective Ellis and eventually Spencer will take over for him. It is that simple.

Ah, make the comparison that players have sat out years at a time and devalue Ellis' worth, but you think Ellis is going to come back and start in front of Spencer (you answer your own medical question, genius). As well as point out the contradictions that I am so easily pointing out right now.

This is a perfect example of Recuctio ad absurdum: Ellis will not make a recovery, but Ellis will make a recovery. (Perplexing)


Contradiction at its finest.

Which is it?

You can see why I am entertained by this line of thinking that you have asserted. Perhaps you should take some time and recollect, and then revisit this at another time. Because you certainly aren't walking down any logical path of thinking.

You say, we shouldn't pay Ellis. But Ellis says if we don't pay him, he won't play if he's only 90%.

And by following your reasoning that, by your own admission, obviously holds Ellis in higher regards as a player than Spencer; even though he is coming off an injury, says a lot about what you really think Ellis is worth.

So you're saying that it is not worth it to pay him a reasonable increase if it makes our team better.... That's an extremely senseless point of view with many flaws in logical thinking.

 

[DallasEast]

Only because you agree with what he says.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1523134&postcount=100

 

[5Stars]

:laugh2:

Crap! I spelled "bank" wrong! Now PT is going to come here correcting me...again!

 

[Big Dakota]

OOOHHHH the imagery Hos

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He has thwarted you and the others at every turn. He has done so with facts, by showing your hypocrisy, and simple logic. In return you've dodged his questions, admitted your own rash statements, and basically not had one example of where he is wrong.

Keep it up. Anyone with synapses that fire can see it.

This has Janet Reno versus Jessica Alba in a bikini contest.

Yeah it is pretty bad. I dont understand if they thought like they do that it would at least be best to wait to see how Ellis responds to his rehab this season before even considering an extension.