Vela's Blog - OLB Analysis

[MichaelWinicki]

Truth be known I would be happy with Lawson too. I think over time he would be an upgrade what we have currently at the position. I just don't think he would be as helpful this year as what Carpenter would be.

You have to remember that the blitz isn't a big part of a Parcell's defense so the opportunity to pass rush from the SOLB spot is considerably less than from the WOLB which is considered the "4th" pass rusher-- generally speaking of course.

So in essense what Lawson does best, i.e. rush the passer would be minimized and what he is less successful at, i.e. stopping the run and what he is less experienced at, i.e. pass coverage would cause him to be a completely different player than what he has been as of late. And that concerns me.

 

[theogt]

Rack, you simply don't understand the 3-4. I never said there isn't a strong and weak side. You just don't understand the roles of the OLBs in the 3-4. And its pretty obvious from Bill's statements what type of 3-4 he's intending to run. I suggest reading up on the 3-4 defense.

 

[Rack]

Rack, you simply don't understand the 3-4. I never said there isn't a strong and weak side. You just don't understand the roles of the OLBs in the 3-4. And its pretty obvious from Bill's statements what type of 3-4 he's intending to run. I suggest reading up on the 3-4 defense.

OMFG! lmao!​

Wow. It's funny cuz I know there's a few KNOWLEDGEABLE posters here that read that and laughed their *** off.


This is literally just like reading a post of someone telling me that 2+2 is 5. Hilarious.

 

[theogt]

I'm sorry, but it's true. I have no doubt that you understand the 4-3 defense. Most casual fans do. Your statements, however, constantly show a fundamental misunderstanding of the 3-4 defense and the role of the OLBs in that 3-4 defense.

 

[Rack]

Oh ok. My mistake.


It's obvious to everyone here that you have a great understanding of LBs and the 3-4 defense.



Seriously, you're a joke. You're good for a laugh now and then. There's plenty of people here that know as much or more about football then I do. You aren't one of them. You aren't even close. Hell I currently PLAY in a 3-4 defense (semi-pro) but you know more about the 3-4 then I do.

Yeah.

 

[theogt]

Seriously, you're a joke. You're good for a laugh now and then. There's plenty of people here that know as much or more about football then I do. You aren't one of them. You aren't even close. Hell I currently PLAY in a 3-4 defense (semi-pro) but you know more about the 3-4 then I do.

Yeah.

Look, I don't care if you coached the 3-4 in the friggin' NFL. Your statements are ridiculous and show a complete misunderstanding of whats going on.

 

[Rack]

Look, I don't care if you coached the 3-4 in the friggin' NFL. Your statements are ridiculous and show a complete misunderstanding of whats going on.

What "substance" you add to the debate.

I read you accusing me of not knowing about the 3-4, yet I don't see you actually picking out any specific thing I'm actually wrong about.


And we both know the reason for that. You don't know *** you're talking about.


I say again, you're a joke. You're MannyLove is reaching Nors' Tye Law levels. You should see a doctor. While you're there, ask him to teach you a thing or two about the 3-4 cuz I KNOW he knows more about it then you do.

 

[theogt]

What "substance" you add to the debate.

I read you accusing me of not knowing about the 3-4, yet I don't see you actually picking out any specific thing I'm actually wrong about.


And we both know the reason for that. You don't know *** you're talking about.


I say again, you're a joke. You're MannyLove is reaching Nors' Tye Law levels. You should see a doctor. While you're there, ask him to teach you a thing or two about the 3-4 cuz I KNOW he knows more about it then you do.

I've pointed the substance out many times, Rack. I can do it again for you. In the 3-4 defense, the LOLB does not have the traditional role of the SLB of the 4-3. The LOLB has a couple different responsibilities Sometimes he must cover the TE. Sometimes he simply acts as the LDE in a 4-3 defense. In both occasions, it is the LILB that has the run-stopping duties. Even in the traditional offensive line up that makes the LOLB the SOLB that is a misnomer. His responsibility isn't to stop the run. That's the responsibility of the LILB because in both instances he "slides over" and acts as the traditional 4-3 SLB. The LOLB's responsibility is usually either to 1. cover the TE or 2. get to the QB.

When selecting a LOLB for our type of 3-4, the emphasis is first placed on pass-rushing ability. The benefit of our 3-4 is that the QB doesn't know where the rush is coming from. Either the LOLB or the ROLB can act as a 4-3 DE in that sense.

Your mistake is thinking that the LOLB is the SOLB in the sense that his duty is run-stopping. That's the duty primarily of the LILB.

 

[Vintage]

I've pointed the substance out many times, Rack. I can do it again for you. In the 3-4 defense, the LOLB does not have the traditional role of the SLB of the 4-3. The LOLB has a couple different responsibilities Sometimes he must cover the TE. Sometimes he simply acts as the LDE in a 4-3 defense. In both occasions, it is the LILB that has the run-stopping duties. Even in the traditional offensive line up that makes the LOLB the SOLB that is a misnomer. His responsibility isn't to stop the run. That's the responsibility of the LILB because in both instances he "slides over" and acts as the traditional 4-3 SLB. The LOLB's responsibility is usually either to 1. cover the TE or 2. get to the QB.

When selecting a LOLB for our type of 3-4, the emphasis is first placed on pass-rushing ability. The benefit of our 3-4 is that the QB doesn't know where the rush is coming from. Either the LOLB or the ROLB can act as a 4-3 DE in that sense.

Your mistake is thinking that the LOLB is the SOLB in the sense that his duty is run-stopping. That's the duty primarily of the LILB.

Yes, your ILB have to be good at run stopping in the 3-4, or you will get killed. That doesn't mean the SOLB doesn't have a slightly different role than the WOLB. Again, teams typically run right.

The SOLB has to be good at taking on/shedding blocks. Also, he must be able to cover. I am not saying its not important for him to be a pass rusher either; but it doesn't have to be his #1 strength. The other things, coverage of TE's, jamming, ability to take on blocks/shed blocks are equally, if not more important at the SOLB spot.

The WOLB is your pass rusher. Lawson is that.

Ware is that.

We need a SOLB.

Carpenter is that. And Carpenter can also play inside too. That's just an added bonus, bec. it allows us flexibility.

 

[theogt]

Yes, your ILB have to be good at run stopping in the 3-4, or you will get killed. That doesn't mean the SOLB doesn't have a slightly different role than the WOLB. Again, teams typically run right.

The SOLB has to be good at taking on/shedding blocks. Also, he must be able to cover. I am not saying its not important for him to be a pass rusher either; but it doesn't have to be his #1 strength. The other things, coverage of TE's, jamming, ability to take on blocks/shed blocks are equally, if not more important at the SOLB spot.

The WOLB is your pass rusher. Lawson is that.

Ware is that.

We need a SOLB.

Carpenter is that. And Carpenter can also play inside too. That's just an added bonus, bec. it allows us flexibility.

You're getting closer to being right. Still not there yet, though.

 

[Rack]

I've pointed the substance out many times, Rack. I can do it again for you. In the 3-4 defense, the LOLB does not have the traditional role of the SLB of the 4-3..

Yes, a STRONG side Outside LB has the same responsibilities in a 3-4 that he has in a 4-3. In fact, due to not have as many defensive lineman to eat blocks a SOLB in the 3-4 must be even BETTER against the run then a 4-3 SLB.

If you knew half as much about the 3-4 as you think you do, you'd know this.

The LOLB has a couple different responsibilities Sometimes he must cover the TE.

The STRONG SIDE Outside LB in the 3-4 has to sometimes cover TEs, but the SLB in the 4-3 doesn't? You know even less about football then I originally though, and trust me, I didn't think you knew much.

Sometimes he simply acts as the LDE in a 4-3 defense.

Wow. So a SLB in a 4-3 acts as a DE sometimes? Why, cuz 4 defensive linemen isn't enough for the 4-3? They sometimes need one more?


It's funny watching you dig your own grave.

Even in the traditional offensive line up that makes the LOLB the SOLB that is a misnomer.

How can someone debate with you when you still don't even understand the difference between a SOLB and a LOLB?

His responsibility isn't to stop the run.

Yeah, take on lineman out (a 4-3) and add a LB (3-4) and that extra LBs job isn't to stop the run.

My god you're hilarious. I am literally laughing right now. :laugh2:

The LOLB's responsibility is usually either to 1. cover the TE or 2. get to the QB.

If the LOLB is on the weakside, he has ZERO responsibility covering the TE. Why? Cuz if the TE is lined up on the right, the LOLB is teh WEAKSIDE OLB.



Also, so what does the SOLB do when it's a run? Play pattycake with the other OLB?

When selecting a LOLB for our type of 3-4, the emphasis is first placed on pass-rushing ability

No, it isn't. As I stated before, since you have on LESS defensive linemen the SOLB has even MORE run stopping responsibility then the SLB in a 4-3.

Really, that should be common sense. But in your case...

Your mistake is thinking that the LOLB is the SOLB in the sense that his duty is run-stopping.

Well, I'm right about that so it's YOUR mistake thinking the STRONGSIDE OLB has no (as you put it) run stopping duties.



The ONLY key difference between a Sam in a 3-4 and a Sam in a 4-3 is that the Sam in a 3-4 has to ALSO have some pass rush abilities. But the run stopping duties in a 3-4 are even MORE important in a Sam in the 3-4 due to not getting as much support from the DL (1 less Defensive lineman incase you weren't following along).

You're getting closer to being right. Still not there yet, though.

 

[Vintage]

Bascially, Rack summed it up.

I can't talk much right now....I am trying to drink. As soon as my power half hour (60 shots of beer, 30 minutes) is over, I will be back to post more.

PBR is bad beer to do this with.

The only idea I had worse than this was starting it with actual shots of alcohol.

 

[theogt]

Rack. Please re-read my post and then edit your post. You misread so many things I don't know where to start.

I strongly question your ability to read, much less understand defenses.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

All I know is one thing, players with Carpenter's ability are easier to find than players with Manny's measurables. We can use Manny as a situational pass rusher til he is up to speed on the rest of what he needs to do as a OLB. We still have Singleton on the roster, and can use both of them depending on the situation.

Sure, I believe that Carpenter will be ready quicker to play full time, but this year we can also use Singleton (since we are paying him, lol) along with Manny, then next year or towards the end of the season, we can start to use Manny full time.

I like them both, and Wimbley for that matter. Carpenter will be ready almost immediately, IMO, which is an obvious advantage for him. But there are more ways peel this orange, and I think that aspect is being ignored.

 

[Rack]

Rack. Please re-read my post and then edit your post. You misread so many things I don't know where to start.

I didn't misread anything. I quoted each part individually so I obviously went over each part individually.


I already know what I knew before, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You know less about the 3-4 then my sister.

 

[theogt]

I didn't misread anything. I quoted each part individually so I obviously went over each part individually.


I already know what I knew before, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You know less about the 3-4 then my sister.

Rack, you completely misread it. You thought I was referring to one thing when I was talking about another. Are you drunk on this Sunday afternoon? :beer1:

 

[Woods]

All I know is one thing, players with Carpenter's ability are easier to find than players with Manny's measurables. We can use Manny as a situational pass rusher til he is up to speed on the rest of what he needs to do as a OLB. We still have Singleton on the roster, and can use both of them depending on the situation.

Sure, I believe that Carpenter will be ready quicker to play full time, but this year we can also use Singleton (since we are paying him, lol) along with Manny, then next year or towards the end of the season, we can start to use Manny full time.

I like them both, and Wimbley for that matter. But there are more ways peel this orange, and I think that aspect is being ignored.

Wouldn't it be ironic that after all the various discussions on which of the 3 OLBs to draft, we end up drafting one on Day 2 instead? :laugh2:

 

[Vintage]

All I know is one thing, players with Carpenter's ability are easier to find than players with Manny's measurables. We can use Manny as a situational pass rusher til he is up to speed on the rest of what he needs to do as a OLB. We still have Singleton on the roster, and can use both of them depending on the situation.

Sure, I believe that Carpenter will be ready quicker to play full time, but this year we can also use Singleton (since we are paying him, lol) along with Manny, then next year or towards the end of the season, we can start to use Manny full time.

I like them both, and Wimbley for that matter. But there are more ways peel this orange, and I think that aspect is being ignored.

Really? Players that can cover, jam, rush the passer, take on blockers, shed blockers.......are common?

Is that why NE has such an interest in Carpenter? Because he is that common?

 

[Vintage]

Rack, you completely misread it. You thought I was referring to one thing when I was talking about another. Are you drunk on this Sunday afternoon? :beer1:

I am working on it as I type.

No lie.

 

[theogt]

I am working on it as I type.

No lie.

I wish I could say the same. I have too many irons in the fire right now though.