Was Frederick Worth a First Round Pick?

GimmeTheBall!

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Yes, it's subjective, but objectively, every legit draft site I encountered had him ranked as the best center prospect.

Then that is good news for the pessimists. If Frederick the giant is held in that regard, then good. If he and T Smith develop into 1st-pick worthy O linemen then the future looks awful good.
Me, I will wait until the end of the season to assess the lads. Making assumptions this early (me included) is futile, but for the enjoyment of discussion football I, like many here, stated my opinion.
 

rjbane

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The Bengals were in a similar situation last year at guard. Everyone thought they should take De Castro early in the draft, instead they traded back for Kevin Zeitler at 27. Kevin wasn't as athletic, but he was a "technician with great strength". Also the Wisconsin background was seen as a plus by the Bengals. Sound familiar?

De Castro blew out his knee and wasn't effective when he did play, while Zeitler is considered one of the Bengals best linemen, played at near a pro bowl level, and is considered one of up-and-coming guards in the league. Here is a short article on it:
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/7/1...ls-of-2013-no-9-offensive-guard-kevin-zeitler

So what does this mean for Frederick? Nothing really, just some interesting parallels between similar players.
 

dwmyers

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First, I clearly am not advocating pure bpa. As I said, relative to your current team and scheme. But there it is never a good idea to say "we must have this position" or "we must have this player" unless you are a true contender with a short window, and even then it's questionable.

You're arguing a general principle in a field where the specifics are everything. It's a bit like the old chess saw that occupying the center is a good thing. In the 19th century, it was good advice. Get to the mid 20th century, and there are plenty of defenses that give up some center control for dynamic piece play.

Go back to that draft. It was a weak draft. There was a run on guards, and the one safety who looked good was gone by the time we drafted. In fact, people were tweeting that Dallas was trading down the moment the top safety dropped off the board. We needed an interior lineman and he was the best available. What's so hard to "get" about that?

The one thing I notice about the bits and pieces of real draft boards that I see is that they are far more diverse than the consensus-driven narrative that comes from listening to too many television and mail order draft pundits. They tend to hedge their bets by splitting the difference with each other and further, modifying their genuine opinions to match what rumors they hear out of various front offices.

For that matter, look at the general reaction to Seattle Seahawks drafts over the past few years by those self same pundits. You would think that team not fit for the washroom, much less considered one of the top three or four teams in the NFC.

It's all about building a team, and it's not about scoring 95% on Mel Kiper's post draft "value" chart. After all, wasn't he the one who said we missed out when we didn't draft Shawn Merriman?

If the guy plays with us for 10 years at a solid starter level, we won. It's that simple. If we get some All-Po years out of him, then it is gravy.

D-
 

hra8700

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You're arguing a general principle in a field where the specifics are everything. It's a bit like the old chess saw that occupying the center is a good thing. In the 19th century, it was good advice. Get to the mid 20th century, and there are plenty of defenses that give up some center control for dynamic piece play.

Go back to that draft. It was a weak draft. There was a run on guards, and the one safety who looked good was gone by the time we drafted. In fact, people were tweeting that Dallas was trading down the moment the top safety dropped off the board. We needed an interior lineman and he was the best available. What's so hard to "get" about that?

The one thing I notice about the bits and pieces of real draft boards that I see is that they are far more diverse than the consensus-driven narrative that comes from listening to too many television and mail order draft pundits. They tend to hedge their bets by splitting the difference with each other and further, modifying their genuine opinions to match what rumors they hear out of various front offices.

For that matter, look at the general reaction to Seattle Seahawks drafts over the past few years by those self same pundits. You would think that team not fit for the washroom, much less considered one of the top three or four teams in the NFC.

It's all about building a team, and it's not about scoring 95% on Mel Kiper's post draft "value" chart. After all, wasn't he the one who said we missed out when we didn't draft Shawn Merriman?

If the guy plays with us for 10 years at a solid starter level, we won. It's that simple. If we get some All-Po years out of him, then it is gravy.

D-

1. You're trying to make a very silly argument against "general principles"...there isnt an area of human pursuit in existence that can be performed rationally in the absence of guiding principles that allow you to maneuver through the specifics. The general principles I laid out are both incredibly broad and directed at a universal goal: winning.

2. The second half of your post is a straw man trying to compare me to people who get mad at draft picks pundits dont agree with. My comments are based on the cowboys own draft board.

3. You seem to think our only choices were safety and interior oline...are you jerry jones? Just because a draft is weak doesnt mean you have to just draft for need. If you start with that plan you have to be willing to adjust in case a top player falls to you as it did in our case.

4. Youre just repeating party line about 10 year starter. We dont know frederick will be that. It also wouldnt be a win IF ratliff has a career ending injury game 1 and Floyd is an all pro. But you cant look at things in retrospect. In real life the situation is you chose the #21 player on your board and the #74 pick and jay ratliff this year and the. 2 more years at 7.25 million a year for 2 years at age 33 and 34 over the #5 player on your board and phil costa and ratliff this year and 7 million dollars a year to sign a FA center for the next 2 years. There are of course many many other scenarios. But thats the most likely. Each scenario has to be given a probability, each a total value, and then you use those to make a decision.
 

KB1122

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Has looked good so far. That said, if your No. 5 player is sitting at 18, you don't trade down for a center.
 
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