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juck;4472340 said:
Yes son he is. I guess u missed the playoff run last year when he dominated like nobody has since Timmy in 2003. Or the fact that his skillset incorporates a shot thats unstoppable,and now a hook shot. The dude is unguardable.Stop swearing kid.Its not polite.

No one is saying he's not a great player because he is and he had a great playoff run last season, but that was last season we're talking about this season. This season he hasn't been even close to the same player he's been in previous seasons.
 

juck

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Cowboys&LakersFan;4472379 said:
No one is saying he's not a great player because he is and he had a great playoff run last season, but that was last season we're talking about this season. This season he hasn't been even close to the same player he's been in previous seasons.
I guess you havent noticed his play this past month.He is getting better and more like the usual Dirk with added wrinkles in his skillset lately.Also its all about the playoffs.Added motivation after complete domination last summer.
 

The30YardSlant

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Biggems;4472007 said:
Duncan is having a better season than Dirk is this year.

I disagree

Duncan:

14.6 PPG
67% from the line
47% from the field
8.8 RPG
Efficiency rating of 21.3 (league average is 15)

Dirk:

20.8 PPG
87% from the line
47% from the field (The difference being 68% of his points are outside the paint, only 31% of Duncan's are)
6.9 RPG
Efficiency rating of 22.0

Dirk is a far more skilled scorer at this point in their careers and Duncan's defensive efficiency is at an all-time low this year. One thing I've noticed is that Duncan's lateral mobility has be declining for a couple years now, he just doesnt get across the block as well anymore.

Don't get me wrong, he's the best power forward of all-time. He's about two years away from just being a depth player though, whereas Dirk looks to have another good 4-5 years left as he is at the height of his jumpshooting skills and as seen with guys like Allen and Miller guys with great shots can be very productive for a long time.
 

Biggems

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The30YardSlant;4472631 said:
I disagree

Duncan:

14.6 PPG
67% from the line
47% from the field
8.8 RPG
Efficiency rating of 21.3 (league average is 15)

Dirk:

20.8 PPG
87% from the line
47% from the field (The difference being 68% of his points are outside the paint, only 31% of Duncan's are)
6.9 RPG
Efficiency rating of 22.0

Dirk is a far more skilled scorer at this point in their careers and Duncan's defensive efficiency is at an all-time low this year. One thing I've noticed is that Duncan's lateral mobility has be declining for a couple years now, he just doesnt get across the block as well anymore.

Don't get me wrong, he's the best power forward of all-time. He's about two years away from just being a depth player though, whereas Dirk looks to have another good 4-5 years left as he is at the height of his jumpshooting skills and as seen with guys like Allen and Miller guys with great shots can be very productive for a long time.


then you havent watched Duncan this year.....cause he is ballin....his stats are down, but so are his minutes....which, i am sure are much lower than dirk's. also, the spurs have done a nice job over the last 3 years of putting players around duncan who can score......so he doesn't have to carry the load night in and night out anymore.....but when called upon, he will light you up.
 

windward

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It's Roger by a country mile. At Cowboys stadium they just have to show his picture and the crowd goes nuts.
 

MC KAos

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cowboy_ron;4471525 said:
Young fans now hos..most don't realize there was a world before the year 2000

im glad that i enjoy learning the history of my teams and appreciating it. like i said before, im 26 but id vote for landry over anyone in the state. He basically made the cowboys into america's team, plus he went to UT.
 

MC KAos

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Biggems;4472007 said:
Duncan is still one of the better defensive players in the league. Also, Duncan is playing like a spring chicken this year. He looks like the Duncan of 5-6 years ago.

Duncan is having a better season than Dirk is this year. Also, the Spurs are having a better season than the Mavs.....but, until the Mavs are eliminated, they are still the Champs.

i have to disagree with the first sentence of the latter paragraph of your comment. it was accurate a month ago, but dirk has been playing better the last month. nevertheless, Duncan is still a great defender, even at his age, there are no more than a handful of big men that are better defensively.

juck;4472026 said:
Ur stuck in 2003. Timmy is no where near what he used to be. Dirk is getting better and better.

you are delusional, dirk is definitely not better than he was last year. he has hit his peak, he is not getting any better.

and quit being delusional about dirk, he is a great offensive player, but he is still atrocious defensively. in fact, Duncan would probably destroy him in a game of one on one if they played tomorrow. dirk shoots about %50? duncan would shoot about 75% posting up dirk.

juck;4472340 said:
Yes son he is. I guess u missed the playoff run last year when he dominated like nobody has since Timmy in 2003. Or the fact that his skillset incorporates a shot thats unstoppable,and now a hook shot. The dude is unguardable.Stop swearing kid.Its not polite.

again, duncan dominated in 2003 on both ends, who did dirk dominate defensively in the playoffs? i know its a hard concept to grasp, but playing defense is still important in determining a players greatness in basketball. The reason MJ is the greatest is because he could score like kobe and defend like bowen.
 

MC KAos

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The30YardSlant;4472631 said:
I disagree

Duncan:

14.6 PPG
67% from the line
47% from the field
8.8 RPG
Efficiency rating of 21.3 (league average is 15)

Dirk:

20.8 PPG
87% from the line
47% from the field (The difference being 68% of his points are outside the paint, only 31% of Duncan's are)
6.9 RPG
Efficiency rating of 22.0

Dirk is a far more skilled scorer at this point in their careers and Duncan's defensive efficiency is at an all-time low this year. One thing I've noticed is that Duncan's lateral mobility has be declining for a couple years now, he just doesnt get across the block as well anymore.

Don't get me wrong, he's the best power forward of all-time. He's about two years away from just being a depth player though, whereas Dirk looks to have another good 4-5 years left as he is at the height of his jumpshooting skills and as seen with guys like Allen and Miller guys with great shots can be very productive for a long time.

that almost makes the case FOR duncan, the fact that dirk's points come from outside the paint and tims come from the paint doesnt really matter, 2 points are 2 points no matter how they are achieved. and thats beside the fact that duncan defends the paint while dirks defense, inside the paint of outside, is non existent. While tim has regressed a lot defensively from his prime, he is still a great defender, just that in his prime he was one of the best defensive big men ever.
 

Gator88

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MC KAos;4473544 said:
i have to disagree with the first sentence of the latter paragraph of your comment. it was accurate a month ago, but dirk has been playing better the last month. nevertheless, Duncan is still a great defender, even at his age, there are no more than a handful of big men that are better defensively.



you are delusional, dirk is definitely not better than he was last year. he has hit his peak, he is not getting any better.

and quit being delusional about dirk, he is a great offensive player, but he is still atrocious defensively. in fact, Duncan would probably destroy him in a game of one on one if they played tomorrow. dirk shoots about %50? duncan would shoot about 75% posting up dirk.



again, duncan dominated in 2003 on both ends, who did dirk dominate defensively in the playoffs? i know its a hard concept to grasp, but playing defense is still important in determining a players greatness in basketball. The reason MJ is the greatest is because he could score like kobe and defend like bowen.
:lmao2: :lmao: You're part of the deceived masses that doesn't realize that Dirk has actually become a pretty good defender since 2006. And about Dirk getting destroyed by Timmy in one-on-one, all I can do is laugh. Dirk is still a top 10 player, while Timmy is a top 10 Center now and that's it.
 

MC KAos

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Gator88;4474079 said:
:lmao2: :lmao: You're part of the deceived masses that doesn't realize that Dirk has actually become a pretty good defender since 2006. And about Dirk getting destroyed by Timmy in one-on-one, all I can do is laugh. Dirk is still a top 10 player, while Timmy is a top 10 Center now and that's it.

Really? So since 2006 dirk's defense has gone from non existent to horrendous? You need to stop being delusional about dirk, he is a great offensive player, but Duncan is still a great defender. If they played 1 on 1 how the hell is dirk supposed to guard Tim down in the block? It should speak volumes that this is even an argument when one guy is 9 months removed from his prime and the other is 9 years away from it.
 

The30YardSlant

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MC KAos;4474100 said:
Really? So since 2006 dirk's defense has gone from non existent to horrendous? You need to stop being delusional about dirk, he is a great offensive player, but Duncan is still a great defender. If they played 1 on 1 how the hell is dirk supposed to guard Tim down in the block? It should speak volumes that this is even an argument when one guy is 9 months removed from his prime and the other is 9 years away from it.

Dirk's defensive efficiency has actually been in the top half among starting power forwards in the league since his 2007 MVP season. He's slowly gone from no defense to horrendous defense to bad defense to average defense.

And Duncan is a great POST defender, but he can't guard Dirk on the perimeter anymore than he could any other quicker perimeter scorer.
 

MC KAos

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The30YardSlant;4474236 said:
Dirk's defensive efficiency has actually been in the top half among starting power forwards in the league since his 2007 MVP season. He's slowly gone from no defense to horrendous defense to bad defense to average defense.

And Duncan is a great POST defender, but he can't guard Dirk on the perimeter anymore than he could any other quicker perimeter scorer.

he can guard him well enough to the point that he wont shoot a higher percentage than duncan could posting him up. even for the greatest shooters in the world, shooting jumpshots from the outside at a rate of over 50% is difficult, even without a defender on their face. maybe dirk's defensive numbers might be slightly better now, but who is he guarding? you think they are going to put dirk on duncan or zbo with the game on the line? they will put just about anyone else on their roster on them first.
 

The30YardSlant

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MC KAos;4474276 said:
he can guard him well enough to the point that he wont shoot a higher percentage than duncan could posting him up. even for the greatest shooters in the world, shooting jumpshots from the outside at a rate of over 50% is difficult, even without a defender on their face. maybe dirk's defensive numbers might be slightly better now, but who is he guarding? you think they are going to put dirk on duncan or zbo with the game on the line? they will put just about anyone else on their roster on them first.

What I'm saying is Dirk would just go by him or Duncan would sit in the paint and Dirk would shoot wide open jumpers which he'd make 75-80% of unguarded. Dirk sometimes beat Bruce Bowen off the drible and he was one of the great perimeter defenders in history, what chance does Duncan have?
 

MC KAos

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The30YardSlant;4474284 said:
What I'm saying is Dirk would just go by him or Duncan would sit in the paint and Dirk would shoot wide open jumpers which he'd make 75-80% of unguarded. Dirk sometimes beat Bruce Bowen off the drible and he was one of the great perimeter defenders in history, what chance does Duncan have?

i personally think he'd have a good one, he isnt shaq, he is still very nimble, plus his size and length would allow him to disrupt shots better than bowen could. i dont think he could hit that high a percentage with anyone guarding him that he couldnt post up, even in the three point contest they dont make more than 50% regularly.

this is actually a fun argument, i wish they would do it! for charity maybe
 

joseephuss

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juck;4472340 said:
Yes son he is. I guess u missed the playoff run last year when he dominated like nobody has since Timmy in 2003. Or the fact that his skillset incorporates a shot thats unstoppable,and now a hook shot. The dude is unguardable.Stop swearing kid.Its not polite.

Dirk's averages in the playoffs last year
27.7 pts per game
8.1 rebounds per game
2.5 assists per game

Good numbers, but I think there have been other guys who have put up similar if not greater numbers deep into the playoffs between what Dirk did last year and Duncan did in 2003.
 

trickblue

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MC KAos;4474276 said:
he can guard him well enough to the point that he wont shoot a higher percentage than duncan could posting him up. even for the greatest shooters in the world, shooting jumpshots from the outside at a rate of over 50% is difficult, even without a defender on their face. maybe dirk's defensive numbers might be slightly better now, but who is he guarding? you think they are going to put dirk on duncan or zbo with the game on the line? they will put just about anyone else on their roster on them first.

The30YardSlant;4474284 said:
What I'm saying is Dirk would just go by him or Duncan would sit in the paint and Dirk would shoot wide open jumpers which he'd make 75-80% of unguarded. Dirk sometimes beat Bruce Bowen off the drible and he was one of the great perimeter defenders in history, what chance does Duncan have?

Most of you are likely too young to remember, but they used to show a one on one game at halftime on the NBA on CBS when I was growing up... it was really cool...

Two NBA stars in an empty gym, lights darkened... only the half of the court lit they were playing on. I really used to look forward to that...

It was a tournament...
 

Gator88

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MC KAos;4474100 said:
Really? So since 2006 dirk's defense has gone from non existent to horrendous? You need to stop being delusional about dirk, he is a great offensive player, but Duncan is still a great defender. If they played 1 on 1 how the hell is dirk supposed to guard Tim down in the block? It should speak volumes that this is even an argument when one guy is 9 months removed from his prime and the other is 9 years away from it.

You're the one that needs to stop being delusional, its only an argument in your mind. I'm tired of the uninformed calling Dirk a horrendous defensive player when Dirk has been an above average defender for a PF for a while now. Like 30YardSlant said, Dirk would either get layups or wide open jumpshots the majority of the time with Duncan guarding him. Duncan, on the other hand, would shoot his post ups and struggle since he's been averaging under 15 points per game over the last two years.
 

MC KAos

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joseephuss;4474315 said:
Dirk's averages in the playoffs last year
27.7 pts per game
8.1 rebounds per game
2.5 assists per game

Good numbers, but I think there have been other guys who have put up similar if not greater numbers deep into the playoffs between what Dirk did last year and Duncan did in 2003.

that 2003 performance by duncan was EPIC people forget how amazing the Nets defense was back in those times. here is an article that ranked his performance in game 1 as number 6 all time (not only do i believe it should be at number 4 above malone's and worthy's, i think his game 6 performance was better)

6. Tim Duncan, Spurs: 2003 Finals, Game 1
MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A REB AST STL BLK TO PTS
44 11-17 0-0 10-14 20 6 3 7 1 32

Game Score: 43.3 Result: Spurs 101, Nets 89 Series: Spurs win in 6

This is perfect: The top-rated Duncan game is one that absolutely nobody remembers. However, Duncan's Game 1 annihilation of the Nets was not only his personal-best Finals performance, but the ridiculous 43.3 is the top Game Score for any Finals game of the post-merger era -- and he did it against an elite defensive team.

It would be hard to find a game that greater exemplifies Duncan's understated excellence. The 2003 Finals were low on sex appeal because San Antonio and New Jersey both were small-market teams, but it was a gritty series that required Duncan's best.

In the opener, he more than delivered.

Going up against two of the better defensive centers of the decade in Jason Collins and Dikembe Mutombo, Duncan ripped off 32 points, 20 rebounds, seven blocks, six assists and three steals. He even shot 10-for-14 from the free throw line and he had only one turnover.

Duncan broke open a tie game at the half by scoring 24 of his 32 points after the break, and was only two steals away from the only "five-by-five" in Finals history.


GOD i miss that duncan, if the spurs lost a playoff game, he was a guaranteed 30-15 the next game.

trickblue;4474334 said:
Most of you are likely too young to remember, but they used to show a one on one game at halftime on the NBA on CBS when I was growing up... it was really cool...

Two NBA stars in an empty gym, lights darkened... only the half of the court lit they were playing on. I really used to look forward to that...

It was a tournament...

that would be so awesome! i think NBA players now a days put themselves on a pedestal and are to arrogant to do stuff like that. i lebron wont even compete in the slam dunk contest, i doubt he would ever play a game of 1 on 1 vs melo or durant.

for arguments sake, here is who i think would win....

PG: D-Rose would dominate, i mean, he already beats entire teams singlehandedly, i dont see him having a hard time with just 1 point guard at a time

SG: Kobe would edge wade i think, Ginobili would easily win the bronze medal, but hed prob get hurt in the qualifying round vs joe johnson

SF: how would lebron not dominate that? melo and durant cant guard him, plus he wouldnt be able to pass in the game winning situation!

PF:probably the most wide open one, id take Timmy if there werent playing on back to back, but since they are i think it would be either kevin love or lamarcus aldrige

C:this would be an amazing battle between dwight and bynum, ultimately dwight would win after he insults bynum's mom and bynum goes postal, elbowing the much smaller joey crawford, ripping off his shirt and storming off the court as he high fives the rappers at courtside
 
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