W/L Record: QB stat or not?

[DandyDon52]

While I agree that w/l stats are not all on the qb, the qb can influence the outcome of a game more than any other player.
Especially in big games, and playoffs.
Now coaching and gameplans can help or hurt a qb in how he does, so that is a factor. Other players have to also play better than avg also.

But the qb is the central piece.If he does good in all areas, his team will have a much better chance of winning, and if he plays poorly, then
it is very hard for his team to win.
And then factor in defense and ST's too, a qb may play great and still lose cause his defense cant stop the other team. or ST gives up points etc.
Both dak and romo have endured some bad defense's on their team which held them back from winning games that they might have with a better defense.

But QB's can win or lose games, I remember a texan team where in a playoff game hoyer threw 5 int !! and you cant win when your qb does that.
Well Romo did one time, but that was romo lol.

A QB can
run with the ball at key moments to help keep a drive going or score td.
have his passes be accurate most of the time.
Find the open guys and get the ball to them accurately
no low or high passes, or behind the guy
get rid of ball or do whatever to avoid sacks, especially when your in FG range !
Dont turn ball over ! int's or fumbles
Be a smart qb, read the field, how many times has dak got the ball snapped to catch defense with 12 men on field like rodgers does? 0 !!
On the last play in SF game was dak a smart QB? in that moment no he wasnt, more like a amatuer.
This is one example where coaching can help or hurt, and coaching was real bad for that game , they even handed the ball to the center in practice
and coaches thought that was the way to do it!! lol

Being a very good to great qb isnt easy, it is very hard and at times complicated and it helps to be very prepared mentally for each game.
That is why brady has done so well, he works hard on preparing, so he knows what to do in every situation,and it is a lot of work.

Dak is smart guy off the field, but on the field his IQ seems to drop, and the more pressure he is under it tends to drop even lower.
And by pressure I mean by the DL and the rush, he handles being behind in score ok..
He doesnt throw a lot of ints, and hasnt had too many fumbles, but he makes other mistakes.

Overall he is good qb, but inconsistent, not quite as smart/prepared as he needs to be, and not a good leader.
I think other players like him, he is popular, but that isnt the same as being a great leader.
Adlib things plays, is another area he is weak in, he needs to be better in that area, he seems to just do what he is told most of the time.

But in closing QB's can win or lose games, because they play such a pivitol role. It isnt all on them either way, but they can turn a game into a win
or a loss.

 

[DandyDon52]

I think it's pretty amazing that we have had 5 QBs with each over 57% winning % spanning 633 games.

Honestly I was shocked that Troy has the lowest winning percentage of all 5 (of course the 1-15 season didn't help). But he more than made it up with his post season success. Roger with 72% is pretty amazing.

Despite Romo's and Dak's different strengths and weaknesses, and many of the same types of challenges (coaching and poor defenses), their winning percentages, both in the regular season and post season, are almost identical

great qb's are the ones who are great in the playoffs, forget reg season, it is the playoffs that matter.
Troy was great in playoffs especially the first 2 SB runs with jimmy.

Eli was great in playoffs, he played great in his 2 SB runs. His team mates also played great, so did troys, and both had vg defenses too.
And very good coaching.

Dak and Romo never had the good defenses, dak did last year though, and both have had some lame coaches.
Hard to overcome lame coaching.

 

[Flamma]

It’s pretty simple, but I see CZ members struggle with this mightily on a regular basis.

IF YOU BELIEVE W/L RECORD IS A QB STAT:

Dak is 53-32 in the regular season and 1-3 in the playoffs. Those are his records, period. You don’t get to take away his great regular season record and only blame him for the playoff record. Nor can you credit him for the regular season record without blaming him for the playoff record.

IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE W/L RECORD IS A QB STAT:

You can’t blame Dak for the 1-3 playoff record, just like you can’t credit him for the 53-32 regular season record. Those are TEAM stats.

Thanks, and go Bills tonight!

I don't believe it's a stat and never once have I brought up his playoff record.

 

[DallasInDC]

great qb's are the ones who are great in the playoffs, forget reg season, it is the playoffs that matter.
Troy was great in playoffs especially the first 2 SB runs with jimmy.

Eli was great in playoffs, he played great in his 2 SB runs. His team mates also played great, so did troys, and both had vg defenses too.
And very good coaching.

Dak and Romo never had the good defenses, dak did last year though, and both have had some lame coaches.
Hard to overcome lame coaching.

Troy had great post season success, but he also had arguably one of the top 10-12 rosters of all time along with top 10 coaching staff of all time.

I would never mention Eli and great QB in the same sentence.

It's unfortunate that Romo and Dak who have enough talentbto win it all are hamstrung by GM and coaching decisions. Especially, considering the lack of draft status.

 

[RonnieT24]

W/L has always been a team stat. Turning it into a QB stat has been the work of mediots. We've all seen games when the QB plays his arse off but the rest of the team lets him down and we've all seen games when the QB plays like crap but other parts of the team picks him up. By and large Dak has had relative few stinkers over the course of his career. Which is why his teams generally have been in a position to win games. But until the two QBs meet in the octagon to decide the outcome I will always ignore the whole QB W/L record thing. Especially in the playoffs Dak has been the better QB in all 4 of the games. He outplayed Rodgers in 2016 and he outplayed Russ and Goff in 2018. And though he didn't have a good game against the 49ers.. Garapollo had an even worse game. He just had more help.

TEAM game.. always has been.. always will be.

 

[DandyDon52]

I would never mention Eli and great QB in the same sentence.

Well I watched both his SB runs, and he did play very good in those playoff games.
To be great QB you dont have to be great all the time, just when it really counts, like on those runs.

And yeah troy had it all, which helped him alot, but he always turned it up a notch or 2 once in playoffs, and played much better
than he did in reg season.

 

[USArmyVet]

W/L has always been a team stat. Turning it into a QB stat has been the work of mediots. We've all seen games when the QB plays his arse off but the rest of the team lets him down and we've all seen games when the QB plays like crap but other parts of the team picks him up. By and large Dak has had relative few stinkers over the course of his career. Which is why his teams generally have been in a position to win games. But until the two QBs meet in the octagon to decide the outcome I will always ignore the whole QB W/L record thing. Especially in the playoffs Dak has been the better QB in all 4 of the games. He outplayed Rodgers in 2016 and he outplayed Russ and Goff in 2018. And though he didn't have a good game against the 49ers.. Garapollo had an even worse game. He just had more help.

TEAM game.. always has been.. always will be.

Saying Dak has had few stinkers in his career and outplayed opposing QB's in the playoffs is an interesting take.

As for the W/L not being a QB stat, then I presume those touting Dak's regular season record will be discounted in their debate then.

 

[LittleD]

QB's make the HOF based on SB wins or SB appearances. That is the only real stat that matters. QB's are similar to field generals. They must be the
leader that makes the whole team successful. That's why good ones get the big bucks. Dak ain't that and never will be. Allen, Burrow, Mahomes, Rogers, & the GOAT Brady continue to shove Dak way down the rabbit hole.

 

[CowboyFrog]

QB's make the HOF based on SB wins or SB appearances. That is the only real stat that matters. QB's are similar to field generals. They must be the
leader that makes the whole team successful. That's why good ones get the big bucks. Dak ain't that and never will be. Allen, Burrow, Mahomes, Rogers, & the GOAT Brady continue to shove Dak way down the rabbit hole.

not that i disagree that Allen and Burrow are going to be great...maybe let them win a SB before touting them in your SB wins are all that matter for a QB post....Burrow made it and lets see what happenes next so far Allen has not.

 

[RonnieT24]

Saying Dak has had few stinkers in his career and outplayed opposing QB's in the playoffs is an interesting take.

As for the W/L not being a QB stat, then I presume those touting Dak's regular season record will be discounted in their debate then.

Saying that Dak has had relatively few stinkers in his career is not a take.. It's a fact. He has had more 100+ passer rating games than sub 70 by a good margin. He has had the better passer rating than the opponent in each of his playoff appearances except ironically in the one he won against Seattle. But the main arbiter of how he has played is not numbers.. If you watched the games, you could see which QB was the better player that day. The real issue was that Dak was facing an opponent with a good defense. Generally speaking the opposing QB wasn't. W/L record, passer rating, all of it goes into the equation. Sometimes Dak has played phenomenally and sometimes he has played okay.. and sometimes he has played like crap. We all watch and we all see.. What we think of it depends on the lens through which we see it. Dak is not the best QB in the NFL. He may never be.. but he is getting better every year he is in the league and even if he never improves another iota he is already more than good enough to get this team to where it needs to be provided the team stops handicapping him with idiot play calling and some questionable personnel decisions. We know this to be true because there have been a dozen QBs not nearly as good as Dak to win the Super Bowl.. so any assertion that he is "not good enough" is pure garbage. What has not been good enough has been the team around him. Let's hope that changes this year.

 

[LittleD]

not that i disagree that Allen and Burrow are going to be great...maybe let them win a SB before touting them in your SB wins are all that matter for a QB post....Burrow made it and lets see what happenes next so far Allen has not.

Allen, Mahomes and Burrow are the future for NFL QB's.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Allen, Mahomes and Burrow are the future for NFL QB's.

They will be in the group of good QB's for a while for sure, there will be others also.

 

[LittleD]

They will be in the group of good QB's for a while for sure, there will be others also.

Dak had his shot 5 years ago and showed his metal. Dak is another in a line of failed QB's who get paid and can't deliver.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Dak had his shot 5 years ago and showed his metal. Dak is another in a line of failed QB's who get paid and can't deliver.

If SB is the only deliver goal there will be a long list of paid QB's who fail

 

[LittleD]

If SB is the only deliver goal there will be a long list of paid QB's who fail

There has been and will always be.

 

[Nav22]

QB's make the HOF based on SB wins or SB appearances. That is the only real stat that matters. QB's are similar to field generals. They must be the
leader that makes the whole team successful. That's why good ones get the big bucks. Dak ain't that and never will be. Allen, Burrow, Mahomes, Rogers, & the GOAT Brady continue to shove Dak way down the rabbit hole.

You left out the great Matthew Stafford. Josh Allen’s never been to a Super Bowl.

So Stafford shoved Josh Allen way down the rabbit hole after last year, right?

Joe Flacco and Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer and Eli Manning... those guys are all superior to Josh Allen as of now too, right?

“DURRR NO THAT DOESN’T COUNT!!!“

 

[LittleD]

You left out the great Matthew Stafford. Josh Allen’s never been to a Super Bowl.

So Stafford shoved Josh Allen way down the rabbit hole after last year, right?

Joe Flacco and Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer and Eli Manning... those guys are all superior to Josh Allen as of now too, right?

“DURRR NO THAT DOESN’T COUNT!!!“

Well, it's an ironclad fact that Stafford is light years better than Dak...

 

[Nav22]

Well, it's an ironclad fact that Stafford is light years better than Dak...

Was that the case even before the 2021 season?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Dak may in fact be in the Top 10 of NFL QB's, most likely in the 8-10 range, but my point was that something is still missing with him and that is either something to do with him or his surroundings but the consistency just isn't there against teams outside the NFC Least.

Whats missing is obvious. A good Oline. Directly related to consistency.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You can't say QB wins isn't a thing then call Brady the GOAT for winning all those titles.
QB wins not being the ONLY thing doesn't mean it isn't A THING.

Coaches and QBs are paid to win games, period.

That hardly means every QB sucks who has little no playoff success. Good players elevate teams but the expectation is hardly to cure all of a teams woes.
Its all part of the equation as you evaluate players.

At some point a smart analyst will create a metric like expected Wins. And QBs will very much be rated by how they perform versus other QBs in wins over expectation.

QB definitely matters. Just look at Dak. Without Dak we were 6-10. With Dak the next year we were 12-5. Definitely matters. But when you play the best teams and in the playoffs, most teams have a great QB. So it becomes a battle of teams around the QB and coaching.