Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

Maybe that's just the evolution of the NFL player. Just as with Lions rookie wr Calvin Johnson, who is 6-5 239. Maybe he is too big to play wideout, who cares about ability. He should be a linebacker instead.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?contentId=8790887&year=2007

quincyyyyy;1523271 said:
Parcells opinion on his size had nothing to do with the point I was making. All I wanted was the exact weight.

And I don't care where you are from 6-6 275 is a huge linebacker.
 
Not when he is injured. If he is healthy, and has the desire to play football and not whine about his off the field issues, he produces. But that hasn't been the case lately. He's more concerned about himself than the team, unlike Rivera. :lmao:

quincyyyyy;1523280 said:
So you are saying Ellis doesnt produce on the field?:lmao:
 
quincyyyyy;1523280 said:
So you are saying Ellis doesnt produce on the field?:lmao:

Not enough to earn a raise. Not enough to feel justified in tearing up a valid and fair contract to give an injured 32 year old the security he so very much craves basely solely on the idea his "leadership" is worth it.

Try to keep up.
 
PJCOWBOYS;1523283 said:
Maybe that's just the evolution of the NFL player. Just as with Lions rookie wr Calvin Johnson, who is 6-5 239. Maybe he is too big to play wideout, who cares about ability. He should be a linebacker instead.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?contentId=8790887&year=2007
That's not a very good argument. If Johnson couldn't run a 4.35 people would be saying he's too big and slow for a WR.

You can't take an athletic freak and compare him to an average player.
 
PJCOWBOYS;1523286 said:
He's more concerned about himself than the team, unlike Rivera. :lmao:
Right that is why he is helping train his eventual replacement... sure.
 
I am talking about size and weight, which is the arguement over Ellis. Duh. Ellis has shown the ability to play lb.

theogt;1523290 said:
That's not a very good argument. If Johnson couldn't run a 4.35 people would be saying he's too big and slow for a WR.

You can't take an athletic freak and compare him to an average player.
 
DallasEast;1523287 said:
I was referring to his weight range for '06.
Gotcha. I don't know his daily weight, but I'd say he probably hovered closer to 280 than 270.
 
Oh, then where are the comments from his TEAMMATES. Not teammate, but TEAMMATES (plural)?

quincyyyyy;1523291 said:
Right that is why he is helping train his eventual replacement... sure.
 
PJCOWBOYS;1523283 said:
Maybe that's just the evolution of the NFL player. Just as with Lions rookie wr Calvin Johnson, who is 6-5 239. Maybe he is too big to play wideout, who cares about ability. He should be a linebacker instead.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?contentId=8790887&year=2007

Both Johnson and Ellis are anomalies at their respective position, and both can still bring it. That is why they are so good. There are few 275 pound 6-6 at the age of 31 who have never stood in a 2 point stance in their life that can play OLB.
 
PJCOWBOYS;1523292 said:
I am talking about size and weight, which is the arguement over Ellis. Duh.
You argument was that some player is big and fast and that that is somehow relevant to a discussion about Ellis. Seems like a silly argument to me.

Ellis has shown the ability to play lb.
Ellis showed the ability to rush the QB from a 2-point stance. He wasn't very good in coverage, but opponents didn't attack him nearly as much as they should have. It's like Bradie James. He wasn't good in coverage early on in '06, but fans didn't notice it because teams didn't attack him.

This year at 260-265 he should be in a better position to play linebacker.
 
PJCOWBOYS;1523295 said:
Oh, then where are the comments from his TEAMMATES. Not teammate, but TEAMMATES (plural)?


You are ridiculous, I am sure you can find them for yourself. But I am going to get some lunch.
 
As long as I am not you, that makes my day! :)

quincyyyyy;1523298 said:
You are ridiculous, I am sure you can find them for yourself. But I am going to get some lunch.
 
theogt;1523293 said:
Gotcha. I don't know his daily weight, but I'd say he probably hovered closer to 280 than 270.
IMO, Ellis got a touch quicker as the season progressed last year. To me, that meant that he lost some weight to compensate as one factor. The other factor is the amount of physical exertion players must endure week after week, game after game. I would say that, between the beginning of the season until his injury, at average, Ellis hovered closer to 270 than 280.
 
DallasEast;1523303 said:
IMO, Ellis got a touch quicker as the season progressed last year. To me, that meant that he lost some weight to compensate as one factor. The other factor is the amount of physical exertion players must endure week after week, game after game. I would say that, between the beginning of the season until his injury, at average, Ellis hovered closer to 270 than 280.
I think he just got a touch more confident, which led to him playing a little less stilted.

Ellis doesn't have to "bulk up" to be 280 -- it's pretty close to his natural weight. When players have to push to keep weight on is usually when they lose it during the season because they're not able to do the things they need to do to keep it on as the season progresses. He was at ~295 in '05, so he has no problem keeping weight on. I don't think there's any reason to think he'd lose weight over the season, especially not over the 9 week span that he played.
 
Alexander;1523278 said:
You and Phoenix Talon should have children.

You both avoid direct questions, bring up extraneous information to avoid them and skirt the real issues when you are proven wrong.

BINGO!!

:star: :star: :star: :star: :star:
 
Alexander;1523288 said:
Not enough to earn a raise. Not enough to feel justified in tearing up a valid and fair contract to give an injured 32 year old the security he so very much craves basely solely on the idea his "leadership" is worth it.

Try to keep up.

Exactly normally players ask for contract restructuring after playing above their level of compensation. A devestating achilles tear and a bunch of 6 sack seasons just doesnt cut it. Heck Id even take a probowl as a good excuse for this behavior.

He should be worried about his future but most players realize that when their future stakes are based on their health and overall lack of top notch production they dont whine to the media.

If Ellis wants a better contract he should go out and earn it and stop trying to whine until he gets one.
 
quincyyyyy;1523298 said:
You are ridiculous, I am sure you can find them for yourself. But I am going to get some lunch.



You gonna buy Greg lunch? You ar his agent right?
 
superpunk;1522502 said:
That's a bit of a stretch for that statement, although an encouraging stretch.

It's best if we don't need him. he can just be a luxury we trot out occasionally.

That statement just belies his insecurity. It'd be like if your wife caught you with porn, and threw a fit, and said "You've got your women right there - what do you need me for?" (when it's blatantly clear what we need her for - cookies!)

Ellis is whining out essentially the same mantra, no matter hw much his reporter friends ;) defend him. "You've got your LB (as though ellis' disdain for the position is unknown...) what do you need me for?"

Lay off the estrogen.

Go Anthony Spencer.


To me, there is an enormous amount of fallacy with this line of thinking. Your philosophy approaches this issue as if Spencer's ability is set in stone.

That's because when Dallas Cowboys fans get excited about a new player their devout homerism takes complete and utter control (see Drew Henson) of their ability to reason and they become blinded by this overwhelming excitement that occurs in almost every tribe of football fans.

It's a phenomenon we see all the time.

We see this in places like Green Bay, with a player like Terry Glenn, where their really not too high on a player and they think he's washed up. But when they let him go, and he plays for someone who believes in him, and he knows they believe in him because they pay him money; he plays well - very well!

This concept is not hard to grasp.

And he (Greg Ellis) has a valid, if not sound, argument about his health and ability to get in there and play if he's 90% or whatever.... I can almost promise you that a 85% Greg Ellis is going to play that position better than a 100% Anthony Spencer; simply due to experience alone (and Greg is not done yet). Not to mention, what if Spencer gets hurt?

Then what?

Greg Ellis has value; especially at the LB spot. He's the best guy to play opposite of Ware. Sure you can rotate him in and out, but that's how you preserve the talent of a player like Ellis. And that's what we want.

He's a much better OLB than DE and he can have a longer career playing that position, too.


If you look at the defensive performance from last year, it went down tremendously after Ellis' injury. He's an asset to the team. But he's never had a great team to play on. And he was thriving at OLB last in his first year.

What do you think he could do in his second year?

Face the facts; don't blame Ellis (he was misled), we've sucked for the past 10 years. Yet, still, he likes being a Dallas Cowboy. And he's been wearing the star for almost a decade. And he really does have an opportunity to help this team - and push it over the top; to the next level.

If you don't believe that, you're not thinking about depth and rotation and situational circumstances. All of these things things should be taken into account.

These knee-jerk responses lack thought.

If we don't have Greg Ellis, the small chance that we have of winning the Super Bowl gets even smaller. Pay the guy. We have the money. And let's move on to making this team the most talented team throughout the roster.

I find that most Ellis bashers lack sense. Think about the big picture. And try stepping away from the knee-jerk reactions. First, consider that Ellis is an asset to our team; if only for depth purposes.




Then go from there.....
 
AGS, you appear to have just crafted a response base on your own misunderstandings of people's thoughts.

First of all, the notion that Spencer is an adequate replacement, which is what I quoted in my post, is one put out there by Ellis himself, with his insecure "You've got your LB, what do you need me for now" statement. I have yet to see anyone suggest that Spencer as a full-time replacement would be an upgrade.

But Ellis, because of his constant fear of competition and insecurity about his own abilities, put that out there. It was just pandering, to continue to look like the "good guy" (as if he's being shoved out) but still, those are his words, not mine.

Almost noone has begged for Ellis' release. He's our player, he's not causing problems save for being a whiner, most say just force him to play, and earn his 2.5 million. He signed a contract equal to his worth, it's on him to play it out. I really don't care if he's upset that he signed a seven year deal that looks paltry now - HE signed it, and so HE must honor it so long as the team does so in return.

Clearly Ellis can help this team. Once he gets off the rag, and realizes that 2.5 million dollars is better than none, he'll be back and contributing fine. People are just tired of hearing it from him, and those of us who knew Ellis was all about the money for years now are tired of being told what a great guy he is, and what a great discount he gave us. It's all a crock of horse-crap, as Ellis is what he is. A selfish, whiny, insecure player who doesn't trust his own abilities enough to welcome open competition and establish himself - REALLY establish himself - as a team leader. He'd rather play 4-3 DE, rack up sacks through three months, get paid and disappear in December.

And that's fine.

He just doesn't deserve any more money for that underwhelming performance.
 

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