Video: Eagles big 3rd down conversion... Roy's fault?

[Nexx]

was it his fault, not 100% sure. would a good safety make that play, you betcha. for all the apologists, lets ignore the bad/missed plays roy has made, can you remember the good ones that he has made? if so, they are a few and far between.

 

[djtavo]

how can u focus a loss on Roy...
Roy plays on defense they did their job.. even if it was his fault what?
how many times did romo mess up ??

 

[AdamJT13]

Doesn't change the fact that Roy didn't do what he was supposed to do.

So tell us, what was Roy supposed to do on that play?

Don't you think if he was as good as all of you said he was there wouldn't be a need to continually come in here and defend his play?

If people would actually blame the people who ARE to blame on every play, there would be no need to defend him so often.

Who did YOU blame for Westbrook's last run? Roy, of course. But as TEK and I have said in this thread, put Roy in other players' spots on the field doing the SAME things they did, and who would you and a lot of other people blame each and every time? Roy, of course.

On Westbrook's run, imagine Roy in the spot Ellis occupied. At the snap, he rushes 3 yards into the backfield, letting the tight end block him out of the play and opening up a huge hole on the edge. Who would get blamed? Roy, for "running himself out of the play," "taking a bad angle" and "rushing into the backfield when everyone knew it was a run up the middle." That's exactly what Ellis did, but is anyone blaming Ellis?

Now imagine Roy in the spot Bradie James occupied. At the snap, he fills the hole over the tackle and gets blocked by Runyan. He disengages to the inside, then starts running toward the outside, gets slightly pushed by Runyan again and misses a lunging tackle attempt as Westbrook runs by. Who would get blamed? Roy, for "running into the blocker instead of trying to make the play," "going inside when Westbrook was going outside" and for "missing the tackle." That's exactly what James did, but is anyone blaming James?

Now imagine Roy in the spot Newman occupied. He lines up outside, over Reggie Brown. At the snap, Brown runs toward the middle along the line of scrimmage to make a crackback block, leaving Roy unblocked. Westbrook comes through the hole toward Roy, cuts inside, and Roy misses the open-field tackle at the 19. Who would get blamed? Roy, for "missing an easy tackle that allowed the final first down." That's exactly what Newman did, but is anyone blaming Newman?

On the actual play, Roy got caught looking inside, as did James. (Neither player might have even seen Westbrook until he came to the outside, given the bunched-up players in the middle.) Then Brown, who was coming in from the outside for that crackback, blocked Roy. Out of the four players I just mentioned, Roy would deserve the LEAST amount of blame. But which one did you blame? Roy, of course.

On the 29-yard pass, it's the same thing. If it was Roy in Hamlin's spot, doing the same thing Hamlin did, Roy would be getting the blame. ("He was the safety on the tight end's side" ... "they were targeting him" ... "he was covering the wrong guy" ... "he looked lost out there.") If it was Roy in Davis' spot, Roy would be getting the blame. (That would be correct.) And Roy in his own spot IS getting the blame, even though he did what he was supposed to do. Put Bradie James or Kevin Burnett in Roy's spot, doing the same thing Roy did, and NOBODY would be blaming them. They'd be blaming one of the safeties (if one was Roy, it most certainly would be that one).

There are numerous examples of plays like this all season. (I've posted about it several times before.) Anytime Roy is in the vicinty OR gets zeroed in on by the cameras after a play, he gets blamed, no matter who actually is to blame. Sometimes, he really is to blame (Burress' TD, Cooley's TD, Watson's 28-yard catch, etc.). Sometimes, he is not. But it doesn't really matter, because no matter who is really responsible, Roy ALWAYS gets blamed by the fans and many of the media.

 

[Hoofbite]

So tell us, what was Roy supposed to do on that play?




If people would actually blame the people who ARE to blame on every play, there would be no need to defend him so often.

Who did YOU blame for Westbrook's last run? Roy, of course. But as TEK and I have said in this thread, put Roy in other players' spots on the field doing the SAME things they did, and who would you and a lot of other people blame each and every time? Roy, of course.

On Westbrook's run, imagine Roy in the spot Ellis occupied. At the snap, he rushes 3 yards into the backfield, letting the tight end block him out of the play and opening up a huge hole on the edge. Who would get blamed? Roy, for "running himself out of the play," "taking a bad angle" and "rushing into the backfield when everyone knew it was a run up the middle." That's exactly what Ellis did, but is anyone blaming Ellis?

Now imagine Roy in the spot Bradie James occupied. At the snap, he fills the hole over the tackle and gets blocked by Runyan. He disengages to the inside, then starts running toward the outside, gets slightly pushed by Runyan again and misses a lunging tackle attempt as Westbrook runs by. Who would get blamed? Roy, for "running into the blocker instead of trying to make the play," "going inside when Westbrook was going outside" and for "missing the tackle." That's exactly what James did, but is anyone blaming James?

Now imagine Roy in the spot Newman occupied. He lines up outside, over Reggie Brown. At the snap, Brown runs toward the middle along the line of scrimmage to make a crackback block, leaving Roy unblocked. Westbrook comes through the hole toward Roy, cuts inside, and Roy misses the open-field tackle at the 19. Who would get blamed? Roy, for "missing an easy tackle that allowed the final first down." That's exactly what Newman did, but is anyone blaming Newman?

On the actual play, Roy got caught looking inside, as did James. (Neither player might have even seen Westbrook until he came to the outside, given the bunched-up players in the middle.) Then Brown, who was coming in from the outside for that crackback, blocked Roy. Out of the four players I just mentioned, Roy would deserve the LEAST amount of blame. But which one did you blame? Roy, of course.

On the 29-yard pass, it's the same thing. If it was Roy in Hamlin's spot, doing the same thing Hamlin did, Roy would be getting the blame. ("He was the safety on the tight end's side" ... "they were targeting him" ... "he was covering the wrong guy" ... "he looked lost out there.") If it was Roy in Davis' spot, Roy would be getting the blame. (That would be correct.) And Roy in his own spot IS getting the blame, even though he did what he was supposed to do. Put Bradie James or Kevin Burnett in Roy's spot, doing the same thing Roy did, and NOBODY would be blaming them. They'd be blaming one of the safeties (if one was Roy, it most certainly would be that one).

There are numerous examples of plays like this all season. (I've posted about it several times before.) Anytime Roy is in the vicinty OR gets zeroed in on by the cameras after a play, he gets blamed, no matter who actually is to blame. Sometimes, he really is to blame (Burress' TD, Cooley's TD, Watson's 28-yard catch, etc.). Sometimes, he is not. But it doesn't really matter, because no matter who is really responsible, Roy ALWAYS gets blamed by the fans and many of the media.

This is so true that it isn't even funny. 11 guys on the field and Roy's is always made out to be the person at fault.

 

[TheBeheader31]

The angle behind McNabb 52 seconds into the video is the best angle to see the the development of the play. Roy is back pedaling and is right with Celek as McNabb throws the ball but stops and takes a few steps forward because he thought it was going to the WR running the short crossing route. He knew that he had help behind him with the TE but the WR running the cross was running absolutely uncovered in front of him and he was the only one who would have been in position to make the tackle had McNabb chosen to throw the cross instead.

I admit that I was one of the ones who bashed Roy for that play but it's obvious to me now that he really wasn't the one at fault...this time.

 

[JPM]

was it his fault, not 100% sure. would a good safety make that play, you betcha. for all the apologists, lets ignore the bad/missed plays roy has made, can you remember the good ones that he has made? if so, they are a few and far between.

 

[TEK2000]

This is so true that it isn't even funny. 11 guys on the field and Roy's is always made out to be the person at fault.

Funny that no one cares to respond to it as well.

 

[khiladi]

bad defense....just bad defense

you have the other team 3rd and 9 with the game on the line...they havent handled our pressure blitzes all day, and they play a safe coverage scheme...


David

They did that a couple times. When they had the Eagles back at the 5. They ran that soft coverage zone twice in a row, and McNabb went right to the side of Henry. When Henry manned up, he blanketed the receivers.

 

[superpunk]

I can't even care whether such and such a play is Roy's fault anymore. If it is, it is....so what? Only the coaching staff knows for sure, and if all the bad plays attributed to him here were really his fault I can't imagine that the coaching staff would keep him out there.

I just seriously miss the old Roy, the real Roy. Yesterday, I watched Troy Polamalu take over a game defensively. Yeah, he got abused a couple times because he was wildly out of position in coverage. But the guy made a play on almost every drive, using his amazing pursuit abilities to track down ball carriers, and had a beautiful pass deflection on a 3rd and 19 that was just a phenomenal play to keep the Jags from getting a first.

I have never minded Roy's deficiencies because there was so much good to love about him that it tipped the scales, IMO.

Now, the best thing I can say about him this season is that his presence in the box when teams go three wide contributes to our superior run defense. What else is there from Roy this year? This goes back to last season when he looked weak and afraid of contact down thes tretch. I was willing to chalk it up to injury, but that excuse has worn out for me. I need the old Roy back. I never bash him out loud in my house. Yesterday, after he dove at the receiver's legs to take him out, my wife says "There's a typical Roy Williams hit." I'm not criticizing that method, because it's effective - but IMO, that ain't Roy. I haven't seen "Roy" for awhile now, and I want him back terribly. He was hands down my favorite player for years, but for the past 17 games or so he's done nothing but make me sad.

 

[TEK2000]

I can't even care whether such and such a play is Roy's fault anymore. If it is, it is....so what? Only the coaching staff knows for sure, and if all the bad plays attributed to him here were really his fault I can't imagine that the coaching staff would keep him out there.

I just seriously miss the old Roy, the real Roy. Yesterday, I watched Troy Polamalu take over a game defensively. Yeah, he got abused a couple times because he was wildly out of position in coverage. But the guy made a play on almost every drive, using his amazing pursuit abilities to track down ball carriers, and had a beautiful pass deflection on a 3rd and 19 that was just a phenomenal play to keep the Jags from getting a first.

I have never minded Roy's deficiencies because there was so much good to love about him that it tipped the scales, IMO.

Now, the best thing I can say about him this season is that his presence in the box when teams go three wide contributes to our superior run defense. What else is there from Roy this year? This goes back to last season when he looked weak and afraid of contact down thes tretch. I was willing to chalk it up to injury, but that excuse has worn out for me. I need the old Roy back. I never bash him out loud in my house. Yesterday, after he dove at the receiver's legs to take him out, my wife says "There's a typical Roy Williams hit." I'm not criticizing that method, because it's effective - but IMO, that ain't Roy. I haven't seen "Roy" for awhile now, and I want him back terribly. He was hands down my favorite player for years, but for the past 17 games or so he's done nothing but make me sad.

I agree with you on that post superpunk. Roy is not "Roy"... it is saddening. He badly needs a huge, game changing play... quite a few of them in fact. Perhaps that will give him some confidence... he looks to me like he's playing nervously and trying not to screw-up rather than just playing with his natural instincts that he'd shown throughout his career.

The difference for me is that I won't blame him for plays in which I don't feel he is to blame... that's where the heated discussions come from. There are a lot of plays where he is to blame... a few in the Saints game last season for example... but then are those where its a combined screw-up effort.. like the Cooley TD a few weeks ago or the 3rd and 9 that this thread is about.

 

[Wolfpack]

I agree with you on that post superpunk. Roy is not "Roy"... it is saddening. He badly needs a huge, game changing play... quite a few of them in fact. Perhaps that will give him some confidence... he looks to me like he's playing nervously and trying not to screw-up rather than just playing with his natural instincts that he'd shown throughout his career.

I blame Zimmer for this....

 

[joseephuss]

I can't even care whether such and such a play is Roy's fault anymore. If it is, it is....so what? Only the coaching staff knows for sure, and if all the bad plays attributed to him here were really his fault I can't imagine that the coaching staff would keep him out there.

I just seriously miss the old Roy, the real Roy. Yesterday, I watched Troy Polamalu take over a game defensively. Yeah, he got abused a couple times because he was wildly out of position in coverage. But the guy made a play on almost every drive, using his amazing pursuit abilities to track down ball carriers, and had a beautiful pass deflection on a 3rd and 19 that was just a phenomenal play to keep the Jags from getting a first.

I have never minded Roy's deficiencies because there was so much good to love about him that it tipped the scales, IMO.

Now, the best thing I can say about him this season is that his presence in the box when teams go three wide contributes to our superior run defense. What else is there from Roy this year? This goes back to last season when he looked weak and afraid of contact down thes tretch. I was willing to chalk it up to injury, but that excuse has worn out for me. I need the old Roy back. I never bash him out loud in my house. Yesterday, after he dove at the receiver's legs to take him out, my wife says "There's a typical Roy Williams hit." I'm not criticizing that method, because it's effective - but IMO, that ain't Roy. I haven't seen "Roy" for awhile now, and I want him back terribly. He was hands down my favorite player for years, but for the past 17 games or so he's done nothing but make me sad.

I disagree. Troy Polamalu did not take over that game. No one on the Steelers defense took over that game. They gave up 421 total yards, 224 yards rushing, 5.3 yards per rush, three crucial 4th down conversions and 29 points. If the Dallas defense did that I would not believe that any Dallas defender took over the game. If that happened I am sure a lot on here would blame it all on Roy Williams.

Troy Polamalu had some good plays. He also had some bad plays or as you put it got abused. And it was not just in coverage. I saw him screw up a few times in run support. He took bad angles, hit the wrong holes or just got plain beat by a blocker or the running backs. Polamalu was not horrible, but he had some horrible moments. It was not one of his better games. I found it funny that you said he took over the game because Roy would not have been given that type of credit if he and the Dallas defense played the exact same kind of game.

I am not trying to bash Troy to glorify Roy. I think Roy can play better than what he has shown. He can and needs to, but at the same time I don't think he is as horrible as some make him out to be. Not that that is what you were doing, but some have. Read some of these threads and you would come away thinking that Roy is no better than Keith Davis. I would hate to see the Dallas defense stuck with Davis as the starter. I would hate to see a bunch of SS in the NFL replace Roy in Dallas. There would have to be double the threads bashing the SS play if it happened because if anyone thinks Roy is bad they would not like what others are capable of doing or not doing.

 

[Clove]

There was a time when Roy was all over the field. Receivers were afraid to come anywhere near his side of the field.

Play after play, he was involved. When I saw that crushing hit yesterday I just knew for sure it was Roy Williams, but to my surprise, it was Hamlin.

Give back that big pay check, and you can be as average as you want to be.

 

[superpunk]

I disagree. Troy Polamalu did not take over that game. No one on the Steelers defense took over that game. They gave up 421 total yards, 224 yards rushing, 5.3 yards per rush, three crucial 4th down conversions and 29 points. If the Dallas defense did that I would not believe that any Dallas defender took over the game. If that happened I am sure a lot on here would blame it all on Roy Williams.

Troy Polamalu had some good plays. He also had some bad plays or as you put it got abused. And it was not just in coverage. I saw him screw up a few times in run support. He took bad angles, hit the wrong holes or just got plain beat by a blocker or the running backs. Polamalu was not horrible, but he had some horrible moments. It was not one of his better games. I found it funny that you said he took over the game because Roy would not have been given that type of credit if he and the Dallas defense played the exact same kind of game.

I am not trying to bash Troy to glorify Roy. I think Roy can play better than what he has shown. He can and needs to, but at the same time I don't think he is as horrible as some make him out to be. Not that that is what you were doing, but some have. Read some of these threads and you would come away thinking that Roy is no better than Keith Davis. I would hate to see the Dallas defense stuck with Davis as the starter. I would hate to see a bunch of SS in the NFL replace Roy in Dallas. There would have to be double the threads bashing the SS play if it happened because if anyone thinks Roy is bad they would not like what others are capable of doing or not doing.

I am a huge Roy supporter. But it's been so long since I saw him do what Polamalu did in the middle of that game that I can barely remember the last time. Troy went through a couple series where he (a)blitzed, hit Garrard then tracked down the ball carrier on the screen from behind (b) prevent a TD on a goalline pass to a wide open FB with unbelievable closing speed and (c) deflect a long third down pass that would have been completed for a huge first and (d) stop a 3rd or 4th and 1 by blowing up the hole the RB was meant to go through.

If you weren't impressed by that stretch, I can't imagine what impresses you, lol. I can't blame the safety for Pitt's front seven's ineptitude down the stretch. Jax even appeared to avoid throwing to his side of the field.

I don't blame Roy for much of anything. I just miss seeing Roy be "Roy". It's been a lonnnnnng time since I can remember him making more than 1-2 outstanding plays in a game. I couldnt even begin to guess why that is. I dont mind his inadequacies - they're not that bad so long as he's "Roy". but he hasn't been "Roy" for awhile.

 

[joseephuss]

I am a huge Roy supporter. But it's been so long since I saw him do what Polamalu did in the middle of that game that I can barely remember the last time. Troy went through a couple series where he (a)blitzed, hit Garrard then tracked down the ball carrier on the screen from behind (b) prevent a TD on a goalline pass to a wide open FB with unbelievable closing speed and (c) deflect a long third down pass that would have been completed for a huge first and (d) stop a 3rd or 4th and 1 by blowing up the hole the RB was meant to go through.

If you weren't impressed by that stretch, I can't imagine what impresses you, lol. I can't blame the safety for Pitt's front seven's ineptitude down the stretch. Jax even appeared to avoid throwing to his side of the field.

I don't blame Roy for much of anything. I just miss seeing Roy be "Roy". It's been a lonnnnnng time since I can remember him making more than 1-2 outstanding plays in a game. I couldnt even begin to guess why that is. I dont mind his inadequacies - they're not that bad so long as he's "Roy". but he hasn't been "Roy" for awhile.

Those were all good plays by Troy. Each one looked at singularly was impressive, but I don't see that as taking over. Those few good plays did not all occur one right after another and Jax went on to score TDs on those drives. When a defender takes over a game, they prevent the opposing offense from scoring.

That one play was on 3rd down because the Jaguars went 3 for 3 on 4th down conversions.

Roy has not take over a game or a portion of a game this year. He needs to and I am not sure what has to happen for him to accomplish that feat.

 

[arync]

that was on roy, he took that step towards the TE and got out of position

 

[Apollo Creed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uePWRZZJq68&feature=related

What happened to this guy? Roy just looks out of shape, when he came out of OU he looked in much better shape.

 

[TRUTH87]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uePWRZZJq68&feature=related

What happened to this guy? Roy just looks out of shape, when he came out of OU he looked in much better shape.

WOW..cant believe thats ROY. he seems amazin in that vid. no more vicious hits either now..

 

[ZeroClub]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uePWRZZJq68&feature=related

What happened to this guy? Roy just looks out of shape, when he came out of OU he looked in much better shape.

Maybe all of those hard hits simply have taken a toll.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It was a great throw to the small window in a zone. No one's really to blame.

And without reading every post, has anyone mentioned that Ellis was about six inches from stopping that pass from even being thrown? That's how close these plays are. They just happened to hit that one.