Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

[Hostile]

Well first off you did not call him average or mediocre, you compared Ellis's level of play last year to Marco Rivera's.


Secondly, what ever Jerry decides is for the good of the team. I trust his and Stephen's judgement. If they decide its best to trade him, I am fine with that, or if they decide to increase the value of his contract, I am fine with that also. I am not going to pretend I know more than Jerry or Stephen in this matter.

No, he compared Greg Ellis' leadership and good guy status to Marco Rivera's to refute the silly stance you took that this was why we should not be so critical of Ellis. You really aren't paying attention or getting it are you? No wonder you can't see how badly he filleted you guys.

 

[DallasEast]

Detroit sucks now, it sucked when Barry was the running back, and it sucked before Barry Sanders. To say it sucked because of Barry Sanders is not a well thought out statement... even a rash statement!


And Barry Sanders is a really good runningback. Here is his career stats:

TM Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD
153 | 3062 15269 5.0 99 | 352 2921 8.3 10

And he often put up really good stats with a sub par offensive line. I would venture that his abilities would improve the roster of any team.

Julius Jones is like a poor Somalian's Barry Sanders.

Tampa Bay sucks now, it sucked when Lee Roy was the defensive end, and it sucked when they drafted Lee Roy Selmon. To say it sucked because of Lee Roy Selmon is not a well thought out statement... even a rash statement!


And Lee Roy Selmon is a really good defensive end. Here is his career stats:

Sacks | QB Pressures | FF
78 1/2 | 380 | 28 1/2


And he often put up really good stats with a sub par defensive line. I would venture that his abilities would improve the roster of any team.

Greg Ellis is like a poor Somalian's Lee Roy Selmon.

 

[quincyyyyy]

Oh look, I stirred up emotions. How cute.

In case you didn't notice there are a lot of years past between those bad Detroit teams and the current bad Detroit teams.

When I say they were bad because of him it has to do with one thing. He left them 2nd and long, and 3rd and long too many times because of his dancing around looking for a hole rather than just hitting the LOS. Too many of their offensive drives stalled because they didn't have options on 3rd down. They had to throw the ball and stop the blitz.

He was a fantastic weapon with a tragic flaw. That's why I wouldn't want him on my team. Okay, maybe as a kick or punt returner, but not as a RB.


And yeah, I put a LOT of thought into that opinion before I ever shared it with anyone. You see, my football opinions are not guided by fantasy stats, nor Madden ratings.

Umm, I don't get too emotional over detroit players. Secondly you are ignoring that while those situations did occur he more than made up for those flaws. his career average was 5 yards a carry that means if you give him the ball two times you are going to get a first down. That means those third and long have to be the exception rather than the rule, a common exception but still an exception.

Also on many of his teams he was the only star player and defenses would key in on him and he would still put up good stats. I bet you had a lot of Emmitt v. Barry debates, but just because Emmitt is a better back doesnt mean that Barry Sanders is not a back one would want to have on one's team.

 

[quincyyyyy]

No, he compared Greg Ellis' leadership and good guy status to Marco Rivera's to refute the silly stance you took that this was why we should not be so critical of Ellis. You really aren't paying attention or getting it are you? No wonder you can't see how badly he filleted you guys.

Sure.

I value results more than acts of altruism and kindness.

For example, I like what Rivera did here, but when he couldn't produce, he needed to go.

Per your sound logic, we should allow Rivera to stay and pay him his contract because he was such a solid person and mentor to all the young ones.

Sounded to me like he was saying Ellis doesn't produce on the field and we shouldn't continue to pay him just for his leadership value. Otherwise the comparison would make no sense.

Hos, what you say and what is reality are two different things.

 

[Hostile]

Umm, I don't get too emotional over detroit players. Secondly you are ignoring that while those situations did occur he more than made up for those flaws. his career average was 5 yards a carry that means if you give him the ball two times you are going to get a first down. That means those third and long have to be the exception rather than the rule, a common exception but still an exception.

Also on many of his teams he was the only star player and defenses would key in on him and he would still put up good stats. I bet you had a lot of Emmitt v. Barry debates, but just because Emmitt is a better back doesnt mean that Barry Sanders is not a back one would want to have on one's team.

I don't agree with that at all. If you remove his one big run per game his ypc is around 2.5 yards. Your explanation of 2 carries is a 1st down is beyond comical and extremely naive. Either you have no idea what you are talking about, or you never saw any of his games. Detroit was in 2nd and long or 3rd and long more than any team in the NFL directly because he was constantly being tackled for a loss or no gain as he danced around looking for a hole outside the LOS. Go look it up, he was tackled for a loss more than any RB in NFL History.

I did have a lot of Emmitt vs. Barry debates and occasionally still do. That doesn't mean anything.

 

[Alexander]

Well first off you did not call him average or mediocre, you compared Ellis's level of play last year to Marco Rivera's.

Apparently you either a serious reading disorder or you simply just like to make things up and then put two emoticons behind it to make it true. Either go find where I said their level of play was equal or be exposed as a liar. Regardless, I think you continually demonstrate your foolishness.

I stated I liked what Rivera did here. For example, taking time out to teach our OL when it was clear as day that he was going to be released. I like what his true leadership meant. But as mentioned before...he had to go if he couldn't produce. I did not allow myself to say let's hold onto him because he is a great leader.

You advocate paying Ellis for his leadership. I contend he isn't even as good as the player who was getting cut.

Ellis claims he is being a mentor and the writers mention it, but usually with comments to Spencer like "It's not his fault they are treating me like this." I can only imagine what else he is whispering in the young man's ear.

"Just remember, if they don't commit to you, you don't have to give as much on the field. Nevermind your teammates, while it is not their fault, you know you need to be wanted, you know?"

Secondly, what ever Jerry decides is for the good of the team. I trust his and Stephen's judgement. If they decide its best to trade him, I am fine with that, or if they decide to increase the value of his contract, I am fine with that also. I am not going to pretend I know more than Jerry or Stephen in this matter.

You are campaigning for Ellis' raise are you not? And bemoaning the fact that Jones won't meet with a player under contract. That doesn't sound like you are "fine" with what they are doing.

 

[quincyyyyy]

I don't agree with that at all. If you remove his one big run per game his ypc is around 2.5 yards. Your explanation of 2 carries is a 1st down is beyond comical and extremely naive. Either you have no idea what you are talking about, or you never saw any of his games. Detroit was in 2nd and long or 3rd and long more than any team in the NFL directly because he was constantly being tackled for a loss or no gain as he danced around looking for a hole outside the LOS. Go look it up, he was tackled for a loss more than any RB in NFL History.

I did have a lot of Emmitt vs. Barry debates and occasionally still do. That doesn't mean anything.

The some of those Detroit teams he was on would still suck without him, but apparently if they got rid of Barry Sanders according to your logic that would make them good teams... sure.

 

[Alexander]

Sounded to me like he was saying Ellis doesn't produce on the field and we shouldn't continue to pay him just for his leadership value. Otherwise the comparison would make no sense

This proves you really are demented or just like erecting strawmen to knock down because that is all you can handle.

 

[quincyyyyy]

You are campaigning for Ellis' raise are you not? And bemoaning the fact that Jones won't meet with a player under contract. That doesn't sound like you are "fine" with what they are doing.

You are obviously the one with the reading disorder. I have said again and again that I would support whatever Jerry does, but I don't appreciate all the bashing that is being heaped on Ellis. That is where I have my gripe. Complaining to the media is not in my book not such a big offense, and for all he has done for the team I am willing to over look that particular flaw in his personality. It is not like he is running dog fights or is using roids.

 

[quincyyyyy]

This proves you really are demented or just like erecting strawmen to knock down because that is all you can handle.

Attack me as much as you want, it won't cover up for that stupid stament you made.

 

[Hostile]

Sure.



Sounded to me like he was saying Ellis doesn't produce on the field and we shouldn't continue to pay him just for his leadership value. Otherwise the comparison would make no sense.

Hos, what you say and what is reality are two different things.

Can you read? Be serious, can you? Let's put his quote right back up, and let's go to English class.

I value results more than acts of altruism and kindness.

For example, I like what Rivera did here, but when he couldn't produce, he needed to go.

Per your sound logic, we should allow Rivera to stay and pay him his contract because he was such a solid person and mentor to all the young ones.

Do you know what altruism is? Maybe that's the issue. When he says he liked what Rivera did here he is talking about his altruism. Then he separates that from production. He further clarifies this by the last comment which is a direct shot at your commentary that Greg Ellis as a mentor is value.

No charge for the lesson. Do you need me to define altruism for you? I can.

 

[peplaw06]

Sure.



Sounded to me like he was saying Ellis doesn't produce on the field and we shouldn't continue to pay him just for his leadership value. Otherwise the comparison would make no sense.

Hos, what you say and what is reality are two different things.

You can't seriously think that Alex was saying that... He was stating that your logic is screwed up. Seriously, this needs to be your next investment. It will be worth it.

 

[PJCOWBOYS]

Man, this has turned into the ultimate soap opera now.

Okay. We won't know Ellis' value until he plays. Let his play determine it, not the petty arguements.

 

[Hostile]

The some of those Detroit teams he was on would still suck without him, but apparently if they got rid of Barry Sanders according to your logic that would make them good teams... sure.

LOL

Yeah, that's what it means. Look at Barry's last year in the NFL and Detroit's record. Take a look at when he left the team how it was completely in the lurch. Now explain to me why they won more games the year he left. Try not to strain for a spin controlled reason, just look at the obvious. In case you can't find the stat, they had far fewer 3 and outs that year.



Look it up, I already have and used it to base my opinion.

 

[Alexander]

Attack me as much as you want, it won't cover up for that stupid stament you made.

I don't need a diversion like attacking your lack of a brain to cover up for something I didn't say.

You know that wasn't even close to what I said. So basically you enjoy lying and do not mind being exposed as one? Fair enough. Off you go.

 

[quincyyyyy]

Can you read? Be serious, can you? Let's put his quote right back up, and let's go to English class.

Do you know what altruism is? Maybe that's the issue. When he says he liked what Rivera did here he is talking about his altruism. Then he separates that form production. He further clarifies this by the last comment which is a direct shot at your commentary that Greg Ellis as a mentor is value.

No charge for the lesson. Do you need me to define altruism for you? I can.

Your logic to explain away his ignorant statement is very abstruse.

He was saying Rivera was a good leader but didnt produce, so he wasn't of any value to the team any more. Then he compared it to Greg Ellis, who as I previously stated had value as a leader, and since he didn't produce he shouldn't be given the time of day. The comparison wouldn't make any sense otherwise. Stop coming up with these ridiculous explanations for his stupid and rash statement, it is quite sad.

And no need to be condenscending.

 

[DallasEast]

Your logic to explain away his ignorant statement is very abstruse.

Abstruse?

Maybe for you, but seemingly for the majority of other readers on this thread, not at all. And since his logic is sound, there isn't anything 'ignorant' about it.

 

[Jack-Reacher]

He was a fantastic weapon with a tragic flaw.

I absolutely concur with your statement hos, but I wonder if we would be saying the same things about Barry if he had been running behind the same line Emmitt was in the early 90's. I think a lot of Barry's creativity stemmed from a lack of holes and a complete lack of faith in his offensive line. I would still take Emmitt over Barry every day of the week, because I believe he was the better all around back, but I do wonder if Sanders would have been unstoppable if he could used his elusiveness 5 yards down field instead of in the backfield every time.

I still think the Gale Sayers was the greatest to ever play that position. Watching some of his runs is like poetry, that cat was simply amazing.

 

[peplaw06]

Your logic to explain away his ignorant statement is very abstruse.

Why does it NOT shock me that you think someone else's logic is abstruse??

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abstruse

 

[Jack-Reacher]

sigh

You lost me on this reply. I have clearly said that he should not have gone with this to the media.

Is it the act of going public with it in the first place the basis of cry baby references?