W/L Record: QB stat or not?

[USArmyVet]

NFL players, coaches, scouts and execs universally agree that Dak’s a top 10 NFL QB.

There’s a reason, whether you see it or not. They know more than you or I do.

Dak may in fact be in the Top 10 of NFL QB's, most likely in the 8-10 range, but my point was that something is still missing with him and that is either something to do with him or his surroundings but the consistency just isn't there against teams outside the NFC Least.

 

[USArmyVet]

Hahahahahahahaahaha

So the Seattle game (a win) doesn’t count because Dak didn’t put up huge numbers. Oh, and Seattle was “subpar” for some reason.

And the Packers game (a loss) doesn’t count because we lost, despite Dak’s great numbers.

Nice consistency. So there’s literally nothing Dak can do to please you. Even when he wins, he still lost in your eyes.


Care to establish the fact that you either LIED or grossly exaggerated when you said we need to hold teams to “14 points or less” to win?

As if Dak’s Trent Dilfer and not the guy who led the #1 offense in terms of yards and points last year?

Of course not. This is why you people get laughed at.

While Dak's overall game stats vs. GB were good (24 of 38 for 302 yards 3 td's 1 int), Dallas was down 28-13 with 2:19 remaining in the 3rd quarter.

In the remaining 3rd quarter and entire 4th quarter, Dallas had 3 offensive possessions which resulted in 2 TD's and 1 FG. Dak's stats were the following: 13 of 17 for 143 yards 2 td


Prior to those last 3 drives, Dallas had 5 offensive drives which resulted in 1 TD, 1 FG, 2 Punts, and 1 INT. Dak's stats for those series were the following: 11 of 21 for 159 yards 1 TD 1 INT


Now we all know that Dallas tied the game up late in the 4th only to see GB quickly move within FG position for the win in the final seconds. However, for almost 3 quarters Dak did not play very well and had Dallas in a 28-13 deficit as a result of his play.
While clearly not all Dak's fault and obviously his play dramatically improved the last 3 possessions, there are numerous instances where Dak seems to not pick things up in his play until late in the game and unfortunately Dallas can't place themselves in that kind of position.
The running game has to improve to keep opposing offenses off the field, the defense has to stall opposing offenses, but Dak also has to pick up his play to avoid these scenarios.

Dak has the ability but he simply has to put all the pieces together and elevate himself and the team into a legitimate contender.

 

[Hadenough]

Win Loss record is a QB stat because the QB is the most important player on the field. Most teams go as the QB goes. Dakota has a great record against tomatoes cans and the losses usually come against contenders.

 

[Hadenough]

Dak may in fact be in the Top 10 of NFL QB's, most likely in the 8-10 range, but my point was that something is still missing with him and that is either something to do with him or his surroundings but the consistency just isn't there against teams outside the NFC Least.

In every sport you have guys like Dak. They mop the floor with weak opponents and looks so good that you just can't understand how they could look so bad against stronger talent. Personally I think Dak gets 110% out of his talent but his talent is about 80% compared to the better league QBs.
He doesn't have the arm strength to throw the ball accurately with velocity. Anyone that has ever thrown a baseball knows that the harder you try and throw the ball the more wild you get. Sure Dak can throw hard but his effort level is much higher than many other QBs. That's where playing a better team who gives you less time and smaller windows becomes a factor.

 

[Doomsday101]

It’s pretty simple, but I see CZ members struggle with this mightily on a regular basis.

IF YOU BELIEVE W/L RECORD IS A QB STAT:

Dak is 53-32 in the regular season and 1-3 in the playoffs. Those are his records, period. You don’t get to take away his great regular season record and only blame him for the playoff record. Nor can you credit him for the regular season record without blaming him for the playoff record.

IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE W/L RECORD IS A QB STAT:

You can’t blame Dak for the 1-3 playoff record, just like you can’t credit him for the 53-32 regular season record. Those are TEAM stats.

Thanks, and go Bills tonight!

Is a pitcher in baseball is given wins and loses but as we know there is more to the game than pitching alone.

 

[Havic]

W/L is a team stat but the QB is impacted the most by it and is judged by it much more heavily besides of course the head coach.

 

[Insomniac]

QB W/L is a stat. The question is how meaningful it is. For a single year I don't think it means much of anything. OTOH if you look over a players entire career it can tell you something about the quality of the player. Anything less than 10 years probably doesn't tell you much, except in extreme cases.

There are plenty of times I watched games that a team won and it wouldn't matter if the QB was Peyton Manning or Archie Manning. I've also seen plenty of games where the team won because of a great performance by the QB.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Wins and losses are a legitimate QB stat for starting QBs.

Kinda similar to starting pitchers in baseball, although they can get a no decision as well.

wins and losses are a team stat. That is a fact.

Wins and losses for pitchers is also dumb.

 

[CowboyRoy]

QB W/L is a stat. The question is how meaningful it is. For a single year I don't think it means much of anything. OTOH if you look over a players entire career it can tell you something about the quality of the player. Anything less than 10 years probably doesn't tell you much, except in extreme cases.

There are plenty of times I watched games that a team won and it wouldn't matter if the QB was Peyton Manning or Archie Manning. I've also seen plenty of games where the team won because of a great performance by the QB.

totally meaningless and worthless stat.

 

[CowboyRoy]

QB W/L is a stat. The question is how meaningful it is. For a single year I don't think it means much of anything. OTOH if you look over a players entire career it can tell you something about the quality of the player. Anything less than 10 years probably doesn't tell you much, except in extreme cases.

There are plenty of times I watched games that a team won and it wouldn't matter if the QB was Peyton Manning or Archie Manning. I've also seen plenty of games where the team won because of a great performance by the QB.

chances are, if the QB had a great game that plenty of other people had to have a great game in order to put that QB in position to do his job well and or to win the game.

 

[Nav22]

chances are, if the QB had a great game that plenty of other people had to have a great game in order to put that QB in position to do his job well and or to win the game.

Not saying I disagree with the premise that it’s not a QB stat, but what you expressed here doesn’t explain why there’s such a strong correlation between how good a QB is and how good their career W/L record is.

The exact same supporting cast can go 13-4 with a great QB... or 4-13 if that great QB is out for the season.

 

[DallasInDC]

Win, loss is a QB stat and has been for decades.

Rodger 94-37
Danny 62-30
Tony 92-64
Dak 54-35

Just curious...why did you leave Troy out?

 

[jterrell]

You can't say QB wins isn't a thing then call Brady the GOAT for winning all those titles.
QB wins not being the ONLY thing doesn't mean it isn't A THING.

Coaches and QBs are paid to win games, period.

That hardly means every QB sucks who has little no playoff success. Good players elevate teams but the expectation is hardly to cure all of a teams woes.
Its all part of the equation as you evaluate players.

At some point a smart analyst will create a metric like expected Wins. And QBs will very much be rated by how they perform versus other QBs in wins over expectation.

 

[bonafidebanter]

If FG kickers make a game winning FG, do they get the W? If they miss the game winning FG do they get the L? Am I doing it right?

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Just curious...why did you leave Troy out?

I thought I put him in there.

94-71 Troy.

 

[Runwildboys]

It's just not simple enough to call it one or the other. As has been said, a QB can get a team over the hump or vice versa... or a QB can blow a game while the rest of the team played well, or vice versa.

 

[Brax]

wins and losses are a team stat. That is a fact.

Wins and losses for pitchers is also dumb.

Only in your mind, HC have the same stat attached to them. Keep making believe it isn't so doesn't make it so. What the stat means just like so many others are open to debate to what they actually mean, you know like garbage time stats.

 

[DandyDon52]

Then Dak’s 53-32 regular season record counts as HIS record.

You don’t get to blame him for the playoff losses while pretending the stellar regular season record has nothing to do with him.

Ok Dak has a good, not stellar regular season record.

But he has been in a weak div for most of his career. Rodgers also has been in a weak div most of his career, so they both
have more wins than they would if they had been in a better div, like nfc or afc west are now.

Playoff wins / records are more telling because they are playing the best teams for that year, and that is what counts is how a qb does
against the better teams. Even in regular season, how do they do against the teams that wind up in the playoffs that year?

Last year dak lost to all the better teams, and then lost the first playoff game and it wasnt close until the end and then it was a joke
how that game ended.

So to go just by overall records is not accurate way to judge any qb, you have to discount the games against the weaker teams,
and look how they do against the good teams.
problem is nfl doesnt keep those records, they are ignored for the most part.

What a team or qb does in the playoffs is very telling about how good they really are, and that includes the coaches, all players, and qb.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

It’s pretty simple, but I see CZ members struggle with this mightily on a regular basis.

IF YOU BELIEVE W/L RECORD IS A QB STAT:

Dak is 53-32 in the regular season and 1-3 in the playoffs. Those are his records, period. You don’t get to take away his great regular season record and only blame him for the playoff record. Nor can you credit him for the regular season record without blaming him for the playoff record.

IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE W/L RECORD IS A QB STAT:

You can’t blame Dak for the 1-3 playoff record, just like you can’t credit him for the 53-32 regular season record. Those are TEAM stats.

Thanks, and go Bills tonight!

depends, if it's a Cowboy QB, it is a QB stat unless you are Troy Aikman, then it is a team one. If you are Aaron Rodgers, the playoff record is his when he wins but when he loses, it's on the team. Rest of the NFL, it is not a QB stat...

 

[DallasInDC]

I thought I put him in there.

94-71 Troy.

I think it's pretty amazing that we have had 5 QBs with each over 57% winning % spanning 633 games.

Honestly I was shocked that Troy has the lowest winning percentage of all 5 (of course the 1-15 season didn't help). But he more than made it up with his post season success. Roger with 72% is pretty amazing.

Despite Romo's and Dak's different strengths and weaknesses, and many of the same types of challenges (coaching and poor defenses), their winning percentages, both in the regular season and post season, are almost identical