Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

[Hostile]

So much rage.

And damned proud of it. Thank you for noticing.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

I've been telling you for 5 years now that I don't talk politics except to say one thing, and you can quote me on this. Any other political jabs will hit air. Quote me on this, this is my entire political belief in one statement.

"Anyone who believes that either political party will make a difference is a fool. No matter which side is in power, the same issues will linger. The same needs will go unmet. Neither side is entirely right, nor entirely wrong. Neither side actually cares to fix anything. If they fix everything they are out of jobs. They make their living selling the simple minded on the other side that they can fix everything, and it would already be fixed if not for the other side. I am not a sheep and never will be."

That is my political philosophy and I don't care what yours or anyone else's is. I have no respect for a Democrat ridiculing me as a Republican, and vice versa. Frankly I consider that kind of profiling to be the epitome of ignorance. On both sides of the political fence. I vote my conscience, not a political party. Always have, always will.

I took no offense to what you said (until you once again bring politics into the conversation after 5 years of this BS), so I was nowhere near moody. I simply wanted to ridicule it, and so I did, and now you are moody.

Clear as mud?

I echo your political perspective. And I apologize for making a joke about the blundering Presidency. It won't happen again. I was just using it as an example to show the majority agree = majority is right theory/fallacy.

Other than that, I wouldn't dare ridicule someone with such a noble political stance. As mine has morphed into a clone of what yours is, apparently.

Once again, we agree where we first think we butt heads. . . .

OK, now let's get back to football before I get banned. I just wanted to make a public apology for acting in such a way when I know you better than that. It was my bad.

 

[Hostile]

I echo your political perspective. And I apologize for making a joke about the blundering Presidency. It won't happen again. I was just using it as an example to show the majority agree = majority is right theory/fallacy.

Other than that, I wouldn't dare ridicule someone with such a noble political stance. As mine has morphed into a clone of what yours is, apparently.

Once again, we agree where we first think we butt heads. . . .

OK, now let's get back to football before I get banned. I just wanted to make a public apology for acting in such a way when I know you better than that. It was my bad.

No apology necessary. Okay? But thank you.

Oh, and the football example of my opinion that goes away against the majority...Under no circumstances would I want Barry Sanders on my football team. I not only do not consider him the best RB ever, I don't even have him in my top 10. Very few people will ever agree with me on that, and I don't care. I won't change my opinion.

 

[quincyyyyy]

I've been telling you for 5 years now that I don't talk politics except to say one thing, and you can quote me on this. Any other political jabs will hit air. Quote me on this, this is my entire political belief in one statement.

"Anyone who believes that either political party will make a difference is a fool. No matter which side is in power, the same issues will linger. The same needs will go unmet. Neither side is entirely right, nor entirely wrong. Neither side actually cares to fix anything. If they fix everything they are out of jobs. They make their living selling the simple minded on the other side that they can fix everything, and it would already be fixed if not for the other side. I am not a sheep and never will be."

That is my political philosophy and I don't care what yours or anyone else's is. I have no respect for a Democrat ridiculing me as a Republican, and vice versa. Frankly I consider that kind of profiling to be the epitome of ignorance. On both sides of the political fence. I vote my conscience, not a political party. Always have, always will.

I took no offense to what you said (until you once again bring politics into the conversation after 5 years of this BS), so I was nowhere near moody. I simply wanted to ridicule it, and so I did, and now you are moody.

Clear as mud?

There are two things I base my vote on: science, and if your an eagles fan. Being an Eagles tells me a lot about someones character.

 

[Jack-Reacher]

Pretty easy to figure.

Ellis wants more money, if Jerry promised him more money Ellis would damn sure mention it since it makes him the victim

This is exactly my argument against assuming what Greg would or wouldn’t do, or what was said or wasn’t said. It isn’t easy to figure because we just don’t know if anything at all was promised or not.

I watched the locker room interview and I didn’t see a player (Ellis) that was whiny or complaining at all. I saw a guy airing a beef in a controlled manner. I didn’t see any hate portrayed. Maybe this is where we differ on the subject. I have stated plainly that I think Greg is wrong to air his difference in public, but I guess I don’t understand all of the whiny baby references. I just didn’t see that aspect of it.

I don’t see either side on this argument changing the others sides opinion of it. Heck, I am not even really arguing my point, I stated that I thought he should get an incentive laden reworked deal and I have stuck by that; I also understand the opposing view that he shouldn’t. I understand it, but I don’t agree with it. That doesn’t mean that I can’t respect the position most of you have taken on it, I just think your argument loses strength when we start assuming we know what has happened behind closed doors. I think the Front Office is obviously concerned about it, hence the meeting with his agent, and as long as they work it out I am happy whether he gets a new deal or not. I do think he has value on this team, and I believe that most on this board agree that he has value, the argument stems from how much.

The other argument that makes no sense to me, is the one that says we shouldn’t rework his deal because it sets a bad precedent. Every year in the off season, a veteran under contract, starts talking about holding out or wanting their contract reworked. This isn’t new to the NFL, and Greg feels that he is owed a new contract. Argue the fact that he is hurt for not deserving it, but by saying that it will set a precedent makes no sense to me.

Good Lord, I think I have posted more on this topic then I ever posted before…LOL



I guess I will crawl back to the sidelines and watch again.

 

[quincyyyyy]

I do think he has value on this team, and I believe that most on this board agree that he has value, the argument stems from how much.

Apparently Hos and Alexander think he has very little value.

 

[Big Dakota]

Has Greg EVER said Jerry said he'd give him more money? All Greg has ever said to my knowledge is the organization said "be a team guy". Well Greg, the same STILL applies.

 

[Big Dakota]

Apparently Hos and Alexander think he has very little value.

I'd venture to guess they think there is VERY LITTLE value in paying him more than he contracted to.

 

[quincyyyyy]

I'd venture to guess they think there is VERY LITTLE value in paying him more than he contracted to.

Nope they've bashed his playing.

 

[Hostile]

Apparently Hos and Alexander think he has very little value.

Apparently you have no clue what I think, or you can't read. I'll let you confess which one is true. I don't want to accuse.

 

[Hostile]

I'd venture to guess they think there is VERY LITTLE value in paying him more than he contracted to.

See, it wasn't hard to figure out at all.

 

[Big Dakota]

Nope they've bashed his playing.

For the 8th pick, i've bashed his play as well, as have 90% of Cowboys fans. Is he a huge bust like Ekuban? No. Is he a semi-disappointment ala Shante Carver? Considering where he was picked,and his production, for most fans, YES. Go do you a little pole on the larger Cowboys sites and you'll find you are in a very small minority who feel Ellis has a sack to stand on, pardon the pun. Does that make us right? No, it just makes us a majority. Both sides can argue but when one side has so few followers, as this thread will attest, you kinda get into the area of those who don't believe in God. Like the 10 percentile. When you get there, you are out in the cold my friend.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

No apology necessary. Okay? But thank you.

Oh, and the football example of my opinion that goes away against the majority...Under no circumstances would I want Barry Sanders on my football team. I not only do not consider him the best RB ever, I don't even have him in my top 10. Very few people will ever agree with me on that, and I don't care. I won't change my opinion.

Yeah, I'd take Tomlinson, Terrell Davis, Walter Peyton (sp?) and a few others before Barry. But you say you wouldn't have him on your team at all. I'd disagree with you there. And i'm not astounded that he's not in your top 10. He might not even make mine. Although I'd have to think about it.

Maybe I'll do that in the near future....

To the guy's credit, he never played for a good team. But he got the ball all the time and his team didn't win very much. Not to mention, consistancy.

It's a shame that he ended up in Detroit. But I can see the flaws in Barry Sanders. I just don't give them quite as much weight as you do. But like we've said, that's what makes these debates fun.

 

[Ben_n_austin]

This is exactly my argument against assuming what Greg would or wouldn’t do, or what was said or wasn’t said. It isn’t easy to figure because we just don’t know if anything at all was promised or not.

I watched the locker room interview and I didn’t see a player (Ellis) that was whiny or complaining at all. I saw a guy airing a beef in a controlled manner. I didn’t see any hate portrayed. Maybe this is where we differ on the subject. I have stated plainly that I think Greg is wrong to air his difference in public, but I guess I don’t understand all of the whiny baby references. I just didn’t see that aspect of it.

I don’t see either side on this argument changing the others sides opinion of it. Heck, I am not even really arguing my point, I stated that I thought he should get an incentive laden reworked deal and I have stuck by that; I also understand the opposing view that he shouldn’t. I understand it, but I don’t agree with it. That doesn’t mean that I can’t respect the position most of you have taken on it, I just think your argument loses strength when we start assuming we know what has happened behind closed doors. I think the Front Office is obviously concerned about it, hence the meeting with his agent, and as long as they work it out I am happy whether he gets a new deal or not. I do think he has value on this team, and I believe that most on this board agree that he has value, the argument stems from how much.

The other argument that makes no sense to me, is the one that says we shouldn’t rework his deal because it sets a bad precedent. Every year in the off season, a veteran under contract, starts talking about holding out or wanting their contract reworked. This isn’t new to the NFL, and Greg feels that he is owed a new contract. Argue the fact that he is hurt for not deserving it, but by saying that it will set a precedent makes no sense to me.

Good Lord, I think I have posted more on this topic then I ever posted before…LOL



I guess I will crawl back to the sidelines and watch again.

Oh, I think this is articulated very well. It shows thought. And I agree, it's almost silly to assume. But from what Greg is saying, one can only observe the implications involved and deduce that something was said.

Regardless of being right or wrong there, this post hits the nail right on the head and straight down into the coffin.

You should post more, dude. You have my blessing. LOL

 

[DallasEast]

...but I guess I don’t understand all of the whiny baby references. I just didn’t see that aspect of it.

sigh

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1523144&postcount=106

 

[Hostile]

Yeah, I'd take Tomlinson, Terrell Davis, Walter Peyton (sp?) and a few others before Barry. But you say you wouldn't have him on your team at all. I'd disagree with you there. And i'm not astounded that he's not in your top 10. He might not even make mine. Although I'd have to think about it.

Maybe I'll do that in the near future....

To the guy's credit, he never played for a good team. But he got the ball all the time and his team didn't win very much. Not to mention, consistancy.

It's a shame that he ended up in Detroit. But I can see the flaws in Barry Sanders. I just don't give them quite as much weight as you do. But like we've said, that's what makes these debates fun.

IMO, his teams weren't good because of him.

 

[Alexander]

Nope they've bashed his playing.

Like you have bashed Julius Jones' level of play?

Contrary to what you believe, not accepting average to mediocre is not "bashing". Nor is it "hating" or any of the other ridiculous buzzwords some people use when they cannot adequately articulate themselves any other way.

I have said it before, I am not advocating his release. And if he can play to the level of last year, I am perfectly fine with Ellis. I am also happy with his current contract. It is fair, especially given his age and injury status.

You see, I doubt he will be able to play to that level and I don't want to pay a single red cent for a player that cannot get any better than they are. I will not condone Jerry Jones being a fool and paying for "services rendered" just because people like you have a glowing opinion of Ellis as a human being.

 

[quincyyyyy]

IMO, his teams weren't good because of him.

Detroit sucks now, it sucked when Barry was the running back, and it sucked before Barry Sanders. To say it sucked because of Barry Sanders is not a well thought out statement... even a rash statement!


And Barry Sanders is a really good runningback. Here is his career stats:

TM Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD
153 | 3062 15269 5.0 99 | 352 2921 8.3 10

And he often put up really good stats with a sub par offensive line. I would venture that his abilities would improve the roster of any team.

Julius Jones is like a poor Somalian's Barry Sanders.

 

[Hostile]

Detroit sucks now, it sucked when Barry was the running back, and it sucked before Barry Sanders. To say it sucked because of Barry Sanders is not a well thought out statement... even a rash statement!


And Barry Sanders is a really good runningback. Here is his career stats:

TM Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD
153 | 3062 15269 5.0 99 | 352 2921 8.3 10

And he often put up really good stats with a sub par offensive line. I would venture that his abilities would improve the roster of any team.

Oh look, I stirred up emotions. How cute.

In case you didn't notice there are a lot of years past between those bad Detroit teams and the current bad Detroit teams.

When I say they were bad because of him it has to do with one thing. He left them 2nd and long, and 3rd and long too many times because of his dancing around looking for a hole rather than just hitting the LOS. Too many of their offensive drives stalled because they didn't have options on 3rd down. They had to throw the ball and stop the blitz.

He was a fantastic weapon with a tragic flaw. That's why I wouldn't want him on my team. Okay, maybe as a kick or punt returner, but not as a RB.


And yeah, I put a LOT of thought into that opinion before I ever shared it with anyone. You see, my football opinions are not guided by fantasy stats, nor Madden ratings.

 

[quincyyyyy]

Like you have bashed Julius Jones' level of play?

Contrary to what you believe, not accepting average to mediocre is not "bashing". Nor is it "hating" or any of the other ridiculous buzzwords some people use when they cannot adequately articulate themselves any other way.

I have said it before, I am not advocating his release. And if he can play to the level of last year, I am perfectly fine with Ellis. I am also happy with his current contract. It is fair, especially given his age and injury status.

You see, I doubt he will be able to play to that level and I don't want to pay a single red cent for a player that cannot get any better than they are. I will not condone Jerry Jones being a fool and paying for "services rendered" just because people like you have a glowing opinion of Ellis as a human being.

Well first off you did not call him average or mediocre, you compared Ellis's level of play last year to Marco Rivera's.


Secondly, what ever Jerry decides is for the good of the team. I trust his and Stephen's judgement. If they decide its best to trade him, I am fine with that, or if they decide to increase the value of his contract, I am fine with that also. I am not going to pretend I know more than Jerry or Stephen in this matter.