Vita Vea. Trade up?

[Big_D]

Only if insane is your idea of funny ....

More sad than funny. Not ha ha funny, Jerry funny! So yeah.. insane works too!

 

[waving monkey]

Deadrick Senat

]Deadrick Senat

 

[Oh_Canada]

I like Vea, but this is the wrong draft to be moving up for a one tech. Soooo many good ones available in this draft.

 

[LatinMind]

OK, So, I am not one to want to throw picks away to trade up and get "that guy", seldom does it work out (see Mo Claibourne). BUT...Vita Vea. Most mock drafts have him going to the Commanders at #13. If he falls to say #10 or #11 would you as a fan be willing to give up our 2nd rounder to jump up in the draft to get him? In this case I would. Vea is going to be a beast in this league, a game changer that we need. With all the comp picks we have, moving back into the 2nd round is not impossible but even if we don't, this guy is worth it!

 

[LatinMind]

You know, it's really funny. I've been talking Football with my Son since he was about, well, since he was I guess. Now, in the early years, he didn't really talk back much but he's gotten a lot better at that part.

Anyway, thats been a few years now. The other day, we were talking about this very thing. Both he and I like Vea. He asked me the same thing. I told him that I didn't think it was really even worth discussing. I mean, I think this is the way for us to go and maybe the introduction of Richard helps with this but, I just don't see it. Vea is not what we ever look at in this scheme. I think Hurst is what we look for at DT and I doubt that we would move up and spend that kind of capitol to take Vea. Especially if Hurst is still on the board and I see no reason why he would not be. There are a good 8 or 10 DTs that could go in the first 3 rounds. I would love to get that guy but honestly, I just don't see it.

Drafting a DT in round 1 would be a big mistake if Dallas keeps Irving IMO. Only so many snaps to go around for rotational guys.

 

[CATCH17]

I would not trade up.

Roquan Smith, Edmunds, and Derwin are the guys I would move up for because they would all make us significantly better at positions of need.

My Nickel would be Smith and Lee at LB.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Drafting a DT in round 1 would be a big mistake if Dallas keeps Irving IMO. Only so many snaps to go around for rotational guys.

If you can get a guy like Ngata in the first round, I don't think that's ever a mistake and this kid Vea, he could be that kind of player. Having said that, Marinelli had Warren Sapp and Booger McFarland in Tampa and both of those guys were 1st round picks. In Chicago, he had Tommie Harrison, who was a 1st round pick as well. I mean, he has had some guys who were taken high in the draft, at NT. They haven't always been bargain basement guys.

I just don't think that the Cowboys will move up to take a guy like Vea. I do, however, see a guy like Hurst being exactly the kind of DT they might take, if he's there.

 

[DFWJC]

OK, So, I am not one to want to throw picks away to trade up and get "that guy", seldom does it work out (see Mo Claibourne). BUT...Vita Vea. Most mock drafts have him going to the Commanders at #13. If he falls to say #10 or #11 would you as a fan be willing to give up our 2nd rounder to jump up in the draft to get him? In this case I would. Vea is going to be a beast in this league, a game changer that we need. With all the comp picks we have, moving back into the 2nd round is not impossible but even if we don't, this guy is worth it!

Good question
The answer is NO

 

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

No! Not even sure I'd take Vea at 19. He's a 2 down DT that didn't dominate double teams at Washington they way people make it out. He's got great dimensions, is athletic for his size, and has tons of upside but I'd never dream of trading a pick for him. I'm not even sure he'll be a better player than Harrison Phillips or Tim Settle.

 

[LatinMind]

If you can get a guy like Ngata in the first round, I don't think that's ever a mistake and this kid Vea, he could be that kind of player. Having said that, Marinelli had Warren Sapp and Booger McFarland in Tampa and both of those guys were 1st round picks. In Chicago, he had Tommie Harrison, who was a 1st round pick as well. I mean, he has had some guys who were taken high in the draft, at NT. They haven't always been bargain basement guys.

I just don't think that the Cowboys will move up to take a guy like Vea. I do, however, see a guy like Hurst being exactly the kind of DT they might take, if he's there.

Thats the thing Dallas has Irving and Collins. Add in Datone Jones who showed alot in his short time in Dallas that he virtually took over alot of snaps from players. Where do you get the snaps to give a Vita Vea or a Payne? Vea is not a 3 down DT in the nfl. Mcfarland as a NT never went off the field.

He is a player to plug the run. Gives you nothing on a passrush. Ash and Price gave them that last yr. Clearly Vea is more talented but to draft a NT in RD1? Would be a bad move IMO for a team that has a glarring need at WR and OL. Any WR or G would be a far better pick than NT.

I will add Dallas problems against the run had mroe to do with MIKE play. Smith just didnt have the footing early to get the job done and Hitchens well he has never been a guy who could hold up vs the run. Which is why i dont understand the whole Hitchens cannot be let go threads and posts.

 

[camaro69]

I really like Vea and hope he's there at 19, but I can't justify trading up for a DT.

I would do it in a heart beat. This kid could make an impact from day one. He's good in a three man front but he's dominate in a four man front. cant be blocked one on one. you win games in the trenches. Look at our OL they have a hard time running against teams with size on the interior. He's not your average DT1 Big and stiff- This kid is quick and agile for a big man. Go and watch some of our games where teams come out and ran the ball down our throats on defense until the defense was gassed

 

[cowboy_ron]

Either Vea, or Hurst would be day 1 starters which is what you have to have in the first round......I also feel that way about the second round as well but our FO thinks the second round is the "gamble" round which we are terrible at.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Thats the thing Dallas has Irving and Collins. Add in Datone Jones who showed alot in his short time in Dallas that he virtually took over alot of snaps from players. Where do you get the snaps to give a Vita Vea or a Payne? Vea is not a 3 down DT in the nfl. Mcfarland as a NT never went off the field.

He is a player to plug the run. Gives you nothing on a passrush. Ash and Price gave them that last yr. Clearly Vea is more talented but to draft a NT in RD1? Would be a bad move IMO for a team that has a glarring need at WR and OL. Any WR or G would be a far better pick than NT.

Before we go down this path, you do understand that I have clearly said that I do not believe we will take Vea right? You understand that I have said that I don't believe we would trade up for Vea right?

OK, so we are clear......

Why would you say that Vea is not a 3 Down DT? That guy could be a 4 down DT. I don't agree that Vea is a situational DT.

As far as Collins and Irving go, Collins might be our 3 Tech. Irving may not even be with this team in a season or two. All the rest of these guys are not difference makers, at this point. They are rotational guys and that's fine but, if you want to field a strong Defensive Unit, you better be able to stop teams. That starts up the middle.

I would not underestimate the value of strong DT play. Coach Landry was a big believer in the importance of DT play and how it set everything else in motion, with regards to playing Defense. I agree that we have other needs but I do not agree that those other needs are more important. I think that our OL is in pretty good shape if we figure out swing tackle and if Smith comes back healthy. I don't believe that our situation at Guard is as bad as it's being made out to be. I believe we need a speed guy at WR. I don't believe we need to take the position that WR is the most important need in the 1st round. Take the best player at a position of need, unless you have an opportunity to take a player you believe to be a Generational talent. That, IMO, is what we should be doing.

JMO

 

[Sandyf]

We haven't even had the combine, so saying he is worth it to move up is sort of moot. What if Edmunds LB or James S are there with Vea at #10/#11? Which one do you move up to get? What we see as the most need doesn't translate to what the Cowboys see? We don't know how they will rate each of them on their board. What if Vea isn't in the top 20 on their board, if so, then highly unlikely we trade up to get him.

Draft night is going to be interesting.

 

[LatinMind]

Before we go down this path, you do understand that I have clearly said that I do not believe we will take Vea right? You understand that I have said that I don't believe we would trade up for Vea right?

OK, so we are clear......

Why would you say that Vea is not a 3 Down DT? That guy could be a 4 down DT. I don't agree that Vea is a situational DT.

As far as Collins and Irving go, Collins might be our 3 Tech. Irving may not even be with this team in a season or two. All the rest of these guys are not difference makers, at this point. They are rotational guys and that's fine but, if you want to field a strong Defensive Unit, you better be able to stop teams. That starts up the middle.

I would not underestimate the value of strong DT play. Coach Landry was a big believer in the importance of DT play and how it set everything else in motion, with regards to playing Defense. I agree that we have other needs but I do not agree that those other needs are more important. I think that our OL is in pretty good shape if we figure out swing tackle and if Smith comes back healthy. I don't believe that our situation at Guard is as bad as it's being made out to be. I believe we need a speed guy at WR. I don't believe we need to take the position that WR is the most important need in the 1st round. Take the best player at a position of need, unless you have an opportunity to take a player you believe to be a Generational talent. That, IMO, is what we should be doing.

JMO

Because in todays NFL other than a few teams who actually run the ball up the gut (Dallas, KC, Pitt, Chi, Jax, Minn) why would you have Vea on the field on obvious passing 3rd downs? What, when and where has he even shown in college that makes anybody think he could provide a passrush option on 3rd down?

Landry coached in a era where the rules werent shifted to the offense so there are more high scoring games. I really wish people would stop trying to use past philosophies to todays game. Because todays game is nothing and i mean nothing that resembles games when you and i were young.

IN terms of importance of WR this is where you and me just dont agree. As i think WR is a major problem for this team. The problem comes from lack of speed and Route running QB Accuracy and QB protection. Def isnt the problem with this team right now. Its the offense. How many times were we in chat this past season talking about the def is keeping this team in the game only to have the offenses inability to put something together allowing the opposing team to wear the def down.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because in todays NFL other than a few teams who actually run the ball up the gut (Dallas, KC, Pitt, Chi, Jax, Minn) why would you have Vea on the field on obvious passing 3rd downs? What, when and where has he even shown in college that makes anybody think he could provide a passrush option on 3rd down?

Landry coached in a era where the rules werent shifted to the offense so there are more high scoring games. I really wish people would stop trying to use past philosophies to todays game. Because todays game is nothing and i mean nothing that resembles games when you and i were young.

IN terms of importance of WR this is where you and me just dont agree. As i think WR is a major problem for this team. The problem comes from lack of speed and Route running QB Accuracy and QB protection. Def isnt the problem with this team right now. Its the offense. How many times were we in chat this past season talking about the def is keeping this team in the game only to have the offenses inability to put something together allowing the opposing team to wear the def down.

First of all, Vea isn't one dimensional. He isn't just a guy you stick in the middle of the line and make people run around him. He isn't really just a NT. I mean, if that's what you wanted him to do for you, in your scheme, he would be perfectly capable of that role but that's not all he can do. This guy can cave the pocket for you. He is strong enough to lock down the middle of your D and he can also defend the run in a two gap scheme. He is quick enough to be able to get penetration off the snap and he can push the middle of the pocket, right back in the QBs face. This guy is not just a speed bump.

Football has not changed, to the point where fundamental truths are out the window. What Landry knew then, is still important in todays game. Defense still starts in the interior and works it's way out. You still have to stop teams on first down and you still have to make plays on 3rd to get your Defense off the field. You still have to be able to hold up against the run and you still need to be able to create pressure right up the middle. Landry was not wrong then and he is not wrong now. It's a mistake to believe that just because he coached in another era, he didn't understand Football.

I don't think that the problem is we don't agree. I think the problem is that you are not paying attention to way I am saying about the WR position. Doesn't really matter. You are correct, we probably won't agree at WR, with respects to what is central to this discussion. I don't believe that we must spend a 1st round pick on a WR this year. You, apparently do believe that.

 

[Proof]

I say yes, it does not necessarily have to be a second selection this year, but one of 2019, Vea is the player we need, all the rest of the necessary positions, can be updated through free agency. a Vita Vea type player not is in free agency

Dontari Poe?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dontari Poe?

His upside is better then Poe, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I liked Poe coming out and really wanted to draft him but this kid Vea, he could be decidedly better.

I do like Poe though.

 

[Proof]

His upside is better then Poe, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I liked Poe coming out and really wanted to draft him but this kid Vea, he could be decidedly better.

I do like Poe though.

I’d prefer vita too especially on a rookie deal for 5 years. Just pointing out Pow is a viable option. Especially if it let us also allowed us to draft an additional impact player.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I’d prefer vita too especially on a rookie deal for 5 years. Just pointing out Pow is a viable option. Especially if it let us also allowed us to draft an additional impact player.

Honestly, I don't think that we would ever go after Poe in FA. He doesn't fit the profile. Same reason I don't think we will go after Vea. JMO though.